Railroad concern for crossing safety

[Anonymous]

80, 000 bucks for a block signal system.. bull... one of thsoe things.. can't cost more then 5 grand. how much can a frislly light machine that rotates and has three different aspects cost? surely not 80, 000 bucks.. let's say at most they're 20, 000$ thats 60, 000 bucks to spare..

Either the Maker of Block signal signals are going to alot of strip bars and putting 60, 000 dollars in one denominations down a Strippers thong

------------OR----------

there significantly less then what you said.. guessing B is the more aprropriate answer

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman
Either the Maker of Block signal signals are going to alot of strip bars and putting 60, 000 dollars in one denominations down a Strippers thong

I think we need to investigate this -- where's the signup list for volunteers? [:p]

[ironhorseman]

For missouri:

Class is now in session, pay attention.

RE: CROSSING GATE TECHNOLOGY

I did some research specifically concerning crossing gate mechanism activation systems. Here is what I found:

You made the claim about them being 1800s technology. According to Western-Cullen-Hayes, Inc. they pioneered the first automatic crossing bell in 1889. In 1914 they installed the first crossing light called a wig-wag. In 1936 they were the first to install a crossing arm.

In order to activate these systems in the year 2003 they have created, manufactured, and marked a device called Railroad Wheel Sensors and Amplifiers.

From the Western-Cullen-Hayes, Inc. website:

“General Description:
“Our railroad wheel sensors and amplifiers are used wherever information regarding the direction, speed or presence of a piece of railroad rolling stock is required.

“Principle of Operation:
“Inductive coils inside each sensor are connected by two wires to a remote amplifier. When the flange of the railroad wheel enters the high-frequency field of the sensors, the sensor oscillators are dampened, resulting in a change of amplitude. This frequency shift is reflected back to the amplifier, which generates an optical coupler output.”

To read more in detail and see pictures visit www.ach.com > products > railroad signal > wheel sensors.

That’s not all. The website you borrowed your uncited info from, Union Switch & Signal (http://www.switch.com/products/4quadbrochure.htm), apparently a competitor of ACH, also makes crossing gate mechanisms and they pretty much have the same standards.

From that website:
“Track Circuits:
“The track circuits detect the presence of a train within the crossing approaches and on the island (where track and road meet), and they initiate operation of the highway-crossing warning system.”

All of these mechanisms are modern devices. The idea of a moving train triggering a crossing gate is not new, but the modifications and advancements are. To back this claim I went to the US Patent Office website and did all the searching on “crossing gate mechanisms” and found some pretty darn modern patents. The newest patent is from 1997, hardly a Nineteenth Century invention. It can all be found at http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/search-bool.html by typing in the search field “crossing gate mechanism.” The search results can be found at http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph
Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=Crossing+Gate+Mechanism&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=&d=ptxt

Now, back what started this crossing gate controversy was you said you viewed a grade crossing recently where the train stopped short of the crossing, but the lights did not shut off, the arms did not go up, the crews made no attempt to deactivate the crossing for the duration of their stop, and motorist went around.

Why didn’t the crews deactivate the gates? Pure and simple: for safety reasons. The situation may not have been safe to do so. But I wasn’t there and since I don’t have many details about the railroad, the area, the situation, etc. I can only speculate because you weren’t specific enough.

Before you go making wild accusations you need to do your research. Read those websites I gave you. Copy and paste don’t count. Not referencing your work doesn’t count. Twisting the facts don’t count. Don’t tell me the railroads and equipment manufactures are not doing everything to keep you safe. If your going to play hardball with me you better be have your mitt ready because I’ll throw back with accuracy anything you can lob at me.

Having that said, I hereby make a motoion that the matter of crossing gate technology be closed.

[Anonymous]

Like I said around $80,000.

http://www.infoiowa.state.ia.us/DOT/2002/itip/rail.pdf And then in Iowa crossing lights are $120,000, $100,000, $80,000 and you say no more than $10,000. Then the tax payers are paying the railroads like $40,000 to redo the crossing. Most roads are what 20 feet wide and the right of way 100 feet long so 2,000 sq. feet ---hmmm $20 bucks a square foot---So whats the difference between the black top at highway crossings and highways?

