What is really wrong with GE Dash 7's?

[BNSF_GP60M]

It seems like all the Class railroads have gotten rid of their Dash 7's. Besides BNSF's B23-7 and rare SF30B it seems that no one has any. Also somone said that Dash 8's are also on the chopping block.

[Anonymous]

EPA Regs are making the older units a thing of the past on the class 1s...

LC

[CShaveRR]

Sheer age isn't doing a bad job of it, either. Most of these are over 20 years old now, and although there are some Da***wos that are 30 or better, 20 seems to be a long lifetime for GEs (remember when EMD expected you to trade in 15-year-old cab units on GP30s and GP35s?).

[trainboyH16-44]

Apart from the fact that they're ugly, I think microprocessor technology has advanced so much as to make them obsolete in everything bout being ugly.
Still, they're better looking than -9s!
Trainboy

[Philcal]

Don't know if it's applicable, but a year or two ago."Trains" ran an article on a used locomotive auction, I believe it was in Los Angeles.Bottom line. EMD units all found new homes with shortlines and other railroad activities. GE's went for scrap. Even today, I keep reading of crews having to brace vibrating control consoles on current GE models. EMD hasn't done the marketing job of late that GE has, but many will still say it's a better locomotive.

[arbfbe]

GE's C30-7 was the first locomotive that was truely competitive with current EMD production. While the U30Cs were good pullers the lacked reliability over the long run. EMD's SD40 and SD40-2 units are like the drum beating bunny, they just keep going. The engine, main generator and traction motors of the U boats were pretty rugged but the wheel slip system and anciliary electronics and components were pretty weak. When the -7 line came out, it was GE's attempt to make a locomotive as rugged as the SD40-2 and in many ways they succeeded pretty well.

One of the reasons EMDs go on and on is the supply of aftermarket parts. Railroads can buy refurbished engines, generators and traction motors from a number of suppliers. GE has offered liberal trade in terms especially on old GE units to sell new units and thus control the worn out parts market. So rather than these parts getting refurbished by third parties and made available on the open market they get torched. this means anyone who wants to rebuild a GE loco must buy parts from GE. But GE will make a liberal offer on a trade in of the units you want to rebuild so there has never been a series of GE rebuild programs. Whem the 15 year lease for the units is up, the railroads have to either buy the units or return them to the leasor. Buying out the EMDs and rebuilding them makes sense but buying out the GEs and undergoing an expensive program to rebuild them comes up short against trade in terms GE will be offering.

I asked on regional railroad CMO why he didn't buy used C30-7 locos when BN was turning them back and he was paying a premium for SD45 and SD45-2 units and his response was, "because they will not let me hire enough people to keep the GE's running." That probably sums it up as much as anything.

[icmr]

I think NS has some dash 7's left.



ICMR

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[fuzzybroken]

Adding to the comments above, there are a couple operations that are buying/have bought used GE locomotives, including the Nashville & Eastern, Lake Superior & Ishpeming (which has never owned an EMD), and Maine Montreal & Atlantic. But the buyers of used EMDs is much, much larger!

[oltmannd]

The FDL engine is a pain to work on and expensive compared to a 645. You need a lot more specialty tools and the parts cost more. The economics favor EMDs in light duty service because of this.

Another factor is that Dash 7s have a propensity toward having their cabs rust out. Not a killer, but something else to factor in when making economic decisions.

[Anonymous]

from experience working with Dash 7's I can say this:

My employer spent more money bringing used Dash 7's up to snuff than they were worth.

They tend to slip badly under load and are thus unreliable in the mountains

Their computers fail time and time again

they rust

their wiring harnesses are chock full of asbestos

You can have them!

[SALfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fuzzybroken

Adding to the comments above, there are a couple operations that are buying/have bought used GE locomotives, including the Nashville & Eastern, Lake Superior & Ishpeming (which has never owned an EMD), and Maine Montreal & Atlantic. But the buyers of used EMDs is much, much larger!

The Georgia Central also bought used GE's, but I don't know what flavor. They looked like the smaller ones, to me.

[Randy Stahl]

What is "wrong "with the dash 7 ? Lets start with the shaft driven radiator /dynamic brake fan. The angle drive is an item that requires maintenence, if not backlash will destroy air compressor drive grommets and possibly throw a shaft. The dash 8 corrected this problem but then GE installed a motor driven air compresser (can't win)
You MUST have an overhead crane if you are to maintain a GE locomotive, this fact alone is enough to keep them off of many shortlines. A GE power assembly is approx 600 lbs and the head , liner, and water jacket are one part, unlike the EMD that has the head seperate from the liner .
One of my biggest GE pet peeves is the generator exitation system, The GE has an exiter that gets exited and is connected directly to the main gen, in order to correct a wheelslip you reduce current to the exiter which in turn reduces main gen output. If it sounds like a slow process, it is. with high horsepower locomotives a wheel slip has to be corrected very quickly or the engine may not recover, like NAR guy wrote about 7s slipping. EMD controls main gen out put via SCRs very fast reacting.
The weakest link on the FDL engine is the bonded drive. This is the main accessory drive gear link, when this rubber laminated gear fails , the engine loses oil pressure, a bad thing for mechanical parts. To GEs credit the rod and main bearings are aluminium, if a bearing fails there is a good chance the crankshaft can be saved by peeling the aluminium off. With an EMD bearing , steel /babbit you may be replacing a crankshaft. The FDL engine , when it is maintained correctly is very reliable, the GE power assembly will last longer than the EMD.
A GE locomotive has a dry radiator system, in other words the raditors are dry until actually needed, EMD radiators are "wet" all the time. A big problem with GEs is the fact that since the radiators are dry, any water trapped in the radiators in the freezing cold will freeze. Therefore if you overfill a GE with water , you will trap water in the rads and ruin them.
There are many good things about the GE locomotive, there are many things that could have been better, EMD suffers the same calamity, bottom line is they need to listen to the customer.
Randy