Boorishness on Amtrak Intercity Trains

[vsmith]

Almost caused a scene once...Traveling west on the Amtrack Zephyr, got to talking with some other passengers my age about the awfull food at the snack bar ( I was a student and couldnt afford the dining car prices ) we decided that when we arrived in Salt Lake City to call in an order for two large pizzas. We got in, found a pay phone, called, ordered, told them to deliver it to the front steps of Union Staion, they said "OK, we've done this before" got back onto the train and dam near started a riot from the other passengers who smelling the fresh pizza's suddenly looked more like lions in the Coluseum eyeing some fresh Christians. Some were very visably and verbally upset we brought those delicious, steaming hot pizza'a back to our coach. Luckily we managed to get out of the car to the lounge car without being savaged by the rabid congregation but it was a bit scary, got eyed in the other cars too. Anyway long story short, good pizza, great memory.

[jeaton]

I am one of the few remaining smokers, (I KNOW, I KNOW. No lectures, please.), and I used to spend some of my SuperLiner travel time in the smoking lounge. Some crews would not allow beverages of any kind in the lounge. On other trips, that sort of restriction was not enforced, sometimes "private stock" came out of the carry on and the conversations could get pretty loud. I can't say that that I ever witnessed anybody getting out of hand, but I often thought it was close.

The prohibition against on-board smoking is NO KIDDING. It is grounds for being set off at the next stop, and I think that an Amtrak crew member that fails to enforce the rule may find himself set off at the unemployment line. I, for one, will not even think of trying to sneak a smoke on board. And, I am not likely to be more than a car length away from the door.

On my trip last November, a passenger boarded at Las Vegas, NM. When the AC came by, he showed her a stub for a LA to Kansas City ticket. Turns out he had dropped off at Albuquerque for a smoke. Thinking he had time to spare, went accross the street from the depot which gave him a better view of the train leaving town. Not wanting to wait a day, he hailed a cab and $100 bucks later caught the train again.[D)]

Jay

[Anonymous]

Since alcohol regulations depend on the jurisdiction in which the train is travelling, my hunch would be that California has some pretty strict "dram shop laws," which forbid a barkeep's giving an obviously inebriated passenger that "just one more." Our guy had not only the ability to hold his liquor, but also no car to crash.

Nonetheless, if he committed most any kind of illegal grievance, started a fight, fell on someone, fell off the train, whatever, the road (Amtrak, I suppose) would be "deep pockets" liable because the guy selling beers is only acting as their agent. [:(]

Many years ago, the Southwest Chief was raided in Kansas and the bar shut down because the county thru which the train was passing was dry!!

[BNSF4ever]

I should relate a story that occurred while I was riding one of Amtrak California's Capitol Corridors from Emeryville to San Jose a few months ago. There were about four guys at a table in front of me just playing cards. They kept going up to the cafe car to get beers and they weren't causing any problem. But after a while, one of them returned and was upset. The cafe car attendant would not sell him another beer. He said that "You've had enough already." Well, this annoyed the four guys to no end. They said they had taken the train so they could drink and not have to drive. All four said they'd never ride Amtrak again.

I'm not sure if there is a policy that prohibits drink sales. In this case, the four guys were able to hold their liquor. On the Starlight, it was quite plain that many were not.

[Anonymous]

For years I've heard that The Cardinal is a great place for "smokin' and tokin'" in the dining car, which apparently goes into some kind of "twilight mode" after its official closing hour.

Any truth to that rumor? I don't necessarily condemn this, but I AM curious! [:I]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain

Another win for the private automobile?

I can see that you have never driven your private automobile in Austin, TX. At least the boorish behaviors described in this thread don't put other folks' lives in danger, except for the lady with the fork, maybe. Wait until you have some fool cut across four lanes of heavy traffic to shoot up an exit ramp at the last minute. I could easily put up with some smoking in the restrooms, loud talking, etc. easier than some drunk aiming a 2500 pound projectile all over the road on which I am driving!

[:(!][V][banghead]

[Junctionfan]

When I came back from Belleville, the train made a stop at Oshawa before terminating in Toronto. They picked up a gas-bag. This guy in my car, continually was passing gas making as much noise as possible doing it and really fouling up the place. Finally people go fed up and started yelling at the guy and the conductor escorted him off the train at Toronto and into an office at Union Station. Don't know what happened to him after that as I had to catch my connection to St.Catharines.

