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...Increasing coal business...western Pennsylvania

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...Increasing coal business...western Pennsylvania
Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, September 24, 2005 8:06 AM
...Recently info of increasing soft coal activity in western Pennsylvania has been noticed....Friend in coal business indicated it will continue as oil prices increase and remain high...Windber and Shanksville operations possibly increasing. Anyone else hear of similar new activity in that area....?

Quentin

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Posted by adrianspeeder on Saturday, September 24, 2005 8:49 AM
That would be great.

Dad and I still drive up to the northern PA coal regions to get the hard black diamonds to heat the house. Three tons, whole winter of heat, 20mins a day of work, 120bucks total, hot coal fire... priceless.

Adrianspeeder

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Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, September 24, 2005 9:05 AM
Adrian: How much Anthracite {sp?}, coal is still produced up in that area...is it still a major business activity....? I was not sure if mining of the "hard coal" was still currently being done.....

Quentin

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Posted by GP40-2 on Saturday, September 24, 2005 9:11 AM
Most of the deep mines (600-1200 feet underground) in S.W. Pennsylvania are in the process of, or have sumitted plan to the state D.E.P., for HUGE expansions of mining the Pittsburgh Vein.

The Bailey Mine alone has now become the most productive coal mine in the U.S.

CONSOL is reportedly going to spend $ billions on the mine expansions, but with coal production from the Pittsburgh Vein at 18,000 tons coal/ acre, and the high BTU Pittsburgh coal going for something like $70/ton, it won't take long for them to turn a tidy profit.

I've also heard stories of older mines in the Upper Freeport Vein located east of Pittsburgh reopening, or planning to reopen soon.
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Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, September 24, 2005 9:18 AM
...Yes, the increased demand for coal really will be great for western and S W Pennsylvania...{my original home area}, and really glad to see it. Good for transportation systems too....including the railroad systems, many still intact into the valleys near old...and newer {surface, "strip" mines}.....

Quentin

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 24, 2005 9:40 AM
Thanks to technological improvements and investments made by the utility industry; power plants can also burn the "dirtier" coal, which opens up a much wider market for coal buying.
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Posted by GP40-2 on Saturday, September 24, 2005 9:52 AM
The increase in mining doesn't come without problems, however.

The vast majority of mining in Southwestern PA is longwall, with only takes a few miners per shift to remove massive amounts of coal (the longwall machines are larger than a football field!) The increase in mining will only result in a few hundred new jobs.

There is also the topic of potential environmental damage done by the coal mining.

The increase in jobs will only be until the coal runs out, and at the rate the longwall machines extract coal, this may only be 20-30 years until all of western PA is mined out.

In PA, coal reserves are taxed seperately from the land they reside under. For many of the communities/ school districts in the coal fields, it is better for them that the coal stays underground. They have a steady tax revenue from the coal, but once it is mined, the revenue is gone!

This will have no effect on the affluent communities in central/northern Washington County. Most of them have been mined out anyway, and they have a growing tax base from new residental/shopping/office park development expanding from Pittsburgh. There is a large concern that the rural school districs in southern/western Washington County and south to Green county may be bankrupted from the coal removal. They are too far from center city Pittsburgh to experience much new development.
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Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, September 24, 2005 1:55 PM
...There generally are twists to many possitive achievements and sometimes it still works out with possitive results.....So, lets hope the new business on this one does too.

Quentin

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, September 24, 2005 2:30 PM
Originally posted by GP40-2


The Bailey Mine alone has now become the most productive coal mine in the U.S.



[/quote

More produtive than the big mines in the Powder River Basin?

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Posted by dwil89 on Saturday, September 24, 2005 6:02 PM
The mine planned to reopen in Windber, Pa has enough capacity for 30 years of mining...it is planned to be hauled out by rail on NS off the South Fork Secondary,(which branches off the NS Pittsburgh Division Mainline near Johnstown, Pa..) as spurs off the Secondary into Windber still exist...though the trackage and right of way in Windber will need some restoration prior to resumption of service into the Mine. Another mine, associated with Mine 33 in Ebensburg, is planning to open a shaft near Cresson Pa, and this coal will reportably be trucked to loadouts, including Sonman in Portage, which is already loading 2 or 3 NS trains a week.
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Posted by adrianspeeder on Saturday, September 24, 2005 6:21 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by GP40-2


The Bailey Mine alone has now become the most productive coal mine in the U.S.





More produtive than the big mines in the Powder River Basin?


Not the entire PRB, but it is bigger than any one of the individual mines there.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Adrian: How much Anthracite {sp?}, coal is still produced up in that area...is it still a major business activity....? I was not sure if mining of the "hard coal" was still currently being done.....