[Anonymous]

Woha Woha

Slow down Tiny Pines..

What do you want.. crossings to be redone or not

Make up your Bloody mind!

[Anonymous]

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/media/twgreport.htm#663 See just lights is only good for train speeds of 25 mph. Check out the fatalities this year. The trains were all going over 40 mph when they broadsided the drivers. Anything less than 40 and the trains were broadsided at dark crossings. The railroads can repair the roads on their own damn property like anybody else. Their gross overcharges OR being paid at all takes away from active crossing equipment. Take the two together and Iowa pisses the funds into the railroads pocket every year and get NOTHING accomplished safety wise.

[Anonymous]

Well Ironhorseman GE owns one signal compnay now and Westinghouse the other. COAX came in when was it around 1960 or so. We landed on the moon when?
Tell me:
Where is one witness seeing the truck going around the gate!
WHY did the railroad rip the event recorder out before the NTSB got to it.
Why did the broken gate disappear? Wouldn't be because it would show an internal or external fracture now could it?
How did the engineer lock of the brakes? You have to watch the simulation closely.
...Then there was a situation where a grain car
was leaking soy meal. It has tendency to cause a
coating on the subsequent axles in that car, and we had
a momentary loss of shunt. While the train was
transferring some crossings, the gates started up and
went back down...
MR. WALPERT: Subsequent to the accident,
have there been any reports of false activations to
your knowledge?
MR. SHARKEY: I don't recall.
http://www.ntsb.gov/events/1999/bourbonnais/trans_990914.txt
http://www.ntsb.gov/events/1999/bourbonnais/trans_990913.txt
http://www.ntsb.gov/events/1999/bourbonnais/trans_990915.txt
http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2002/bourbonnais/amtrak59_anim.htm
http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2002/bourbonnais/amtrak59_anim.htm

[eolafan]

I wonder if there was a grassy knoll near the accident site in Bourbonnais? Now there's food for thought!
ONLY KIDDING FOLKS, but I'll bet Missouri is getting all excited right about now.

[wabash1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by missouri

Well Ironhorseman GE owns one signal compnay now and Westinghouse the other. COAX came in when was it around 1960 or so. We landed on the moon when?
Tell me:
Where is one witness seeing the truck going around the gate!
WHY did the railroad rip the event recorder out before the NTSB got to it.
Why did the broken gate disappear? Wouldn't be because it would show an internal or external fracture now could it?
How did the engineer lock of the brakes? You have to watch the simulation closely.
...Then there was a situation where a grain car
was leaking soy meal. It has tendency to cause a
coating on the subsequent axles in that car, and we had
a momentary loss of shunt. While the train was
transferring some crossings, the gates started up and
went back down...
MR. WALPERT: Subsequent to the accident,
have there been any reports of false activations to
your knowledge?
MR. SHARKEY: I don't recall.
http://www.ntsb.gov/events/1999/bourbonnais/trans_990914.txt
http://www.ntsb.gov/events/1999/bourbonnais/trans_990913.txt
http://www.ntsb.gov/events/1999/bourbonnais/trans_990915.txt
http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2002/bourbonnais/amtrak59_anim.htm
http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2002/bourbonnais/amtrak59_anim.htm

1st things first. I dont care who owns the signal company. i dont like ge products period. It doesnt matter who makes the signal if it works then fine. if it dont there are safty precautions built in. the signals have been in place for years and it seems to me only people who cant read and use common sense are the ones who get killed.

you asked how did the railroad rip the recorder out before the NTSB got there You have no idea what you are saying first off do you even know where the event recorder is? and even more important do you know how it is afixed to the engine? My answer is no to you. there is no way you can just go up and take these things off a engine. and you haft to remove all of them if you was hiding something. why cause they are all recording. but with this accedent there is something you dont know also. since the train a amtrak was operated on illinois central railroad the first people who investigated was the ic railroad. along with the amtrac officials. who intern had help from the ntsb.. The ic railroad is the owner of the railroad so it was their heads on the chopping block. they had to prove that the crossing worked properly.