[chad thomas]

I average about one Amtrak trip every 3-4 years or so, therefore I don't have many miles racked up and have not seen too many incedents. But the last trip I was on in 03' there was a guy that did something really stupid. It was on the Starlight going from Klamath Falls,Or. to Vancouver,Wa. We stopped at Eugene for about 10 minuets and everybody was allowed to get off and smoke or whatever. After the stop we took off down the line and when we got up to about 25 MPH I heard someone on the scanner telling the head end to immediatley stop the train there was a rider hanging on to the outside of one of the cars. The train came to a stop and a few minuets later the conductor came into my car and escorted a very shaken up passenger to the seat behind me. He told the guy if he so much as moved from the seat he would be kicked off of the train, no ifs ands or buts about it. It turned out this clown went across the street to a store. The train started to leave before he returned so he decided he would rather grab on to the outside of the car then miss the train. This idiot was so annoying with his ranting that I had to move to anothr car. He's lucky someone spotted him before he fell off at 60MPH.

[BentnoseWillie]

On VIA conductors - there is no longer a "conductor" per se on VIA trains, but the customer-service (and control) role that the conductor played is still performed by an Onboard Service Manager. The train-movement role of the former conductor is performed by the In Charge Locomotive Engineer in the cab, usually the second man (both crew on VIA locomotives are qualified engineers).

The Service Manager and the ICLE cover everything that the conductor once did.

[Anonymous]

Um last I read that someone could drink from a flask on a amtrak train...then again i think it was in a private compartment

[eastside]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

The inroads of the cheap jets may be more than made up the general expansion of the desire to travel and increasing gas prices.

For Amtrak's sake, that would be the hope -- "a rising tide lifts all boats".

QUOTE:
Also cheap jets need air traffic control as much as big jets and there are capacity restraints in many parts of the USA already.

Also airport capacity.

The market that VLJs address have airports that are either underutilized or don't have control towers. Mostly they're in small towns, rural areas, or outlying metropolitan areas, e.g. Ely, Minn. to Frankfort, Mich. The main issue to their acceptance, as I see it, would be to overcome a perception of safety. Some would fly under visual flight rules, outside the control system. For controlled flight, the traffic system is evolving towards a point-to-point model.

[daveklepper]

The inroads of the cheap jets may be more than made up the general expansion of the desire to travel and increasing gas prices.

Also cheap jets need air traffic control as much as big jets and there are capacity restraints in many parts of the USA already.

Also airport capacity.

[eastside]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF4ever

On my ride on #14, the Coast Starlight on Sunday, there were at least three incidents on board that required the presence of the Conductor.
I overheard the conductor and staff talking about the first .A drunken woman in the dining car complained about some sauce, became belligerent and then threatened one of the diner staff with her fork. I don't know what the result was--the conductor and his assistant talked about getting some "form" to throw her off.

During this episode, I saw the conductor talking with a big guy in a t-shirt and jeans. He had an Amtrak ID badge slung around his neck. I am not sure if he was train crew or undercover security/law enforcement.

Later, our new conductor made a long announcement that you could not smoke in the lavatories nor drink alcohol purchased outside the train.

Beyond that, there seemed to be a few sleeper passengers a bit too fond of their drink. At least they didn't cause a commotion.

I've read in a trip report on On Track On Line about several passengers being tossed for smoking marijuana.

Not having ridden a non 403(b) Amtrak train in over 22 years, I was a bit surprised to see the number of incidents in a relatively short time.

Does anyone else have similar stories or was this an unique circumstance?

I guess that's the flip side of cheap fares. The riff-raff can afford it.[:D] Frankly, I think the standards of decorum have deteriorated much more on airplanes, but that's going back to the '60s for comparison.

On the other hand, I've wondered what people today would make of the formal atmosphere of the 20th Century Limited, for example, and where everyone behaved so correctly. Even the accents were different.

[eastside]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul Milenkovic
I wish Boeing the best of success with their Dreamliner.