Pretty big I guess. All there is in most of those towns. When I drag the trailer up there behind the diesel, I usually have to wait for awhile for my turn at the breakers.

Adrianspeeder

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Posted by jockellis on Sunday, September 25, 2005 9:02 PM
G'day, Y'all,
Sure would be nice if the mines serviced by the East Broadtop would re-open and that old narrow gage would go back into the coal hauling business with steam locomotion. When I went up there last September, I wanted one of the old hoppers. They were so small and cute.
Jock Ellis
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Posted by old462000 on Sunday, September 25, 2005 9:10 PM
Yes. I live here near Norfolk, Va. and the coal keeps acomin. Local newspaper had an article which said NS was increasing hte shipments to Norfolk. Foreign export was up 20% since this time last year. Seems foreign export is good. Hope so, makes my stock feel good!
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PRB vrs Penna
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 25, 2005 9:35 PM
Bailey (CONSOL) is the largest deep mine producing about 10+ million tons /year. Black Thunder in PRB is the largest strip operation at 70 million tons/year. Their seam of coal is 69 feet thick!

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Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, September 25, 2005 9:37 PM
....Good ole King Coal, bring it on....Good for certain regions of our country.

Quentin

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, September 25, 2005 10:18 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by tabiery

Bailey (CONSOL) is the largest deep mine producing about 10+ million tons /year. Black Thunder in PRB is the largest strip operation at 70 million tons/year. Their seam of coal is 69 feet thick!

tom


That's kind of what I was thinking.

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Posted by Modelcar on Monday, September 26, 2005 8:56 AM
...A vein of coal 69' thick is awesome....!! That allows removal rather fast. Much at one spot.

Quentin

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Posted by tsgtbob on Monday, September 26, 2005 11:38 AM
PBS coals is working with KW Reese to re-open the Coleman Sub from Shanksville to, where else, Coleman Station. Coleman Station is on the S&C sub, running from Rockwood Pa. to Johnstown Pa. This was one of the B&O's biggest coal branches back until the early 60s. Plans are for the branch to re-open in late Oct. The sub was originally laid in the 1940s to access the mines in Stonycreek township.
BTW, anthricite coal is mined in the NE corner of PA, here in the SW corner it's bituninous (sp)
The Windber ops for NS have been on the upswing for about 2 years now, running out to a plant in Central City/Carinbrook 'metro' area. Best place to see the power, which is usally SD70s in Conrail, is in Carinbrook, next to the Shade Central City School.
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Posted by dwil89 on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:43 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by tsgtbob

PBS coals is working with KW Reese to re-open the Coleman Sub from Shanksville to, where else, Coleman Station. Coleman Station is on the S&C sub, running from Rockwood Pa. to Johnstown Pa. This was one of the B&O's biggest coal branches back until the early 60s. Plans are for the branch to re-open in late Oct. The sub was originally laid in the 1940s to access the mines in Stonycreek township.
BTW, anthricite coal is mined in the NE corner of PA, here in the SW corner it's bituninous (sp)
The Windber ops for NS have been on the upswing for about 2 years now, running out to a plant in Central City/Carinbrook 'metro' area. Best place to see the power, which is usally SD70s in Conrail, is in Carinbrook, next to the Shade Central City School.
Actually, SD80MACS are quite prevalent along this line...otherwise known as the South Fork Secondary..Listening to your scanner, you will hear crews calling the Pittsburgh East Dispatcher for Form D's to move along the line....you will hear numbers in the 7200 series, such as 7201, 7207, etc....these are ex-Conrail SD80MACS...If you are seeing ex-Conrail SD70's, you'll be seeing Standard Cab units numbered between 2557 and 2580. Crews heading with empties Southbound from South Fork down to Cairnbrook will get a Form D from 'FORK' to 'CAIRN'....and vice versa for loaded Northbounds. If they are loading at Huskins which is another loadout between South Fork and Cairnbrook, they will get FORM D's from 'FORK' to 'NAG'...and vice versa heading back North.,Pittsburgh East Dispatchers Dan Meese, Rich Borkowski, Rich Broyles, Jen Sittar,and Jen Patterson, are some of the Dispatchers that crews on the South Fork Secondary(and the Mainline) can be routinely heard talking to on the radio.....
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Posted by DPD1 on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:26 PM
I wonder if any of the Southern IL mines will start up again. There's still plenty of coal left there.