Now there is no way to lock the brakes up on a trains at speed. the only way you would do this is after a emergency application ( and this engineer did this) would be not to bail the brakes in which the pressures in the locomotive cylinders can and do reach and exceed 100 psi. in turn locking and flat spotting wheels. these are exspensive to replace and a mark on your record if you do this. hence forth for simulation perposes ( it proves more graphic for normal people ) they show locked wheels. Have you ever seen a train go by with a wheel smoking. most generally this is a brake stuck on. wheel not sliding just brakes rubbing .

as far as a grain car and its soy bean load. this is a crock. we lose grain and beans regularly. it never shunts a track. but lets say it did the siding or spur it would affect wont do anything for the main line. and you make it sound that the only thing there was that car. still you would have a engine and once past that point everything would work perfect anyways. so you have several diferant ways to alert traffic including the dreaded flagman that has to dodge traffic that wont stop anyways. But in going back and reading your post ( cut and pasted to further your cause) soymeal no big deal and trailing axels. you still have a long lead and a island circut. on todays systems there is no way the circut would reset that fast on a main line where everything is clean.

In reality you grasping for what ever makes your case and not having any idea what you are talking about. and not remebering what year exactly we landed on the moon i can tell you what i was doing it was at night or evening if you want exactly. summer cause i wasnt in school. the neighbors was over and was drinking beer. with my parents. ( the ones who taught me to stop look listen and live) and so you can laugh at me call me names ill say it was 1968 or 69. and the rumor was that when the ship landed the earth would blow up .

[Anonymous]

Pssst brainstein Wabash 1. The gate event recorder would probably be in the $12,000 tax-payer paid for gate equipment house not on the engine. Least ways that's where it was ripped out of before the BOYZ from the NTSB got there.

The testimony never said the soybeans shunted (shorted out the tracks). They said the bean coating prevented the shunt. You know like putting electrical tape over a electrical connection where a person isn't shocked. So basically the switch was turned off.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by missouri

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/media/twgreport.htm#663 See just lights is only good for train speeds of 25 mph. Check out the fatalities this year. The trains were all going over 40 mph when they broadsided the drivers.

OKAY now for who wants to be a millionaire.. for 1 million dollars


Why were the drivers "Broadsided"?

was it beacsue

A) the conductor turned the steering wheel the wrong way
B) The conductor forgot he was driving his train on aspault that day
C) the rails were uprouted by you and bent to face the driver in the car
D) the car went around a closed gates and was hit by a train..

time is running out mr pines.. please select an answer...

[JoeKoh]

oh me me me i know i know i know
stay safe
joe

[Anonymous]

OR the GD crossing was blind
The train was going too fast for conditions
The robber baron rail lords are $$$ hungry
The RR unions are corrupt
The railroaders should wear dresses to work?????????

[edblysard]

Wear dresses to work? Only if they have long sleeves, and a *** pocket for my smokes.
Yup, your right, unions are corrupt.
No, most railroads are publicly traded companies now, the robber barons are all dead. Rich, but dead.
And exactly what do you expect to find on railroad tracks, except a train?
Maybe your nextdoor neighbor, riding his big wheel?
Most of the rest of the thinking mammals expect a train.
Look, listen, Live.
Uniheads Unite!
Ed[8]

[Anonymous]

Hoo Rah ED

and missouri.. that was an invalid answer to the question

the correct answer was D.

[csxns]

MISSOURI can you tell us please tell us.Have you ever lost somebody in a crossing collision.You are getting to a lot of people.You cant change peoples mind if they like trains.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxns

MISSOURI can you tell us please tell us.Have you ever lost somebody in a crossing collision.You are getting to a lot of people.You cant change peoples mind if they like trains.

