Fastest Steam engine ever in revenue service?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

The train is equipped with a new air-brake system that deploys in the event of an earthquake or other emergency. The retractable cat-ear-shaped spoilers that can protrude from the roof are expected to help slow the train more quickly than conventional brakes.

Does anyone think these earthquake brakes would do any good?

[vsmith]

from the newswire, just a little taste of how far down the ladder the US has fallen when it comes to rail transit..


"...New Japanese bullet train to cruise at almost 225 mph

TOKYO - East Japan Railway Co. (JR East) on Friday unveiled a new shinkansen - bullet train - in the town of Rifu, Miyagi Prefecture, that will run at speeds up to 223 mph, which may make it the world's fastest train, according to a story in the Japan Times. JR East aims to put the new bullet train - named Fastech - into service on the Tohoku Shinkansen Line in 2011, when a new section opens between Hachinohe and Shin-Aomori stations in Aomori Prefecture.

The new bullet train is expected to surpass the French national railway's high-speed TGV and West Japan Railway's Sanyo shinkansen train, which run at a speeds of just over 186 mph.

The train is equipped with a new air-brake system that deploys in the event of an earthquake or other emergency. The retractable cat-ear-shaped spoilers that can protrude from the roof are expected to help slow the train more quickly than conventional brakes. Each train has only one pantograph to reduce noise, down from two each on the current bullet trains. The test runs between Sendai and Kitakami, Iwate Prefecture, will be conducted at a maximum speed of 251 mph. ..."


California is about the same size as Japan, yet we can't even get Sacramento to even think beyond the next fiscal year...or their next election.[V]

[jockellis]

G'day, Y'all,
I just remembered that Clark Sims of Little Engines told me that the speed record for a 1/8 scale steam locomotive is over 60 mph. Times eight, that is a scale speed of 480 mph. So who knows how fast the big ones will really go?
Jock Ellis
Cumming, GA US of A

[CopCarSS]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

141 mph seems increadable.

That takes some HP. 9C1 Caprices/Impala SS's came stock with 260 HP from the factory, and 141 was about their top end in stock form. That's around 118 HP per ton! Granted, its comparing apples to avocados, but you'd still need a lot of HP for that. Then you'd have to put it to the track without breaking the running gear or the track.

[Modelcar]

...As for it being "true"...who knows....? But the figure has been repeated so often something around this 127 mph figure surely happened...As for creating "record books"....and which is accurate, official....with what standards...I'd suppose nobody knows.

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

The speed of the E2 7002 Atlantic being listed as 127 plus mph in some publications and then in others it's listed as doing the 3 miles in 85 seconds, so having two listings for the same run...two ways, kinda rules out the "typo"....The book that I last noticed it listed is dated 1943...and it was listed as the 85 sec. timing for the 3 miles. Of course we don't know if that is correct as for the "speed limit" for steam but neither do we "know" any other listing of others is any more correct.

What I'm saying is that if this is true why isn't it in the record book instead of Mallard???

[daveklepper]

141 mph seems increadable.

[mersenne6]

From an earlier period we have the following:

Distance Speed Date RR Loco
2246 50 7/9/1905 AT&SF ?
257 74.5 10/24/1905 PRR ?
15 98.6 3/24/1902 CB&Q 4-6-0
4.8 107.9 3/1/1901 S.F. & W 4-6-0
55.5 76.7 6/19/1906 Atlantic City 4-4-2

There are issues:
S.F.&W measurement was given by an officer of the road the grade was descending - 30 ft/mile
CB&Q - Run made on a descending grade which in parts was 32 ft/mile.
Atlantic City on this run a distance of 12 miles was traversed at 90 mph.

From Locomotive Dictionary 1906

[marknewton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 440cuin
The fastest steam engine in service today, excursion survice that is, is a German 4-8-4. It can run 100+ mph today.

18.201 is a 4-6-2, not a 4-8-4. It was authorised to run at 160kph maximum, but is curently permitted to run at only 140kph.

[Modelcar]

The speed of the E2 7002 Atlantic being listed as 127 plus mph in some publications and then in others it's listed as doing the 3 miles in 85 seconds, so having two listings for the same run...two ways, kinda rules out the "typo"....The book that I last noticed it listed is dated 1943...and it was listed as the 85 sec. timing for the 3 miles. Of course we don't know if that is correct as for the "speed limit" for steam but neither do we "know" any other listing of others is any more correct.

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

One time the PRRs Pennsylvania Limited,behind E2 atlantic 7002,was clocked at 127.1 MPH.

Then how come when you look in the record book it says LNER A4 Pacific #4468 "Mallard" 126 MPH?? That's some typo..

And that German site is just crazy..

[CopCarSS]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CHPENNSYLVANIA
Today the Pennsylvanian/Three Rivers can bearly keep it above 50mph 100 years after the Pennsylvania Special. I guess you call this progress.

True, but at the same time speed quit evolving on the railroad (at least in the US) and migrated to the roadways and especially to the air. I have yet to see any train (especially steam) that'll keep up with a 737 (and the 737 is comparitively slow compared to a 727 or a 747).

Had we been relagated to keeping our feet on the ground, and without the advent of the automobile, I'm sure we would have seen a lot of improvements in high speed rail, whether that would have been steam, diesel or most likely, electric.

