United States Gets Help Offers...

[Tulyar15]

Here! Here! I gather Sri Lanla is also sending help, despite the fact that it is still recovering from the tsunami

(off topic, but a preservation group in IReland has sold some of its surplus diesel locos at scrap price to Sri Lanka to help in the rebuilding. These locos will be overhauled and reguaged from Irish gauge (5' 3") to Sri Lankan gauge (5' 6").)

[Anonymous]

I must admit, I am stunned by the countries who have offered help, even Cuba. It would be neat if we could all get together and just say we are all in this planet so let's not wait for natural disasters to make us to really be brothers {and sisters}

[Junctionfan]

More news;

Venezuela will be sending 1 million barrels of gasoline.

NATO is going to be engaging in a major operation at the request of the U.S. I saw it on CNN but to be safe, I went to NATO's website to confirm it to be true but no details yet.

He is something interesting.

Iran has offered humanitarian aid. I honestly not to sure how to respond to this. I don't think the Whitehouse saw that coming...........neither did I.

[Anonymous]

I think it is very good that other countries are offering help to the United States during this tragedy. New Orleans and its citizens plus the surrounding areas are going to need all the help they can get. Several churches in our area are taking up donations of food, health supplies, and money for the victims of Katrina. I am looking forward to sending in some of my own money to help these people. I hope that President Bush will accept a generous offer of financial help from these other countries. I have been following the story of Katrina and its aftermath all week long. This is indeed a tragedy, but I believe that eventually the people of New Orleans and the other affected areas will overcome this horrific event.

[Junctionfan]

Foreign Aid is on the way.

I heard on Toronto News that Canada is sending 2 warships and 1 Coast Guard vessel. They left the Port of Halifax with in the pasts 24 hours enroute to the New Orleans. Air Canada has pitched in and is helping with evacuations.

China has sent over $5 million, supplies and aid workers.

Qatar has or is in the process of sending $100 million U.S in humanitarian aid.

Kuwait is going to pass a bill authorizing $500 million U.S.

[bnsfkline]

Because the media is F'ed Up, like the Gihad.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

Dan,

Thanks for responding. I don't disagree with your principles, I was just curious about the technical legality of it all, since you appear to know.

Gabe

Technically speaking....and in terms of using forces within the US or adjoining waters, not in Bosnia, Iraq, etc......Prior to 9/11 we (active duty) were bound by "posse comitatus"...which effectively meant that say for drug interdiction, we could support but not apprehend or arrest. The Coast Guard would be called in to board or arrest because they have law enforcement power. SInce 9/11 and re-organization and estblishment on DHS, there is provision for using troops in a psedo-law enforcement role because the lines decerning threat to the country are kind of blurry at times regarding the differences between combatant and criminal.....a terrorist is which? There has always been the ability to excercise emergency powers at the federal level, but that is a touchy subject, and this probably doesn't warrant such a draconian response.

In the LA example, the Marines were brought in to "restore order" but really were without guidance as to law enforcement, more as a presence to mainain control and cordon off areas, but limited pretty much to self defence and the use of force to prevent death or injury to another US citizen, which falls under self defence ROE. Not really the right set of rules to put down a riot. But nonetheless.....in that instance it may have helped, but the precedent still is not good IMHO.

Dan

Great points Dan, so why hasn't the "media" offered this to the angered public so they know why things are currently the way they are. Right now it's all finger point towards Washington. I have been saying this for the last day or so, but you explained the actual why. Thanks!

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

Dan,

Thanks for responding. I don't disagree with your principles, I was just curious about the technical legality of it all, since you appear to know.

Gabe

Technically speaking....and in terms of using forces within the US or adjoining waters, not in Bosnia, Iraq, etc......Prior to 9/11 we (active duty) were bound by "posse comitatus"...which effectively meant that say for drug interdiction, we could support but not apprehend or arrest. The Coast Guard would be called in to board or arrest because they have law enforcement power. SInce 9/11 and re-organization and estblishment on DHS, there is provision for using troops in a psedo-law enforcement role because the lines decerning threat to the country are kind of blurry at times regarding the differences between combatant and criminal.....a terrorist is which? There has always been the ability to excercise emergency powers at the federal level, but that is a touchy subject, and this probably doesn't warrant such a draconian response.

