Employment probation and union dues

[Anonymous]

When someone starts working for the railroad, how long does probation last? Also, how much are union dues for conductor and engineer?

[UP_North]

I'm sure all railroads are different and so are the union locals, but in my area on the UP probation is 120 days and union dues are about 100 dollars a month.

[Rodney Beck]

The probation is 60 days and dues usualy depend on the yard local rate.

Rodney

[Anonymous]

Speaking of unions and dues,

I tend to be anti- union, but I don't have a lot of information about them.

Do you feel that, if the union were to go away tomorrow, that the Railroad would drop your pay (no time limit on when) to where you would make significantly less?

In other words, do you feel that the $100 a month is getting you more money? Keep in mind, that fewer hours also count towards more money.

I'm just anti-union in the present day. They were needed and did a good job in the past, keeping the large corporations in line, but I feel that now a days the same can be accomplished with media attention and lawsuits.

James

[arbfbe]

inflammable,
Compare the wage rates on a non-union shortline with those on a class one. Now compare the wages on the non-union shortline with those at Wal-Mart. Without the unions, wages on the class 1 railroads would be about what the wages are at Wal-Mart. Same level of benefits as well. The same problems of working off the clock.

Make a ruckus in the media without the union to go to bat for you and you will quickly be out in the street and be blacklisted from furthur railroad employment. File a lawsuit under which law? Without the union to take your message to Congress, watch decades of safety and labor legislation go out the window in short order.

Want proof? Just hire out on the railroad and see how things work and then ask yourself if the railroad management has your best interests at heart.

[Anonymous]

Here it is 60 days probation as well. Dues depend upon which local but $100 is about right.

Unfortunately, both sides in the Union/Management wars have their ups and downs. On the Class 1s the systems now in place have developed over decades. They have good points and bad depending upon choices made years ago.

I don't trust management, I will never trust a union rep above my Local Chairman as I have seen how they work too. It is still every man for himself in a lot of ways...

LC

[Rodney Beck]

Amen to that lc.

Rodney

[88gta350]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UP_North

I'm sure all railroads are different and so are the union locals, but in my area on the UP probation is 120 days and union dues are about 100 dollars a month.

yikes, here (non railroad) dues are 2 hours pay per month. Pay depends on seniority but is about $18/hr on average, so dues come to about $36/month. Are railroad dues based on pay rate or is an arbitrary number picked? $100/month seems high, but maybe we're just really low? What's average dues in other industries, anyone know?

[UP_North]

In my local dues are 100 dollars a month for everyone. It doesn't matter whether it is a new hire working at a reduced rate or an employee working at full union rate.

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe

inflammable,
Compare the wage rates on a non-union shortline with those on a class one. Now compare the wages on the non-union shortline with those at Wal-Mart. Without the unions, wages on the class 1 railroads would be about what the wages are at Wal-Mart. Same level of benefits as well. The same problems of working off the clock.

Make a ruckus in the media without the union to go to bat for you and you will quickly be out in the street and be blacklisted from furthur railroad employment. File a lawsuit under which law? Without the union to take your message to Congress, watch decades of safety and labor legislation go out the window in short order.

Want proof? Just hire out on the railroad and see how things work and then ask yourself if the railroad management has your best interests at heart.

thank you..i couldnt have put it any better myself...
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

The probation period was 60 days once on company property and union dues were about $75/month. My local chairman was corrupt and I'd have paid a $100/month to have some decent representation.
As far as unions all together go. I believe unions were absolutely necessary when they first came to be. Just like many other institutions unions tend to become bogged down from their own bureacracy and corruption. I'm affraid that a labor union is something we'll read about in a history book in the near future unless we get a more labor friendly goverment in place. Look at all the massive lay offs by the airline industry and how cut throat those "negotiations" are. Hmmm, how about we let you keep your job, but you have to take a 50% pay cut and lose most of your benefits? The natural reaction would be to go on strike and fight for what you have. Unfortunately, it seems that unions are losing the little power they had and I'm afraid what the repurcussions will be. Fortunately the railroads are experiencing a boom time and profits are up, so railroaders may fare better than other union crafts. Just pray that the crew consist and FELA are upheld or things could get ugly.

[Anonymous]

inflammable, your are stepping on a few toes here with your non-union position. Is it worth 100.00 a mo. you bet. If it werent for the union we would be making 8.50/hr to pedal these turds down the tracks. This isn't a 9-5 job and which gives the company alot of room to really jerk us around. No union and we would rot in the AFHT....that's just one example of a plethora that agreements make it fair. Remember there inflammable, unions raise the prevailing wage for an area.....think about it.

[Anonymous]

Well, an alert member might would notice that I was seeking information, not trying to step on toes. I understand that unions raise wages, and just about every union member is for that.

Most of my information comes from the Media, which is always biased, and they only show airline strikers, who are unhappy that they may face a cut to $50k a year from $70k a year. I've had trouble having sympathy for that particular group. Also, my father used to be part of a Millwrights union, which could be set up differently from a railroad union. His experiences have been that his hard work has gone down the drain, due to 'more senior members' taking his 'cushy' position from him, not realizing that he had made it cushy and easy, not because the work wasn't there.

Also, I've seen some information about the United Auto Workers. While they raised wages and made life better for workers in cities all over, the end result was that they chased the Automobile manufacters from the country. Now, all the real workers, who paid their dues each month, still got laid off when their factory closed. With all those jobs lost, the higher ups in the union have done alright. I believe that recently, the UAW sponsored a NASCAR race. I don't understand how that sponsorship will net them more income, as it would in the form of sales for a normal retail company. That particular case seemed to me that the union, who fights for workers rights, had extra money lying around, and felt the need to spend it.