[Modelcar]

...Yes, sadly the progress we have available to us now on most passenger rail routes.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...I have in front of me a Kalmbach book of 1943 and a photo showing the E-2 Atlantic engine and passenger cars...with this discription under the photo: "Worlds fastest train now or in 1905"...."On June 12, 1905, the Pennsylvania Special, predecesor of the Broadway Limited went three miles in 85 seconds..." It was a fast-stepping E-2 Atlantic. That would be a hair over 127 mph. Have no idea if that may still stand...I doubt it. But that was fast for such roadbed available then.

Today the Pennsylvanian/Three Rivers can bearly keep it above 50mph 100 years after the Pennsylvania Special. I guess you call this progress.

[jockellis]

G'day, Y'all,
A question for the locomotive engineers out there. What would happen if you finished a run and went in to the road foreman of engine's office and announced that you had just set a new, unofficial speed record for steam/diesel when you were supposed to be going well below that speed?
Jock Ellis
Cumming, GA US of A

[vsmith]

To help spread more fog into an already murky discussion.....Heres an interesting website to futher add Gasoline to the debate...

http://germansteam.info/fastestloco.html

check out the rest of the site, Verrrry Interesting!

[espeefoamer]

One time the PRRs Pennsylvania Limited,behind E2 atlantic 7002,was clocked at 127.1 MPH.

[vsmith]

The Mallard will always rule the roost when it comes to Official fastest, without documentation the rest is just hearsay. Fastest "Official" American record is still held by the NYC #999 at 112mph. I agree that in all likelyhood the fastest American loco's were several in the 4-4-2 Atlantic class, particularly the Milwalkee Road Hiawatha Atlantics, those were unusually fast engines.

[txhighballer]

Still, I wonder if, early one starry morning, somewhere out on the pairies, in either country, the two fellas looked at one another, one eyebrow arched slightly, and a half-smirk was exchanged. A slight nod, the Man reached for the cut-off and the regulator, and...well, somebody had to hear about it later.


More than likely, most of the fast runs anywhere were made just like that. A good steaming locomotive,fast track,and a willing engineer were the ingredients to make it happen. It was said that there were some locomotives that were so fast no one ever found out how really fast they were because no engineer was crazy enough to open her all the way up and find out.

[Modelcar]

....And good strong journals, bearings and material of the side rods, etc.....And if spoked wheels, somehow they held together at the counter weight side rotating at speed. I wonder about dynamic forces setting in at some speed and maybe getting so violent that it could have derailed on such tries of speed. But since we know it was done on many occasions somehow the machines survived...and of course the fellows running them.

[feltonhill]

Continuing...

Want to experience what it was like at 112 mph behind steam?? This will probably border on extreme cruelty because the record I'm about to mention is likely impossible to obtain now.

The album is:

The Triumph of an A4 Pacific
ASV Transacord number ATR 7009
Part of the Sounds of the Steam Age series

In 1963 the address was:

Academy Sound and Vision LTD
115 Fulham Rd
London, SW3 6RL
UK

On this LP is a carefully documented 112 mph run down Stoke Bank on a fantrip in 1959, You gotta hear it to believe it!!

Passing under the low bridges and narrow cuts prevalent on BR at peak speed is something to hear, especially under headphones. I hope someone can find a source for this album and post it here. I bought mine back in the 70's, which is forever ago by today's standards. But maybe the British or someone will still have this thing available. In any event, it's probably the only available source for the rest of us to experience what it was like to top the 100 mark. Must have required a lot of steady nerves up in the cab.....

[feltonhill]

Go away for five days and everything seems to happen here!!.

I have to agree that Old Timer gave the best overall summary of the speed situation. It's interesting to discuss, but no US official maximum will ever be established.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is this. In order to be a candidate for the extreme-high-speed sweepstakes, a loco should have these features: adequate boiler, small cylinders, short stroke and high drivers. Notice back in the old days, most of the early US speed records were x-4-x configuration, even with low boiler pressures. This is significant because the number of coupled axles has something to do with high speed potential. Large cylinders are not very efficient at handling large quantites of steam at high rotational speeds, and large reciprocating parts changing directions multiple times per second is too scary to imagine. Further, it's tough to get large amounts of steam into and out of the cylinders fast enough, let alone ask it to do some work while it's in there.

IMO, the best candidates of the modern speedsters are Milw 4-4-2's and the PRR T1, both mentioned here. These two met all of the above criteria. The only argument I can advance is this: at the extreme high end, the T1's poppet valves would have given it some advantage over the A's piston valves, because of the ability to regulate inlet and exhaust events individually. Machinery speeds at and over 500 rpm are getting pretty dicey, although it was accomplished. I believe the N&W J was somewhere around 528 rpm on its 110 mph+/- dash on PRR and home rails, and there is good documentation of a British 2-10-0 making about 90 mph with 63 inch drivers, which would be about the same rpm, IIRC.

It's fun to talk about and visualize, but we'll never know exactly what the old guys really experienced when they were running a little late and decided to make up some time.

[spbed]

Yes you & I viewed the same program on the History Channel. I heard it as Mallard [:o)][:o)][:o)]

Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Originally posted by spbed
[

Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

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