British Railway Operations

[Tulyar15]

Metro,

 To answer your questions:-

 1) I think your are right - I dont think there are any external differences between class 08 and 09 shunters.

 2) The Western Region diesel hydraulics were withdrawn after short lives because they constituted no more than 14% of the diesel fleet and with the decision to extend the electrification of the West Coast Main line northwards from Crewe to Glasgow in 1970 and the improving reliability of other diesel electric classes they became surplus to requirements. The 600hp D9500 class were sold on to industrial railways, both coal and steel, and many remained in use on these systems until the mid 1980s. (A few were even re-gauged to 5' 6" and exported to Spain!)

 Happy New Year to everyone!

[RudyRockvilleMD]

My wife and I took a side trip to Scotland on our return from a cruise down the Danube to Budapest, and she let me off the leash to do some railfanning for one day. My visit brings up a few questions.  

I was not aware of a significant change in one of the train operating franchises until recently; The Great NorthEastern Railway is out as the train operating company for the East Coast Mainline, and National Express (East Coast Trains) is in. Great NorthEastern Railway held the East Coast Mainline train operating franchise from the begining of privatization, why did that train operating franchise change hands? Who owned Great NorthEastern Railway? Did the high speed derailment of a Great NorthEastern Railway London-Leeds train north of London in 2000 have any influence on changing the East Coast Mainline train operating franchise?

When I asked the Edinburgh Waverly Station security about photographing trains in the station they told me it was ok to take pictures from the station platforms but not not to take any pictures of the entrances to the station. Did they mean the places where people or taxi's enter or leave the station, or does that also include the tracks leading into or out of the station, for example, the east end of the station throat?

The new infrastructure operator is now Network Rail, what happened to RailTrack? did it declare bankruptcy? 

I tried to buy a copy of the Network Rail 2007-2008 National Rail Timetable while I was in Edinburgh. I tried the W.H. Smith shop in Edinburgh Waverly station, but they didn't have it. Next I tried the railroad information counter in the Edinburgh Waverly Station, and the clerk told me Network Rail no longer publishes the timetable for sale to the public. He said something about it being too large. Did Network Rail actually stop publishing the National Rail Timetable for sale to the public? If so, why?

[cogloadreturns]

My wife and I took a side trip to Scotland on our return from a cruise down the Danube to Budapest, and she let me off the leash to do some railfanning for one day. My visit brings up a few questions.  

I was not aware of a significant change in one of the train operating franchises until recently; The Great NorthEastern Railway is out as the train operating company for the East Coast Mainline, and National Express (East Coast Trains) is in. Great NorthEastern Railway held the East Coast Mainline train operating franchise from the begining of privatization, why did that train operating franchise change hands? Who owned Great NorthEastern Railway? Did the high speed derailment of a Great NorthEastern Railway London-Leeds train north of London in 2000 have any influence on changing the East Coast Mainline train operating franchise?

When I asked the Edinburgh Waverly Station security about photographing trains in the station they told me it was ok to take pictures from the station platforms but not not to take any pictures of the entrances to the station. Did they mean the places where people or taxi's enter or leave the station, or does that also include the tracks leading into or out of the station, for example, the east end of the station throat?

The new infrastructure operator is now Network Rail, what happened to RailTrack? did it declare bankruptcy? 

I tried to buy a copy of the Network Rail 2007-2008 National Rail Timetable while I was in Edinburgh. I tried the W.H. Smith shop in Edinburgh Waverly station, but they didn't have it. Next I tried the railroad information counter in the Edinburgh Waverly Station, and the clerk told me Network Rail no longer publishes the timetable for sale to the public. He said something about it being too large. Did Network Rail actually stop publishing the National Rail Timetable for sale to the public? If so, why?

 

Answer to your questions. GNER (previous franchise holder) was a subsidiary of Sea Containers which went bust. They bid and received the franchise roughly 18mths - 2 yrs ago but then found that due to a combination of factors (the July 7th bombings being a major one) that they could not pay back the Treasury the premiums demanded for the franchise. So they handed they handed the keys in and the franchise was relet to National Express who are paying an even more Kamikaze premium profile and the economy is slowing...rapidly. Hatfield did have an influence on the previous franchisee but because it was a track fault on behalf of the infrastructure operator GNER managed (eventually and after much negotiation) to strike a deal in regards to damages.

I have no ideas re: photography - leave that to others.

