Railroad Musuems

[AlcoRS11Nut]

I would like to see your personal views on this subject.

Background
There is a musuem in my area that has two locomotives an ALCo S3 and an ALCo S6, the Museum didn't keep the two in there original paint. The S3 is painted up in the GB&W scheme of Red, Gray & Black, and the S6 is painted in CNW colors. The S3 originally belonged to the Manistique & Lake Superior as their #1. The museum painted it in the GB&W colors "represent" a GB&W S2. The S6 was once an SP unit but was sold to a paper mill and was painted in Red & Black. Niether locomotives ever belonged to the Railroads schemes they are painted in. The railroads (CNW & GBW) never even owned a S6 or a S3.

The question is.......

would you rather have a locomotive in a "proper" paint scheme. "Proper" meaning a paint scheme that the locomotive once wore in regular service, or the museum's own paint scheme.
---------------------------------------------OR-----------------------------------------
In any scheme the museum chooses because you really don't care as long as the locomotive looks halfway decent.

[UPTRAIN]

I work at a museum in Missouri ( www.pbrail.org )...We are housed in a former Frisco depot, we have a UP Baggage Car, an MP Caboose, and an ex-NH caboose painted in Frisco colors...it would not really seem suited to have a New Haven caboose in our yard when cars like that were never seen anywhere in this area. We are just tickled to death to have any equipment since we are not on line anymore, the former MP now UP runs a quarter mile away, so the town is as much of a MP-UP town as a Frisco town. So...I think if you get a piece of equipment that belongs to the heritage railroad of the line or structure, paint it in that scheme...if you're like us and have a NH caboose in Missouri in Frisco paint, go for that too!

[Green Bay Paddlers]

Trying to figure out which museum you speak of... :)

My first concern is that the locomotive is well-cared for. That's my first concern. There is an E9 at "my" local museum that it's horrible shape. I'm hoping the money comes in to allow a full refurbishment. I look at pics of the BN E9's used on the racetrack of my childhood being stripped down that it eats at me. Very sad...

WIth that said.... I would of course like to see these locomotives put back in their original colors. However, I also understand how lousy funding can be for these museums. They need to do whatever they can to get people in there. If that involves painting diesels up in "foreign" colors in order to get the locals in there - then that's okay. It's for the good of the museum (and the funds will pay to have that E9 re-done!)

It's a Catch-22. You're always going to offend someone. The museum has to do what they can to keep the museum going. That's a #1 priority!

[cnw4001]

It comes down to the philosophy of the museum. If they choose to be protype then they've got to do that route, if they don't then another scheme would be ok.

And following this logic, prototype can be a livery other than the original. Just look at what's going up and down the track on many of the shortlines in colors other than the original.

Dale

[Anonymous]

Both responses have a lot of truth in them.
I belong to two museums... only one of which has an E8 in original colors (it's a SOUTHERN diesel from the CRESCENT sets.) Both museums have industrial siding type rides... a shove forward and a shove backwards, by ex Army industrial switchers. Both switchers are painted up very nicely in the colors of the "museum road".

The joy is in watching them run and climbing over them. Thanks to numerous books and rail fan photography on the net, I have a pretty good idea what they looked like new.

What drives me crazy is the Thomas the Tank engine phenomena... which to me demeans railroading- a hard and dangerous business- into a fairy tale. Practically speaking, though, without a Thomas appearance once a year, "my" museum couldn't afford to keep up their right of way, or refurbish some of the unique historical pieces of machinery they have there. So, what's the answer? If Thomas helps find the funds that take a Southern FT-B out of the weeds, clean it up, and make it a functioning part of a display... then bring on Thomas.

Erik

[daveklepper]

I agree. At the Shore Line Trolley Museum, Branford and East Haven Connecticut, in my younger days an old Connecticut resident, Jules Stribie, had Connecticut Company railroad-roof wood suburban car 1339 painted dark green with white trim and lettering, like the almost identacle New York and Stamford (ran from New Rochelle to Stamford) cars that passed his home up to about 1935. He felt there were plenty of other yellow with red trim Connecticut cars at the museum. Nobody complained because it was "his" car and he maintained it. I was usually his helper (conductor) as crew, but he would let me run it now and then, since I'd already qualified as an operator.

After he passed on, the car was undermaintained, and the Museum did take possession of it. I understand it is now in Charlotte, NC, part of that heritage downtown trolley line's collection. I'll be interested in seeing whether they have it painted as a Connecticut Company car or like the cars that ran in Charlotte in the old days. The heritage line is now being incorporated into a much larger light rail system, but heritage operations will also continue. I think they have some Gemoco double-truck Birney replicas and perhaps one or two genuine Charlotte cars rebuilt. They have a website.