Where I work at, an armored truck company, when I first started in the spring of 04, everyone had just voted to start a new local of some security guard union. But since most of the people who were for it were on a differentshift, everything kind of died down about it. Fast forward some time, throw in a major lay off, due to our branch losing a major customer (due in part to people not doing a good job), and no one has said anything lately. Except the guy who was there the saturday before Labor Day, getting us all to sign a new petition to officially dissolve the union. It seems that with the union there, but no one did anything with it, we wouldn't get paid for any holiday except Christmas, but with it not there, we can at least make an argument to our management. A couple people still bring it up, about the union, and I've noticed that these people (who I work with), make more money per hour than everyone else, due to time at the company, and also do the least work, due to how our pay system motivates us to work quickly. They will also complain about any extra work, which will pay them more in the same system. But these are just the people that I work with.

What I'm trying to explain with this long winded post, is that just about everything I hear about unions is bad, with the exception of pay. I am not personally worried about making as much money as I possibly can, enough to live on. While I'm sure I'll want to make more in the future, I'm happy to work for it, working for promotions (which I've gotten two already), and going to college to have something more marketable (slowly but surely).

It looks like most people are for union, while some aren't trusting of them, which makes sense too. I'd certainly like to see more responses. This is for my thoughts on unions in general, with a base on the railroad unions.

James

[Anonymous]

Wow, inflammable...."an alert member....." that's a nice way of taking a shot at me. Usually I would fire back in a not so nice way, but, screw it. Don't have time today. Maybe next time. An alert member also would have seen that the original post was a simple question on dues and probation. Not inflammables opinions on unions.........

[edblysard]

Both side of the deal are needed, if for no other reason than to keep both sides from taking advantage of the other...management running crews to death, and crews milking their run into the hours of service...its a give and take, and regardless of what the media reports, both sides like it just fine the way it is...they both use the same issues to justify their existence and their jobs...

Railroad culture is so different than any other working environment...where else do you routinely get fired, but only for 30/60 or 90 days, then are expected to come back to work at your old job like nothing happened?

Ever hear of job insurance anywhere but at the railroad?
Everyone buys it, because at some point in your career, you will be fired, count on it...

Both sides enjoy the adversarial roles they play, management gets to play the hard boss, and the union guys get to play defenders of the working class...even though both could, if they applied a little common sense, reach a reasonable and mutually beneficial position on most of the issues.

Ed

[PigFarmer1]

It depends on your craft. My probation is 60 days and $60 a month in union dues. I know another guy who hired on in a different craft and his probation is 90 days.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by inflammable

Speaking of unions and dues,

I tend to be anti- union, but I don't have a lot of information about them.

Do you feel that, if the union were to go away tomorrow, that the Railroad would drop your pay (no time limit on when) to where you would make significantly less?

In other words, do you feel that the $100 a month is getting you more money? Keep in mind, that fewer hours also count towards more money.

I'm just anti-union in the present day. They were needed and did a good job in the past, keeping the large corporations in line, but I feel that now a days the same can be accomplished with media attention and lawsuits.

James

I agree with you about unions, I disagree with them. Maybe not for the same reasons thought. The way I see it is if you don't like what you are getting, get another job. I drive a truck. The owner of the Trucking company married a daughter of a big Grocery Chain. I work for the Trucking Company hauling groceries to all the stores. All of the Grocery Companies warehouses are non union except for the one I haul out of. They make a little more than half of the hourly rate that all the other warehouses make, just because they are union. The trucking company I work for pays good, has all the medical and dental coverage and puts 3% of what I make into a Registered Retirement Plan for me. I used to live in a city where most of the Services (Police, Fire, etc.) went on strike in a span of a couple of years. Taxes went up to cover the cities extra cost. There goes your raises in taxes. I think Unions take more than give back to there members. I was also part of a union when I worked for Securicor (Loomis Armoured Car). I counted Millions of Dollars a night, payed $20 a month and made $7.24 an hour.

[88gta350]

QUOTE: Originally posted by inflammable


Where I work at, an armored truck company, when I first started in the spring of 04, everyone had just voted to start a new local of some security guard union. But since most of the people who were for it were on a differentshift, everything kind of died down about it. Fast forward some time, throw in a major lay off, due to our branch losing a major customer (due in part to people not doing a good job), and no one has said anything lately. Except the guy who was there the saturday before Labor Day, getting us all to sign a new petition to officially dissolve the union. It seems that with the union there, but no one did anything with it, we wouldn't get paid for any holiday except Christmas, but with it not there, we can at least make an argument to our management. A couple people still bring it up, about the union, and I've noticed that these people (who I work with), make more money per hour than everyone else, due to time at the company, and also do the least work, due to how our pay system motivates us to work quickly. They will also complain about any extra work, which will pay them more in the same system. But these are just the people that I work with.

James

A union needs strong, committed leadership when just getting started. It needs people willing to put in some long hours of work and phone time for little or no pay to get a local started and keep it strong. It sounds like your workplace didn't have that. Nobody willing to do the work and interface with management to fight for your issues. We're lucky at our local (also in security) that we have a president that is willing to put in those hours even when a lot of the officers aren't gung ho and are willing to stand back and let him do all the work. Our local has done a lot for us, not so much with pay because we already got paid very well before the union, but it was a plethora of other issues that brought the union in and that's what they've been focusing on fixing. Pay is a very minor issue for us.

[Anonymous]

as a teamster my dues are 2 1/2 hours of pay, which amounts to $63 a month. while it's a rip, i might not agree with everyone on the union premise and my local hall's chairpeople are a bunch of corrupt lazy mother effers....it allows me to fill my wallet quite nicely every monday.