Railtrack was placed into railway administration and this has been covered on this thread. The railways (operating) income in the days of Failtrack was decided by an independant regulator for a control period of 5(?) years. So a regulator trying to second guess what the cash requirements for an operating railway were - good system! And whatever the regulator decided the government had to pay...even better system! Anyway after a series of unfortunate events - Hatfield, the Heavens opening, internal inefficency of the system, serious cash burn, the way initial contracts had been decided.....Railtrack kept on going back and asking for more. I think the straw which broke the Camels back was that Railtrack paid a divi to its shareholders not long after asking the govt for a bail out (apparently to keep access open to the capital markets) so HMG pushed the company into "railway administration". As a result a not for dividend company was formed (Network Rail) and as it is backed by govt debt and garuntee the infrastructure owner and operator has been, to all intents and purposes, renationalised.

The National Railway Timetable published by NR has now been discontinued - however it can be found on Network Rail's website as a download. The reason for the discontinuation was due to rising costs and falling sales. However "private" versions have sprung up and these can be purchased.

Incidentally anybody stateside with an interest in the modern railway scene over here - can I recommend a free downloadable weekly (almost) mag - www.railwayherald.co.uk - will keep you up to date.  

 

[John Bakeer]

Cogload,

 Just taken up Railway Herald subscription, it looks like a good way to keep up without the fluff.

[RudyRockvilleMD]

Thanks for the explanations about the East Coast Mainline train operating company franchise, Railtrack, and the National Rail Timetable. I was sorry to see that the National Rail Timetable was discontinued since it listed the schedules of all of the passenger trains in Great Britain plus the Eurostar services and tourist railroad lines; it was very useful for visiting railfans although its thickness might have made it a little cumbersome to carry around.   

[Tulyar15]

I believe Platform 5 Publishing have taken on the job of publishing a printed copy of the National Rail Timetable. Not sure of their web address but their details are on the page listed below:-

http://www.applegate.co.uk/company/11/96/679.htm

Meanwhile during the festive season my brother has scanned in some slides he took of the two Lincoln station in 1983 before St. Marks station was closed that year:-

http://www.roscalen.com/signals/Lincoln/index.htm

There are still semaphore signals at Lincoln Central train (now just called "Lincoln") but they are due to be replaced this year.

On the Avon Valley Railway we've sold our 8F 2-8-0 to the guy who owns the two US Army 2-8-0's on the Churnet Valley Railway.

Happy New Year everyone!

[Tulyar15]

My brother tells me he's now scanned in all his 2000 slides which date back to 1970, and he hopes to put more on his webiste soon at www.roscalen.com/signals

I visited the Mid Hants Railway a couple of Sundays ago and was delighted to see #60019 'Bittern' running. The weather was good and I got some good photos.

[cogloadreturns]

Those taking advantage of any Open Skies deals and flying into Edinburgh be sure to look for the start of the new tram being built...in 3yrs time we maybe able to stand on Princes Street and not be run over by thousands of buses.

Good news that this is now well under way. The SG seems to be a touch more enlightened when it comes to railways than the administration down south..... 

[Tulyar15]

Well the only airports I'm likely to be flying to/from in the near future are Birmingham and Cork. I've now booked a holiday in Cork so that I can photograph the Cork - Cobh (pronounced "cove") line and Limerick Junction before they get re-signalled in the fall of this year.

Meanwhile I'm also off to Suffolk, and hope to visit the East Anglian Transport Museum near Lowestoft, (http://www.eatm.org.uk/), the Mid Norfolk Railway (http://www.mnr.org.uk) and Bressingham Museum. (http://www.bressingham.co.uk). If I get to visit the latter, then at last I'll the standard gauge Beyer-Garratt.

[cogloadreturns]

Well to bring news up to date:

 Network Rails funding looks like being cut by 30% in the next control period

The govt (cynically) and Network Rail are planning 5 high speed new lines (flying pig alert) after Fat Gordon got lambasted in the commons and the press took exception to the insistence of Whitehall that the future was diesel powered; if not bionic duckweed. The announcement over the new lines came a day after the Office of Rail regulation boss took aim and fired the howitizer in a speech lambasting short term planning; he hit the bulls eye.

The Scots Govt is building new lines like it's going out of fashion; Stirling - Alloa - Longannet (£40m over budget) for passenger and coal traffic; the Waverley (going ahead and Lord alone knows what the final total will be) to Tweedbank; Glasgow Airport Rail link (£220m and climbing); Edinburgh Trams (great to stand on Princes street and not be covered in bus fumes); Bathgate - Airdrie (£300m and wired - 4 routes from Glasgow - Edinburgh)  and hints of reopening the Leven route and possibly St Andrews (to help those golfers).