[Anonymous]

I think it depends on how much equipment they have and if the units are being used for regular operations. In addition to fund raising and attendence, another problem museums have is a take it or scrap it decision when equipment is donated or suddenly becomes available. The Illinois Railway Museum has a lot of euipment like that incliding Milw F Units, an SP 2-10-2 in very rough shape, and countless freight cars and waycars. Sometimes the cost of things like moving the ATSF Northern from the Museum of Science & Industry means reallocting restoration funds. IRM won't be running steam this year because restoration of UP 428 is behind and the Frisco Decapod needs significant FRA-mandated work.

[CopCarSS]

While I can understand the predicament, I don't see too much of a problem with it. I'm assuming the museum you refer to resides someplace in the Great North Cheese Country (Go Packers!). If that's the case, the SP paint scheme would look kind of silly, and chances are that the Grandparents taking their 7 year old to the train museum will not have heard of the Manistique & Lake Superior.

I think going with a couple attractive, local, well known paint schemes is probably a good idea to hook the majority of the crowd heading to the museum. Sure, there will be some enthusiasts like us that might have a small issue with it. At the same time, I'd just let it go, and grab some pictures of ALCo's in some good looking paint schemes. While it may not be completely true to the past, most diesels can fake it very well. It's not like they're painting a Reading T1 in Chessie System colors....oh wait...that's already been done! [;)]

[MP57313]

I would rather see equipment in its "true colors", but recognize that we can't always have it that way. This is not limited to locomotives, but other rolling stock, signals, etc. On the other hand, if the folks who are going to the trouble of preserving things feel the need to paint them one way or the other, there is little you can do.

If an item is loaned to the museum, then the owner should have full say as to what can or cannot be done with the item.

On the other hand, if the museum owns the item outright, they can pretty much do what they want with it.

If there are any museum curators out there, do you have any comments?

Several years ago I was on a local museum board. The museum's newest piece of equipment was a retired Santa Fe caboose, acquired in the late 80s or early 90s. It included some chalk markings on the side, including the "epitaph date" when it was taken out of service. At some point the museum management thought the caboose should be repainted because the paint was fading. The caboose was repainted, and the large Santa Fe herald, roster number, etc. were repainted. But some of the other original imformation was lost in the repainting.

One of the former museum board members saw the repainted caboose, and was irate![:(!][:(!][:(!]. Turns out by repainting the caboose, it was downgraded form an 'artifact' to an 'exhibit'. It was no longer 'authentic' after the repainting was done.

MP

[DPD1]

I personally would rather see things restored historically. But I could see where smaller organizations might not have that luxury, since they're just trying to get people through the gate. The fact is, a lot of people that go to the museums, really don't have very in-depth knowledge of what's accurate or not. They just want to throw their kid up on the choo choo.

But if you think trains are bad, there's some real injustices done to planes out there too. The very last F-14 produced spent most of it's life in CA in a beautiful jet black paint scheme. It was one of a kind, and probably the most famous F-14 ever flown. When the last F-14 unit on the west coast that it was in stood down, they took the black F-14 to the east coast, shoved it on a stand, and painted it in some lame 70's scheme that it had never worn in it's life. A real crime.

Dave
-DPD Productions - Featuring the NEW TrainTenna LP Directional RR Radio Monitoring Antenna-
http://eje.railfan.net/dpdp/

[emmar]

I think that any railroad equipment at a museum should be in the paint of one of its former owners. However I do know that some museums will paint equipment with the paint scheme of a railroad that it never worked for because it will appeal to ignorant tourists and bring in more business for the museum. (It is sad that any museum should have to stoop to tactics like that in order to get enought visitors.

[SSW9389]

The Arkansas Railroad Museum in Pine Bluff, Arkansas has several paint ideas going. The Cotton Belt 4-8-4 #819 and GP30 #5006 are in authentic paint, as is Bay Window caboose #83. The recently acquired RSD-12 will be restored to Southern Pacific paint and the RSD-15 will be restored to Santa Fe paint. The 2-6-0 #336 will be cosmetically restored to Cotton Belt paint. When it finally gets out of Houston the Cartier C630 is to be painted at North Little Rock back to UP paint.

On the other hand there are at least seven passenger cars that are all painted up in a light gray paint scheme for when and if the 819 ever gets on the road again. The 819 needs some serious flue work before she can be recertified. There is also a little blue GE 25 Ton diesel that I don't know what scheme she will end up in. The Southern Pacific Bay Window Caboose #125 is in a one of a kind ceremonial red paint scheme and used by the museum for birthday parties. It's interior has been completely changed to more of a meeting room format with a kitchen, table and chairs, and railroadiana decor.

The Arkansas Railroad Museum is operated by volunteers from the Cotton Belt Rail Historical Society.

[espeefoamer]

I think a unit should be painted in a scheme it wore in actual service.If an engine wore several schemes,or worked for more than one owner, any scheme it wore in service would be acceptible.Painting an engine for a road that never ran that model should NEVER be done[:(!]!

[BNSFGP38]

Doesnt really bother me. Conway Scenic did a nice intepritation of the B&M war bonnet scheme.

I say keep it original of its a rare pieice of equipment...... But is a freakin GP-38 or something else common as dirt........go for something looks good.