Dave
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Posted by blhanel on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:34 PM
Would any of that coal be possibly heading west? The reason I ask is that Sunday evening, on the way home from Chicago, I witnessed a WESTBOUND loaded coal train crossing the Mississippi at Clinton.
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Posted by dwil89 on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:50 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by blhanel

Would any of that coal be possibly heading west? The reason I ask is that Sunday evening, on the way home from Chicago, I witnessed a WESTBOUND loaded coal train crossing the Mississippi at Clinton.
Much of the coal out of South Fork heads East, and some of that also goes to a local powerplant near Johnstown...I don't know if anything coming out of Bailey heads West...
David J. Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown
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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:55 PM
Bob from Shanksville....Thanks for the late info on the Coleman Sub....Please keep us up on the latest as that project develops. Brian and I have been talking about that project now for several months and have real interest in it....{I'm originally from Stoystown}.....

Quentin

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Posted by bbrant on Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:05 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by tsgtbob

PBS coals is working with KW Reese to re-open the Coleman Sub from Shanksville to, where else, Coleman Station. Coleman Station is on the S&C sub, running from Rockwood Pa. to Johnstown Pa. This was one of the B&O's biggest coal branches back until the early 60s. Plans are for the branch to re-open in late Oct. The sub was originally laid in the 1940s to access the mines in Stonycreek township.
BTW, anthricite coal is mined in the NE corner of PA, here in the SW corner it's bituninous (sp)
The Windber ops for NS have been on the upswing for about 2 years now, running out to a plant in Central City/Carinbrook 'metro' area. Best place to see the power, which is usally SD70s in Conrail, is in Carinbrook, next to the Shade Central City School.


Hey Bob - or should I say neighbor. (I'm from Somerset behind Wills Church near the windmills.)

I've been watching the PBS line to see when it will be up and running agian. I took a drive by that area last Friday. Looks like a fair amount of tie replacement has been done and that they're working near the connection with the S&C.

In June, I talked to a guy from PBS. He said they were only planning on running a few trains. Seems like PBS is putting a lot of money into the line for only a few trains so I'm hoping he's wrong on that aspect.

I haven't heard of when trains will start running on the line again so if you hear anything, please post it here. I'm anxiously awaiting to see 'em go there. In the meantime, here's a few pictures I took of the line.

http://bbrant.rrpicturearchives.net/archivethumbs.aspx?id=4756

Brian
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Posted by adrianspeeder on Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:38 PM
Cool pics!

Nothin' quite like Pennsylvania coal railroadin'

Adrianspeeder

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Posted by tsgtbob on Thursday, September 29, 2005 1:55 PM
Hey Bbrant, ever been to the model rr club in the basement of Newberry's? The "O" scale (2 rail) layout's mine.
BTW look for my byline in the Daily American. ( I'm the guy who sneaks in the train stories, and gets ALL of the military story assignments)
dwil89, the coal out of Carinbrook is exported to China. It comes from a mine near Berlin.
I'm glad you can pick up scanner calls from where you are, cause I can't and I'm 7 miles as the crow flies.
BTW, anything newer than a GP-40-2 looks all alike to me.
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Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, September 29, 2005 2:04 PM
....How about "www.railroadradio.net".....Live railroad scanner railroad communication....

Quentin

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Posted by bbrant on Thursday, September 29, 2005 4:37 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by tsgtbob

Hey Bbrant, ever been to the model rr club in the basement of Newberry's? The "O" scale (2 rail) layout's mine.
BTW look for my byline in the Daily American. ( I'm the guy who sneaks in the train stories, and gets ALL of the military story assignments)


Bob -

Right after I posted I took a look at your profile....when I saw "photojournalist" I was able to put 2 & 2 together.

And yes, I have been to the club. As a matter of fact, I have a layout there under the steps and next to an O scale (2 rail) layout. [:D] Small world (and getting smaller)!!

Are they still looking to have the line in service by the end of Oct? I'd like to get some pictures when trains start running again. I just took my camera into the shop on Monday so it should be fixed just in time.

Brian
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Posted by bbrant on Thursday, September 29, 2005 4:39 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by adrianspeeder

Cool pics!

Nothin' quite like Pennsylvania coal railroadin'

Adrianspeeder


Thanks. And I couldn't agree more.....nothing like watching a string of coal cars going down the line!!

Brian
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Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:07 PM
...Better yet, to see them coming UP the line and better yet to have heard them being pulled and...pushed up the line with hard working steam locos....Yep, it shows my time line but that's the way it is....The ground used to shake when we kids were close to one blasting up from Kantner and crossing the 218 bridge where we were swimming, etc...and of course have cinders rain down on us as it passed......

Quentin

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