The Welsh government have reopened the route from Newport - Ebbw Vale after the tinplate and steel works shut, however trains are currently going to Cardiff as the signalling cant cope.

In Engerlund - nothing reopened. The WCML route modernisation is still rumbling on; late. NR are hoping that the final tranche (Trent Valley 4 tracking and Rugby) will be open for the December 2009 timetable change. In Cogloads part of the world there is the beginnings of the monster resignalling project which will see Reading, Slough Old/ New, Swindon A/B, Oxford and Westbury Panels shut and placed in a new signalling centre at Didcot. Plus £200m spent on various lines so that clearances are ready for 9"6 boxes without thrutching hell out of the track.

Cogload has recently returned from New Zealand and would thoroughly recommend a ride on the three long distance trains left; the Overlander, The Tranzalpine (Arthurs Pass) and the TranzCoastal (Picton/ Christchurch). The NZ govt have recently renationalised the railway system after it was flogged in the 80's and asset stripped.  

[Tulyar15]

I've returned from my holiday in Ireland and a few of my pics are on nwwrail.org.uk. I was blessed with good weather and managed to photograph most of the surviving semaphore signals on the Cork - Cobh (pronounced "Cove") line and at Limerick Junction. (If that station were in England, they'd have re-named it Tipperary Parkway by now as the real reason half the Dublin - Cork trains stop there is it's not a very long way from the county town!).

As far as locos go, I only saw members of Iarnrod Eireann's newest class, the EMD 201's apart from an EMD 076 #086 at Limerick Junction.


My onluy disappointment in Ireland was travelling 80 miles from where I stayed (Cork) to Tralee only to find the Tralee Steam Railway was not running, despite being told in the Tourist Information Office that it was running - see my comments at nwwrail.org.uk! .



I went to the Gloucester Warwickshire Railway's gala and was disappointed that SR 4-6-0 "Lord Nelson" was not running; I gather this loco has now gone to the Great Central Railway at Leicester. Still I got all the other locos for haulage and had a footplate ride on GWR 4-6-0 "Foremarke Hall" (a sister engine to the loco used in the Harry Potter movies!).

I've also visited the Mid Norfolk Railway and the East Anglian Transport Museum at Lowestoft - the latter has working trams and trolleybuses and a short 2' gauge line, diesel worked. The MNR is also diesel worked - my train was top and tailed by a 31 and a 20. It has lots of diesels - examples of classes 20, 31, 37, 47, 50, and 56 plus several DMU's and a Souther Region 3rd rail Motor Luggage Van (MLV) which can run on its batteries!

[John Bakeer]

Nice to see someone posting.

RailwayHerald has failed to appear this week.

Hope all is well? I will miss it very much if it has winked up? The web site is still functioning.

[John Bakeer]

Me and my big mouth!

RH is in my inbox....... HOOORAYYYY!

[Tulyar15]

I went to Bristol last night. On the way my train overtook 60 076 on a west bound empty merry go round coal train held in Oldfield Park loop, on the outskirts of Bath.

[John Bakeer]

Nice to see Tornado in steam.  

[Simon Reed]

Those who have followed this thread along it's long and tortuous journey may recall that I was involved in an attempt to resurrect an ALCo S1 at Railworld, Peterborough.

For various reasons this project was abandoned.

To recap, Five ALCo S1's were imported to the UK in 1949/50 to work in the Port Talbot Steelworks complex. They were retired in the early 1980's and three of them (801,803 and 804) entered preservation.

The historical signifance of these loco's cannot be overlooked - other than the few prototypes built by the LMS and SR these were the first big diesel loco's to operate in the UK, and predated large scale dieselisation in the UK by ten years.

It could be argued that their longevity and robustness was an indictment of the step missed by British Railways in failing to look to the established US market when embarking upon their scattergun dieselisation process.

Certainly they were the only US built standard gauge diesels in the UK until the "59's" arrived in 1986.

The good news is that some of those who were involved with me in the Peterborough project have now bought one of the other three - 801. The loco is shortly to be moved to Longhoughton, Northumberland and it's long term home is proposed to be the Aln Valley Railway.

It's owners have every intention of restoring it to operational condition as time and resources allow.

Should anyone want any more information please contact me. Although I have no share in the loco I have every intention of assisting the owners in any way I can, because I'd love to hear a McIntosh and Seymour 539 chugging through Northumbria!    