I lose about three a day---But if I don't do all I can to prevent it ---It makes me as quilty as the railroads, FRA, and anybody else who lets them kill at will. It's part of the job the brainwashing starts pretty early I can imagine. ONLY IF YOU LET IT BE!!!

[edblysard]

Now thats obscene, quoteing a Beatles song in all of your junk, but, now that I think about it, thats the only intelligent thing youve ever written here, so, yeah, why dont you "Let it Be?"

QUOTE: Originally posted by missouri

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxns

MISSOURI can you tell us please tell us.Have you ever lost somebody in a crossing collision.You are getting to a lot of people.You cant change peoples mind if they like trains.

I lose about three a day---But if I don't do all I can to prevent it ---It makes me as quilty as the railroads, FRA, and anybody else who lets them kill at will. It's part of the job the brainwashing starts pretty early I can imagine. ONLY IF YOU LET IT BE!!!

[csxns]

Missouri what do you mean by three a day.

[sooblue]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxns

Missouri what do you mean by three a day.

He means he has become a crusader fighting against all the wickedness of the RRs.

Fighting against the evil engineers who kill three innocent people a day.
Fighting against the corporate devil that earns $$$.

Don't anyone take this wrong!
Missouri should be a crusader, it is his best destiny.
However, the crusade is wrong. It should be a crusade to educate.
Educate the RRs
Educate the public
It should be a positive crusade not a negative waste of print space!
Missouri, who ever you are. You’re wasting your time and effort on the negative.
You need to crusade from the positive side. People listen to that.
Your spirit and energy could be used in a program like operation lifesaver or it's equivalent.
Sooblue

[eolafan]

For those of you who may watch professional wrestling (I do with my young son once in a while), you may have seen a character who goes by the name of "Hurricane" who is supposed to be a sort of super-hero (aka crusader), and is really a pathetic little dweeb ina stupid costumer who gets the C_ _ P beat out of him all the time because he really is not good and has no real talent....REMINDS ME OF OUR FRIEND MISSOURI...How about you guys?

[RonInscho]

Just My personal observation after 35 yrs. of railroading & motorist running in to the trains I am on is that the public is STUPID & until they get a lot smarter & are taught better driving skills the carnage will continue, & each time it happens the press is always there to record what happened to that poor motorist & make it sound like the train crew could have done something but chose not to, it is never mentioned that the crew has to live with this, as if that train is just a mindless thing that is always in somebodys way especially when they are in a hurry. I still think the old crossing signs said it best STOP, LOOK & LISTEN, if this was in practice 99.99% of all grade crossing accidents could be avoided

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RonInscho

Just My personal observation after 35 yrs. of railroading & motorist running in to the trains I am on is that the public is STUPID & until they get a lot smarter & are taught better driving skills the carnage will continue, & each time it happens the press is always there to record what happened to that poor motorist & make it sound like the train crew could have done something but chose not to, it is never mentioned that the crew has to live with this, as if that train is just a mindless thing that is always in somebodys way especially when they are in a hurry. I still think the old crossing signs said it best STOP, LOOK & LISTEN, if this was in practice 99.99% of all grade crossing accidents could be avoided

Like I said the brain washing must start early on when the job starts.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

For those of you who may watch professional wrestling (I do with my young son once in a while), you may have seen a character who goes by the name of "Hurricane" who is supposed to be a sort of super-hero (aka crusader), and is really a pathetic little dweeb ina stupid costumer who gets the C_ _ P beat out of him all the time because he really is not good and has no real talent....REMINDS ME OF OUR FRIEND MISSOURI...How about you guys?

I don't watch it because it is so fake. Kinda like Operation Lifesaver, railroads, and the railroaders who say they care---Well take three days off together and do something.

Let me know when your comeing and I'll bake a cake.

[dekemd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by missouri

QUOTE: Originally posted by RonInscho

Just My personal observation after 35 yrs. of railroading & motorist running in to the trains I am on is that the public is STUPID & until they get a lot smarter & are taught better driving skills the carnage will continue, & each time it happens the press is always there to record what happened to that poor motorist & make it sound like the train crew could have done something but chose not to, it is never mentioned that the crew has to live with this, as if that train is just a mindless thing that is always in somebodys way especially when they are in a hurry. I still think the old crossing signs said it best STOP, LOOK & LISTEN, if this was in practice 99.99% of all grade crossing accidents could be avoided

Like I said the brain washing must start early on when the job starts.