What makes Amtrak's future so dire is the imminent arrival of very light jets (VLJ), a new type of airplane made possible by miniaturized jet engines. Eclipse, Adam, and Cessna will soon have them certified and start delivering. Eclipse alone has 2200 orders for their Eclipse 500. These planes are so cheap to operate that they'll be used as air taxis from any airport to any other in most of the US. They handle like light aircraft but have the avionics of airliners. Here are the specs for the Eclipse 500:

Price: $1.3 MM
Max cruise speed: 375 kt
Range 1280 nm
Useful load: 2250 lb

http://www.aopa.org/pilot/features/feature.html

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul Milenkovic


The worst part is the confinement -- I did 40 hours in coach on the Southwest Limited a long time ago -- that was confining -- as was any trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific flight. I remember telling my papa once on a trans-Atlantic flight not long after the Kosovo War about how things could even be worse -- Little Rock, Arkansas to Belgrade (and back!), non-stop, 6 mid-air refuelings would be a somewhat more confining journey.

Try Osan to Atlanta on the same plane with stops in Yakota, Hickam, Travis and March. And not being able to get off the plane.

Dan

Was that for training or punishment? (My return ride from Nam was a C-141 non-stop from Yakota to Travis. Love those planes with 6 and 6 seating, facing backwards watching the luggage pallet in the tail rocking with the motion of the plane. And from where I sat, I could see the window.)

Jay

Yeah .....punishment for being overheard saying..."I wonder which sucker they got tagged for this one?"

And yup..Travis and March on a charter L101......with no booze....

[andrewjonathon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

I thought Amtrak no longer had conductors.

I think it was Via Rail that eliminated conductors on trains a few years ago.

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul Milenkovic


The worst part is the confinement -- I did 40 hours in coach on the Southwest Limited a long time ago -- that was confining -- as was any trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific flight. I remember telling my papa once on a trans-Atlantic flight not long after the Kosovo War about how things could even be worse -- Little Rock, Arkansas to Belgrade (and back!), non-stop, 6 mid-air refuelings would be a somewhat more confining journey.

Try Osan to Atlanta on the same plane with stops in Yakota, Hickam, Travis and March. And not being able to get off the plane.

Dan

Travis and March?

[jeaton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul Milenkovic


The worst part is the confinement -- I did 40 hours in coach on the Southwest Limited a long time ago -- that was confining -- as was any trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific flight. I remember telling my papa once on a trans-Atlantic flight not long after the Kosovo War about how things could even be worse -- Little Rock, Arkansas to Belgrade (and back!), non-stop, 6 mid-air refuelings would be a somewhat more confining journey.

Try Osan to Atlanta on the same plane with stops in Yakota, Hickam, Travis and March. And not being able to get off the plane.

Dan

Was that for training or punishment? (My return ride from Nam was a C-141 non-stop from Yakota to Travis. Love those planes with 6 and 6 seating, facing backwards watching the luggage pallet in the tail rocking with the motion of the plane. And from where I sat, I could see the window.)

Jay

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul Milenkovic


The worst part is the confinement -- I did 40 hours in coach on the Southwest Limited a long time ago -- that was confining -- as was any trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific flight. I remember telling my papa once on a trans-Atlantic flight not long after the Kosovo War about how things could even be worse -- Little Rock, Arkansas to Belgrade (and back!), non-stop, 6 mid-air refuelings would be a somewhat more confining journey.

Try Osan to Atlanta on the same plane with stops in Yakota, Hickam, Travis and March. And not being able to get off the plane.

Dan

[Paul Milenkovic]

Had some trouble with your link on dialup -- may try it on broadband from somewhere else.

I wish Boeing the best of success with their Dreamliner. The most important comfort issue for me when flying (or any other public mode involving multi-hour confinement) is that the person next to me is not coughing and sneezing with a cold or flu that is going to make me sick for the next 10 days after getting off the plane. Colds are only supposed to be transmitted by touching your face after touching a surface, but try not touching your face for 6-12 hours (lengths of various overseas plane trips), and there must be some viruses that are airborne anyway.

The worst part is the confinement -- I did 40 hours in coach on the Southwest Limited a long time ago -- that was confining -- as was any trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific flight. I remember telling my papa once on a trans-Atlantic flight not long after the Kosovo War about how things could even be worse -- Little Rock, Arkansas to Belgrade (and back!), non-stop, 6 mid-air refuelings would be a somewhat more confining journey.