[John Bakeer]

I sympathise with Simon over the S1, it probably is the only standard gauge US deisel in the country and if for nothing else it is worthy of salvation. There are a number of US steamers built to European standards supplied during WW2 that are still around, but I am not aware of any that were built for the US Rail Roads being imported.

When I had a model railway layout, I had a Trix model of the S1 and a very attractive little [by US standards] loco' it was.

[mhurley87f]

Those who have followed this thread along it's long and tortuous journey may recall that I was involved in an attempt to resurrect an ALCo S1 at Railworld, Peterborough.

For various reasons this project was abandoned.

To recap, Five ALCo S1's were imported to the UK in 1949/50 to work in the Port Talbot Steelworks complex. They were retired in the early 1980's and three of them (801,803 and 804) entered preservation.

The historical signifance of these loco's cannot be overlooked - other than the few prototypes built by the LMS and SR these were the first big diesel loco's to operate in the UK, and predated large scale dieselisation in the UK by ten years.

It could be argued that their longevity and robustness was an indictment of the step missed by British Railways in failing to look to the established US market when embarking upon their scattergun dieselisation process.

Certainly they were the only US built standard gauge diesels in the UK until the "59's" arrived in 1986.

The good news is that some of those who were involved with me in the Peterborough project have now bought one of the other three - 801. The loco is shortly to be moved to Longhoughton, Northumberland and it's long term home is proposed to be the Aln Valley Railway.

It's owners have every intention of restoring it to operational condition as time and resources allow.

Should anyone want any more information please contact me. Although I have no share in the loco I have every intention of assisting the owners in any way I can, because I'd love to hear a McIntosh and Seymour 539 chugging through Northumbria!    

Good to know that the preservation of one of the Steel Company of Wales's ALCOs is still on the cards.

SCoW deserves credit not only for its judicious choice of ALCOs for its heaviest duties, but also for adopting the very best aspects of US diesel depot design for its modest servicing and maintenance shop, which design was the forerunner of British Railways' brand new Modernisation Plan Diesel Depots. 

P.S. British Railways weren't against importing diesels from the US per se, the country just didn't have the foreign exchange to pay for it. At that time, we were heavily in hock for the cost of WW2, and we didn't qualify for aid under the Marshall Plan!!

Hwyl,

Martin 

 

 

 

[Tulyar15]

I'm glad to hear that at least one of these historic locos is being saved.

I've heard a rumour that a couple of Irish Rail 121 class EMD Bo-Bo's are being imported to Britain but I dont know by whom. Presumably anyone importing them would need to not only re-gauge them to 4' 8.5" but also make sure they're not out of the gauge for whichever line they run them on.

A while back the Western Somerset Railway wanted to an import an ex-Irish Rail C class Bo-Bo diesel - one of the Metrovick diesels they bought in the 1950's that they re-engined with EMD power units in the 1970.s. However it was only offered without a power unit though I believe the WSR was aware of this and planned to fit it with a Maybach power unit which one member of the class had been re-engined with in the 1960's. But they failed to agree a price so the loco was scrapped.

[beaulieu]

Don't forget "Yeoman II" a fairly standard EMD SW1001 Switcher (Shunter) at the Mendip Quarry which predated the Class 59, is also pretty much standard US design.

[Simon Reed]

Bealieu - the SW1001 owned by Hanson Aggregates at Merehead Quarry is reported to be due for replacement soon, a development being keenly watched by the new owners of the S1!

Tulyar - I've not heard anything about the import and regauging of 121's. Many have been broken up recently and with Dublin's Inchicore works likely to contract in size soon more will be on their way. The ITG have staked a claim on at least one of the survivors (124 and 134).

Regauging would'nt really be a big job, depending primarily on the truck mounts/bearers compatibility with standard gauge B-B trucks available in the UK.     

[Anonymous]

Simon,

Thanks for mentioning us on here. The S1 is being jacked ready for loading today and should move to longhoughton by Monday.

 As for the Merehead SW1001, does anybody have any contact details for the quarry so I can begin a dialogue with them?

Rugby, posting on here for the first time in 2 years

[Tulyar15]

Don't forget "Yeoman II" a fairly standard EMD SW1001 Switcher (Shunter) at the Mendip Quarry which predated the Class 59, is also pretty much standard US design.

How could I forget "Yeoman II"?! I had a cab ride on it some years ago at an Open Day at Merehead.

Rugby Town - you could try contacting Foster Yeoman via Pathfinders Tours. They help FY run an annual outing for their staff, always hauled by a 59 and any spare seats are sold to the public via Pathfinder. Also on the Open Day mentioned above I travelled there on a Pathfinder Railtour.