Missouri, I've never worked for the railroad, so I haven't been brainwashed. But I am a cop. RonInscho is right, a good chunk of the motorists on the streets are STUPID. I have seen more accidents, not just involving train collisions, that were caused by someone doing something stupid behind the wheel than you can imagine. The lastest was a woman who was trying to answer her cell phone while driving 45 mph. She ran a stop light and was broadsided by a tractor trailer. It was a miracle she survived. Key word is broadsided. The same word you used in describing the train collisions. Who was at fault in the accident I was at. It sure wasn't the truck driver. He had the right of way. The woman was cited for failing to stop at a red light and failure to yield. Same as in most of the collisions you have posted on this board. Motorist fails to stop for flashing red lights. Motorists fails to yield right of way to trains. Motorist at fault. It doesn't matter if the train is there 15 seconds after the lights start flashing or 2 minutes after the lights start flashing. Flashing red lights mean stop.

Derrick

[sooblue]

Who said "you can't find a cop when you need him"?
What % of all accidents are unnecessary Derrick?
(off the top of your head)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: What % of all accidents are unnecessary

I don't know %'s, but I do know of one: missouri [:p]
sorry i could not resist the temptation

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dekemd

QUOTE: Originally posted by missouri

QUOTE: Originally posted by RonInscho

Just My personal observation after 35 yrs. of railroading & motorist running in to the trains I am on is that the public is STUPID & until they get a lot smarter & are taught better driving skills the carnage will continue, & each time it happens the press is always there to record what happened to that poor motorist & make it sound like the train crew could have done something but chose not to, it is never mentioned that the crew has to live with this, as if that train is just a mindless thing that is always in somebodys way especially when they are in a hurry. I still think the old crossing signs said it best STOP, LOOK & LISTEN, if this was in practice 99.99% of all grade crossing accidents could be avoided

Like I said the brain washing must start early on when the job starts.

Missouri, I've never worked for the railroad, so I haven't been brainwashed. But I am a cop. RonInscho is right, a good chunk of the motorists on the streets are STUPID. I have seen more accidents, not just involving train collisions, that were caused by someone doing something stupid behind the wheel than you can imagine. The lastest was a woman who was trying to answer her cell phone while driving 45 mph. She ran a stop light and was broadsided by a tractor trailer. It was a miracle she survived. Key word is broadsided. The same word you used in describing the train collisions. Who was at fault in the accident I was at. It sure wasn't the truck driver. He had the right of way. The woman was cited for failing to stop at a red light and failure to yield. Same as in most of the collisions you have posted on this board. Motorist fails to stop for flashing red lights. Motorists fails to yield right of way to trains. Motorist at fault. It doesn't matter if the train is there 15 seconds after the lights start flashing or 2 minutes after the lights start flashing. Flashing red lights mean stop.

Derrick

Like I said the brainwashing starts early on in employment. You ever figure the LIGHTS were not big enough or bright enough. Where was the sun? Where was the sunvisor? What other vehicles were around.

What column on your accident report has sight obstructions or this vehicle folded like a acordian because it was made out of plastic. None to protet the city, county and the auto manufacturers. Like grannie always said "Many look and few see".

Sounds like the "idiots" need to have somebody else on THEIR payroll. Not some numbskull Barnie Fife.

[Mookie]

MO: W/o insulting any more of the world, can you tell us if there is anything or anybody in this world you don't hate? Is their any one organization or group that you are positive about or do you hate everybody?

Distressed!

[Anonymous]

We had a motorist run into the side of a unit coal train 45 cars back. Explain that one Missouri. She drove into the side of a friggin train! Oh yeah, I'll put on a dress if you wanna come dance with me. Any time bud, any time.
Ken