In the LA example, the Marines were brought in to "restore order" but really were without guidance as to law enforcement, more as a presence to mainain control and cordon off areas, but limited pretty much to self defence and the use of force to prevent death or injury to another US citizen, which falls under self defence ROE. Not really the right set of rules to put down a riot. But nonetheless.....in that instance it may have helped, but the precedent still is not good IMHO.

Dan

[Jordan6]

Just briefly read at the yard office that the BNSF will donate $1,000,000.

[gabe]

Dan,

Thanks for responding. I don't disagree with your principles, I was just curious about the technical legality of it all, since you appear to know.

Gabe

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

Dan,

Good to see you still on here. I am kind of locked in a figuritive tower and don't get to read as much of the news as I would like, but is what you stay true when Marshall law has been declared in a city and has Marshall law been declared in New Orleans?

Gabe

If I understand it correctly, active duty forces can be used to maintain public control when deemed necessary...however....the precedent is that NG units should be used first, since they answer to the Govenor when used in state service, which gives greater latititude in thier use, as they work for the state normally. If anyone remembers the fallout from using the Marines during the LA riots, because Camp Pendelton's forces were closer and more rapidly available than the CA NG. It doesn't really work that well and puts them in a bad situation. Can it be done...yes, if the President authorizes it. I believe that it is a part of the DHS verbage....is it a good idea...no. The only time I could think of doing it is in a "Day After Tommorrow" scenario, where the Feds take over completly...and I don't think we really want that.

Dan

[gabe]

Dan,

Good to see you still on here. I am kind of locked in a figuritive tower and don't get to read as much of the news as I would like, but is what you stay true when Marshall law has been declared in a city and has Marshall law been declared in New Orleans?

Gabe

[dharmon]

Law enforcement is essentially left at the state level. Active duty military,as a rule, is not permitted to conduct law enforcement action with regard to US citizens and for good reason. The MPs being mobilized are National Guard, as they in this situation fall under command of the state Governor. While active duty can be used for support, airlift, search and rescue, etc....the actual use as law enforcement is best left to the state, which includes use of National Guard. Yes the Feds can authorize it under the DHS, but if nothing else, than to maintain the precedent, it shouldn't be done.

Dan

[bnsfkline]

JF, No, not to my knowledge

[Junctionfan]

The feds can go in if the state can't restore order. Can't they go federal if the states authorizes it?

[garr]

Per article in today's Wall Street Journal, the federal government can not send in federal troops for enforcement functions. It revolves around a law passed during reconstruction after the Civil War. Only the National Guard troops from the states can do enforcement work. Nothing can be done as far as other state NG or federal troop involvement until the affected state's Governor asks/requests.

IIRC, before Katrina came ashore, wasn't someone with a truck load of ice for FEMA posting on this forum while waiting at a truck stop in LA, MS, or AL? The federal government was working on its preparations, but the destruction nearly reached the worst case scenario level. It is virtually impossible to have the full recovery resources available immediately in a relatively small geographical area for this level of destruction.

I can only imagine the suffering people are enduring. In situations like this, particularly if stranded, I believe that a minute seems like an hour, an hour like a day, and a day like a week. It is not a pretty picture for our instant gratification society.

Remember, hindsight is 20/20. There's not many situations, good or bad, that each of us, including mayors, governors, and presidents, have not wished something differently had been done earlier if only we knew the outcome.

Jay

[csmith9474]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ndbprr

Most of the blame right now goes to the New Orleans Mayor and the Louisana governor who still haven't called up the National Guard in Louisana and the feds can't do. It is a state function. One source say's half the cops in new Orleans walked off and the other half wouldn't let relief workers in. talk about screwed up.

The federal government can task the Guard. Trust me on this one. And on another note, several nations have donated to the Red Cross and several other relief organizations.

[Clutch Cargo]

:/

Kurt.

[ndbprr]

Most of the blame right now goes to the New Orleans Mayor and the Louisana governor who still haven't called up the National Guard in Louisana and the feds can't do. It is a state function. One source say's half the cops in new Orleans walked off and the other half wouldn't let relief workers in. talk about screwed up.