Off to see the Terrier 0-6-0T "Martello" running on the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway tomorrow. If I have time I might stop off at Didcot on the way and see if I can catch site of this fabled blue Pannier Tank, which looks like an escapee from the Isle of Sodor!

[Tulyar15]

I had a very successful trip to the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway. I also saw the Blue Pannier running at Didcot, while I was waiting for the train at Cholsey. Whilst waiting on Cholsey station (first one east of Didcot on the GW Main line, where the preserved Cholsey and Wallingford trains run in to the bay platform beside the up slow line platform) I saw quite a few freight trains, including oil tanks hauled by 60 083 and the Venice Simplon Orient Express Pullmans cars hauled by one of the Royal 67's (I didn't get its number but hopefully I may be able to identify it from the video footage I took!). Sure enough the Terrier 0-6-0T arrived and I caught it to Wallingford.

As we were coming into Wallingford I saw former Steer Co. of Wales ALCO #803 (ALCO works #77777!) but not in a position where I could easily photograph it without trespassing. But after having a quite word with one of the C & W guys who just turned out to be the guy in charge of restoring #803, he escorted me down the line so I could take photos. I offered to make a donation towards #803 but he said they;ve got the money sorted so I donated some money to some of their other restoration projects. The driver of the steam loco also let me go on the footplate.

So all in all I thoroughly recommend the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway and I look forward to going back there when #803 is running!

[Tulyar15]

Last Saturday I had an enjoyable trip behind 40 145 on the Pathfinder "Torbay Whistler" rail tour. I joined the tour at Great Malvern. The tour went to Paignot via Hereford, the east curve at Newport (Gwent) Maindee junction - track which I needed - the Severn Tunnel and Bristol Temple Meads. The tour ran thru to Kingswear but instead I got off at Paignton and took a bus to Buckfastleigh in order to ride what used to be called the Dart Valley Railway but is now the South Devon Railway. Unlike the Torbay and Dartmouth they have proper signals and proper carriages too! GWR 2-8-0 #3803 was our loco in the SDR, the Worcester Loco soc's Pannier 5786 was also running, hauling another charter.

Then on Sunday I went up to Arley to film trains on the Severn Valley Railway (it was their autumn steam gala) running over Victoria Bridge. I managed to film visiting 4-4-0s "Earl of Berkeley" and "City of Truro", also the two "Manor" 4-6-0s, "Bradley" and "Erlestoke", GWR Prairie tanks #5526 and #5164 (little and large!) also LMS Class 2 mogul 46443. Weather was good too!

[Simon Reed]

Is'nt it amazing how spoiled we are here in the UK? I went to the Severn Valley on Friday - 12 working steam locos (13 if you count 7714 in steam on shed as a spare) of which I managed to ride behind 10.

Back home on Friday night then faced with the choice on Saturday of Embsay (45mins drive, 3 working steam locos) or Middleton (30 minutes drive, 4 working steam locos).

I went to Middleton in the end. A short railway but absolutely full of character, with a splendid new museum/visitor centre.

ALCo news - it arrived at Longhoughton this morning. More when I've heard more.   

[Tulyar15]

A friend who lives in Yorkshire went to Embsay and sent me some photos of LNER 4-4-0 "Morayshire" runninng there. I had toyed with the idea of going there myself, but as I've heard "Morayshire" is coming to the Llangollen Railway in the new year, which is easier for me to get to, I shall wait till then.

[Tulyar15]

Talking of  the Embsay Railway, on the Avon Valley Railway, which I volunteer on, we've just acquired a DMU from them.

 Our end of season gala on Sunday, November 2nd, was quiet, partly I suspect because we did not have any visiting locos and the DMU was the only "new" one.

From reading Roger Ford's comments in the latest issue of "Modern Railways" about the new General Electric locos (Class 68?) that Freightliner are buying, it sounds like they could be repeating the mistakes British Rail made back in the 1950's. Basically these new 3,700 hp locos will be powered by an Austrian design of engine which I believe has only been used so far in a couple of prototypes in that country. Definitely a high risk strategy in order to get increased horse power and power to weight ratio. 

 

[Murphy Siding]

     What's this I read somewhere, that some group in Britain scratch built a steam locomotive, just for shows and tours?

[Isambard]

Google "Toronado British Steam Locomotive" and you'll find a flood of references. £3 million and 18 years to produce the first mainline steam locomotive in Britain in 40 years, a Gresley A1 Pacific (4-6-2) design.