[Anonymous]

Paul,
Did you see the "60 minutes II" report about the market research guru last week? Among other things he's helping Boeing to make its 787 Dreamliner people friendly. Wish Amtrak could hire him to develop a rail service for today.

Here is script: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/05/60II/main706417.shtml

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/videoplayer/newVid/small_player/cbsnews_videoplayer.shtml?clip=/media/2005/07/08/video707763.wmv&sec=3475&vidId=3475&title=Cracking$@$Open$@$Your$@$Wallet&hitboxMLC=60II

[Anonymous]

Amtrak having no conductors? What am I missing? I thought the Conductor was "the boss" of a passenger train, outranking even the Engineer?!?

[banghead]

[Paul Milenkovic]

QUOTE:
Another win for the private automobile?

I don't think so. You have everything from drivers contending NASCAR style for road space to such pleasant things as gas stations, mini-marts, and fast-food restaurants.

I also think the comment goes in both directions. Some people on this site speak with horror of bus travel or auto and regard train travel as the ultimate in proper accomodations.

Travel is travel, and all modes have their drudgery, their boorish fellow users of the facilities, etc. Airplanes look really neat from the outside, but I don't really look forward to riding inside them apart from having to get someplace. If train travel seems like the antidote, well I guess we aren't riding trains as much anymore to get the full measure of them.

[Anonymous]

I thought Amtrak no longer had conductors.

[SALfan]

Any of the above behaviors would be a boring day on the Metro (subway) in DC. ALL of the above behaviors would be a tame day on the Metro in DC. The Metro Police do a good job with the numbers they have, but they can't be everywhere.

[Anonymous]

That sounds like a heavy dose for one train. Once, on no 9 I threw a guy off for lighting his headrest on fire with a lighter. There was a time on no 9 when it was a night train where we stopped at Sturtevant, I put the step box down and said, "Come on in and make yourselves feel at home." So this guy gets on, finds a seat and takes his pants off. We had a group of ladies traveling to Chicago for a bowling tournament once on no 8. They took over the entire big-dome car, got 10 plastic cups and watermelon, and were conducting their own bowling set right there in the dome. And then there was the time on no 7 when there was a duplicate sale in one of the sleepers. A well groomed family boarded and occupied a bedroom. At Glenview another well dressed family got on with the same room, and there were none left to spare. Both families squeezed into the room and started to battle. I couldn't settle the matter, so I closed the door and waited for the cops in Milwaukee. The room sounded like a bad-order washing machine with a load of sneakers in it.

Of course drunks are a special problem. We had to "goose" a drunk one evening on the 6.55 to Fox Lake in order to get him to leave the train. And then there was this fellow who boarded the midnight wearing a huge sombrero. He sat down, swivled his head from side to side, took off his sombrero, looked into it, and unloaded his evening meal. He then put the hat back on.

This all happened in the seventies. Boorish behavior is nothing new.

Mitch

[csmith9474]

Drugs, alcohol, and fightin'. Sounds about how I remember my last Amtrak trip. There was one other element missing, that also occured on my last trip, but we will keep this clean. I guess I should add that none of it involved me.[V]

[daveklepper]

A unique circumstance, I think.

[BNSF4ever]

On my ride on #14, the Coast Starlight on Sunday, there were at least three incidents on board that required the presence of the Conductor. I was not witness to any of these but we could all tell they were occuring by intercom announcements.

I overheard the conductor and staff talking about the first .A drunken woman in the dining car complained about some sauce, became belligerent and then threatened one of the diner staff with her fork. I don't know what the result was--the conductor and his assistant talked about getting some "form" to throw her off.

During this episode, I saw the conductor talking with a big guy in a t-shirt and jeans. He had an Amtrak ID badge slung around his neck. I am not sure if he was train crew or undercover security/law enforcement.

Later, our new conductor made a long announcement that you could not smoke in the lavatories nor drink alcohol purchased outside the train.

Beyond that, there seemed to be a few sleeper passengers a bit too fond of their drink. At least they didn't cause a commotion.

I've read in a trip report on On Track On Line about several passengers being tossed for smoking marijuana.

Not having ridden a non 403(b) Amtrak train in over 22 years, I was a bit surprised to see the number of incidents in a relatively short time.

Does anyone else have similar stories or was this an unique circumstance?