[Anonymous]

they need to help by taking our gas away, people rely way to much on trivial things like gas, when there are many, many other ways of gettin around. the fact that you suggested them sending it over here(jokin or not) relaly shows how much people think they have to have gas.....

[Clutch Cargo]

A side note, on topic.
My Father recieved a call up letter today on UN Stationery from Doctors Without Borders.

Dad has been dead for two years.

Help is on the way it seems to be a logistics exercise mostly now.

Rest assured that 1/4 of all the Doctors in the world are trying to get into NOLA.

Kurt

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by conrailman

Its Time to get Bill Gates to donate 1 to 2 Billion to to help the poor in NOL and Donald Trump should donate a few Billion, and Baseball, football Players should donate them players making 3 to 15 Million a year in money. [2c]

OK, conrailman, have you donated? I'm pretty sure those people will, if they haven't already done so. Maybe they just want to do it anonymously like the rest of us. I keep bringing this up on this and other threads, to a point that I might becoming annoying, but it starts with us. If all of us gave $10 or $20 it would help a LOT. I teach in a high school, and the student council was out there at the parking lot with buckets and signs this morning getting spare change from all the other students. How much did they get? Probably not a whole lot, but if every high school in the country did something like that, it would be a sizeable amount of money. The Red Cross is just a click away.


mike

[conrailman]

Its Time to get Bill Gates to donate 1 to 2 Billion to to help the poor in NOL and Donald Trump should donate a few Billion, and Baseball, football Players should donate them players making 3 to 15 Million a year in money. [2c]

[Modelcar]

...When finally the living are all rescued and transportated someplace.....I wonder where the officials will agree to house these folks and in what.....We're talking about thousands upon tens of thousands of people....lives uprooted, with no income in many cases, elderly, sickly, and many in need of special medicine....Oh my....The list would just go on.....And the time frame is not just for a week or so.....These folks have no where to go back to....How many mobile homes can the government set up....It just seems staggering.....How will this be done.....?? I can't believe this is happening in our vast country.......Don't we have more resources available to somehow make this happen in a more orderly fashion....or at least make it happen quicker....It's just terrible..!

[ndbprr]

The UN SOB who said we didn't give enough help for the tsunami relief has been strangely quiet and has done nothing to see if we need anything. Time to move the UN to somewhere like Bangledsh and see how they like it there.

[eolafan]

Just read in the paper that fundementalist Islamic groups are celebrating the plight of New Orleans...guess they won't get upset when we don't offer to help them the next time they experience an earthquake or tsunami...or will they?

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ray.Lampman

How long until a railroad could push a train of empty gondolas into New Orleans to serve as an emergency evacuation train? Both Class-1s running west, UP and BNSF, seem close to reaching New Orleans. How much water depth above the rails would mechanically prevent a train from sloshing though? Have our governments explored the rail options? I'd sure like to see the railroads benefit from the positive press which would follow a few successful rescue trains!

It's that "last mile" that's the killer. Unless there are usable tracks within a short walk of where the refugees are gathered, you still have to transport them a certain distance.

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ray.Lampman

How long until a railroad could push a train of empty gondolas into New Orleans to serve as an emergency evacuation train? Both Class-1s running west, UP and BNSF, seem close to reaching New Orleans. How much water depth above the rails would mechanically prevent a train from sloshing though? Have our governments explored the rail options? I'd sure like to see the railroads benefit from the positive press which would follow a few successful rescue trains!

water over the cap of the rail can cause the traction motors to short out causing a growned relay to trip... but the biggest issue is the power being out and debei along the right of way... a train could pu***horhg a downed tree..but a roof of someones house might be a bit more of an issue... as for the electrical power.. it cuts the communicatins and signals systems out... makes running trains safly for any reason a pain in the butt...
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

How long until a railroad could push a train of empty gondolas into New Orleans to serve as an emergency evacuation train? Both Class-1s running west, UP and BNSF, seem close to reaching New Orleans. How much water depth above the rails would mechanically prevent a train from sloshing though? Have our governments explored the rail options? I'd sure like to see the railroads benefit from the positive press which would follow a few successful rescue trains!