Yep, just saw him today help a sounthbound mixed freight up the hill
QUOTE: Originally posted by nscnotp The 1st Dst CNOTP has a hill helper which will push a train up Erlanger Hill from Cincinnati. Mostly the 4000hp units are used to help the train up the hill to the crest at Erlanger Depot.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by rvos1979 I'm not sure if the CN still does this, account I haven't been that way in a while, but the Wisconsin Central used to occasionally use pushers on Hawthorne hill out of Superior and Byron hill out of Fond du Lac. Usually on Byron Hill, a yard job out of Shops yard in FDL would use whatever was available, from SD45s to SW1200/SW1500 switchers. Randy [:)] I'm trying to picture a group of SW1200s in pusher duty out of Superior. That's a BIG hill.
QUOTE: Originally posted by rvos1979 I'm not sure if the CN still does this, account I haven't been that way in a while, but the Wisconsin Central used to occasionally use pushers on Hawthorne hill out of Superior and Byron hill out of Fond du Lac. Usually on Byron Hill, a yard job out of Shops yard in FDL would use whatever was available, from SD45s to SW1200/SW1500 switchers. Randy
Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
QUOTE: Originally posted by Mark_W._Hemphill QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding How would converting to distributed power eliminate the need for pushers? Wouldn't you still have the same horsepower trying to pull the same tonnage over the same grade? Murph: You're absolutely right -- it still requires the same amount of horsepower/ton to overcome gravity. However, "pushers/helpers" in U.S. railroad practice *usually* means "manned," whereas DP is not manned. By converting to DP, the "helper is eliminated," that is, the expense of the crew is eliminated. So when someone at a U.S. railroad says "We instituted DP on the big hill last week and got rid of the helpers," everyone at the railroad knows what he means -- we got rid of the engine crews running the helper. I apologize that the industry at times uses distinctions that from the outside might seem arbitrary and semantic, and this is one of them. It's worth noting that converting from manned helpers to DP is a complex economic calcuation. In many cases, it's not worth it. The geography of eastern U.S. railroads tends to make manned helpers less expensive than DP -- on a given heavy tonnage route in the east, the hills tend to be short and there are few of them. On western U.S. railroads tend to have longer hills and there are more of them en route, which favors DP. Eliminating manned helpers eliminates the cost of the crew that mans them, as well as any support facilities for the helper and crew (which tend to be in the middle of nowhere and thus are expensive), but adding DP often runs up locomotive hours per train hour and can give you very poor locomotive utilization -- on some routes where DP is used, much of the time the DP unit is just loafing along. Plus, cutting the DP in and out is a challenge. If it's done at a major terminal, the train is occupying a through track or long lead while the power is shuffled on and off, which can deeply affect yard fluidity. If it's done at a minor terminal, the road crew has to do it, which means they'll need a van and 30-90 minutes, which affects their hours (often putting them over their 12 hour limit) and of course the train performance is deeply degraded. All of this has to be assessed before you make the decision. It's not an easy calculation because a lot of the effects won't show themselves before you make the switch, and often you have to go out and try it for awhile to see what happens. Mark
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding How would converting to distributed power eliminate the need for pushers? Wouldn't you still have the same horsepower trying to pull the same tonnage over the same grade?
QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas Things have changed for the better on that line now . After the SP-UP merger BNSF got the UPs portion between Keddie and Beiber and fixed it up. The Beiber to K-falls section was kept in tip top shape even through the darkest hours. With a good route to compete with UP and I-5 for the north / south traffic things started picking up in the late 90s. These days it's common for there to be 6 trains or more a day EACH WAY on the inside gateway. And Amtrak occasionaly detours the starlight on this route too. They also ran a roadrailer train on the inside gateway for a while, But they axed it and sent the equiptment back east about a year ago. As to the DPU question, They probably cut them in at Klamath and Stockton, although I have seen them come out of Vancouver with DPUs (I used to live in the george). The line north of Klamath is relativly flat and they don't need the extra power like they do on the exWP and the FRC. As a side note they still use cabooses on the Oregon Trunk on some manifests because this is dark territory and they have to line there switches behind them. BNSF also has track rights on the overland. So you might be seeing trains from the east too, but there main pair of overland trains are running on Donner because of the Reno local traffic (That's getting to be a respectable amount from what I hear). But if we are talking stack trains they are north / south as BNSF has a better eastward route from the bay area / San Joaquin valley in there transcon to the south.
Quentin
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