what were grade crossing accidents like During the steam years....

[eastside]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSSHEGEWISCH

Grade crossing accidents seem to have always been a problem. One needs to look at the safety campaigns of the Insull interurbans (especially North Shore Line) to see some of the efforts made in the 1920's to address the issue.

I have the sense that in the old days railroad-pedestrian-auto accidents were more common because there was so much more direct exposure of the public to trains. Besides streetcars and interurbans, many rail mainlines ran right down the main drags of many cities. Syracuse, NY, L.A., and Lafayette, Ind. come to mind. Imagine one of the NYC’s great steel fleet slowly trundling alongside your car. Inevitably many cars and trucks must have been dinged in all those decades. Also there was the quaint notion of individuals being responsible for their actions: if a train hit you, it was probably your fault because you were not keeping alert. Considering there were so many other ways of dying early in life -- disease, tainted food, industrial accidents, cars, etc. – I guess getting hit by a train wasn’t considered so remarkable.

[ChuckCobleigh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Cars were flimsier than the trains that hit them, ten or now. Moral of story: TRAIN IS BIGGER THAN YOU AND HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY!

Man, the last picture looked like the car that Laurel and Hardy had fall apart in (I think) County Hospital. Talk about re-kitting a vehicle.

[mudchicken]

Cars were flimsier than the trains that hit them, ten or now. Moral of story: TRAIN IS BIGGER THAN YOU AND HAS THE RIGHT OF WAY!


http://photoswest.org:8080/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?fullRecord+11742+594+623621458+6+4


Did not do well with streetcars either!


http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00185051+Rh-51

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00185129+Rh-129

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00190916+Rh-5916

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00185350+Rh-350 [xx(]

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00185405+Rh-405

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00185001+Rh-1

[Anonymous]

My late dad played in the SMU band in college in the 1930's. This was a very well-known and popular swing band (made Collier's Magazine in 1940) that traveled to away games with the team on the special train. Dad always said that the RR made it a practice to put a board across an open baggage car door or two so the students could hang out (try this today on a main line train at speed!). He said he was on a special going to Notre Dame in about 1939, up on the Alton, hanging in the door with a bunch of his buddies, running at about 100 behind steam (in those days, the Alton was a very fast line), when they nailed a loaded hay wagon at a rural grade crossing. Said the horses/mules went flying and the wagon itself exploded. They got off in Chicago and went up to the locomotive and found whole front end of the train was covered with hay, poked in all sorts of places.

The TX state archives has some photos taken after the T&NO Border Limited hit a truck full of migrant workers that ran a crossing down in the Rio Grande Valley in the late 1930's or early 40's. Not a pretty sight. Since this is a family website, will forego any further description. No one on train was hurt, if I recall correctly. Border Limited never ran behind diesels.

Crossing safety has always been an issue.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Grade crossing accidents seem to have always been a problem. One needs to look at the safety campaigns of the Insull interurbans (especially North Shore Line) to see some of the efforts made in the 1920's to address the issue.

[Richard A]

QUOTE: Also, were people actually smart enough back then, that they would wait for the train to go by?

This is not about steamers hitting vehicles at grade crossings, but rather steamers setting out or picking up cars at sidings near a crossing. In the late 40's I spent many days at my godmother's home located about 40 yards from the SP (T&NO) double main through El Paso, Texas. During the times of the day when the Sunset Limited and other passengers trains were elsewhere, steam switchers would work at several plants in the neighborhood.

Invariably, the main grade crossing in the area would be fouled, sometimes for 10-15 minutes at a time. Impatient PEDESTRIANS would try to get across the tracks by sneaking between freightcars as the train stood motionless. I guess most made it. But for many years 3-4 people each year would get caught between cars when the switcher would move the train, either taking in slack or moving along to the next siding. Before I was 10 years old I had already seen 3 people lose limbs or life while trying this stupid stunt.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68


There is a reason why NYC made most of what is now the Chicago Line through NYS free of crossings.

Is that why many NYC steam locos used in freight service had foot boards instead of more traditional pilots? The practice wasn't limited to older secondary power but was common on Mohawks used for fast freight service and I've wondered if there were federal rules on pilots. Also, why did drop down and swing away front couplers appear on many modern non-streamlined steam locos?

[ValleyX]

Wow, only six vehicles in a career? Must've not been a very long career or he spent a lot of time in the yard or he was on a railroad with a lot of grade separated crossings. Or, he was fortunate. Most engineers I've known haven't been so fortunate as to only have hit six vehicles, one fellow I knew had hit about forty-eight by the time he retired, both steam and diesel, and had hit one on his first job running as an engineer. Talk about nervous! He was a fanatical whistle-blower, too.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by sammythebull

For many, many yrs what was known as the most dangerous grade xing in KS was Santa Fe's crossing at 13th st in Wichita. Many deadly wrecks took place there in both the steam & diesel yrs. THe city had approached the rr in 1918 about placing gates but they were not put in until 1970. It is interesting to note from police files that in the 35 yrs since the gates were put in place, only one reported grade xing accident took place there and that only involved a switch eng pushing a cut of cars over the street at walking speed. If drivers obey the flashing lights & bells, no one gets hurt. It that simple.

I absolutley HATE that part of town! Sometimes when BNSF comes through, a UP goes on the independent track and if you are lucky, get stuck between crossings! But it is in the middle of scary-ville where all the murders and shootings are!

[tatans]

I knew a steam hogger who watched a farmer in a grain truck coast to a crossing and stall on the track, the farmer jumped out and ran back to a field as the engine hit the truck,he said it split the truck and the grain came back like a shotgun, pelting his face(i remember his face looked like the measles) after the train stopped he walked back and the farmer was still standing in the field unable to talk. He always said it was nice to have 40 feet of boiler out in front of you. When he retired he said he had hit 6 vehicles, thankfully he said, none were gasoline trucks.

[tree68]

Consider the construction of vehicles up to about the mid 30's - open. No air conditioning, no blasting stereos, danged few windows to roll up. On top of that, railroads were a part of the national psyche - people were actually aware that they existed.

On the other hand, I'm sure there was a percentage of drivers who either didn't pay attention or were in a big hurry then, too. And in the early days, there simply were no gates, bells, or lights.

There is a reason why NYC made most of what is now the Chicago Line through NYS free of crossings.

[Anonymous]

For many, many yrs what was known as the most dangerous grade xing in KS was Santa Fe's crossing at 13th st in Wichita. Many deadly wrecks took place there in both the steam & diesel yrs. THe city had approached the rr in 1918 about placing gates but they were not put in until 1970. It is interesting to note from police files that in the 35 yrs since the gates were put in place, only one reported grade xing accident took place there and that only involved a switch eng pushing a cut of cars over the street at walking speed. If drivers obey the flashing lights & bells, no one gets hurt. It that simple.

[Anonymous]

Here's a nasty thought: Grade Crossing accident involving horse and buggy or wagon......

[jchnhtfd]

Question A1: steam engines react much more poorly to grade crossing accidents than diesels, for a variety of reasons, and it was much less unusual for a steam engine to derail. Question A2: the inside of a steam enging cab is not a very friendly place, and it was not uncommon for the engineer, fireman, head brakeman, or some combination of the three to be killed. Unfortunately.
Question B: No... but there were fewer of them. People in cars, that is.

[Anonymous]

How did the steam Engines react to hitting cars back then, and were there any major injuries to the engineer? Also, were people actually smart enough back then, that they would wait for the train to go by? Thanks,
Brad