Trains and Tornado Warnings...

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChrisBARailfan
I work in a open campus office complex and nothings changes when a tornado warning is issued, we stay at our desks or in our meetings and go about our business.

Will the company pay for your funerals?
Will they put on your gravestone:
"HE STAYED IN THE MEETING UNTIL IT THE END.
TOO BAD HE ENDED WHEN THE MEETING DID"?

If you have ever been in the vicinity of (or worse, been in) a tornado and see what unbelieveable destruction they can cause, my bet is that your attitude would not be so cavalier.
An F5 tornado (up to 300mph winds) has the potential to erase your building (and you) from the surface of the planet.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Willy2

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

As for as I know all Trains are to come to a complet stop until the storms pass.
BNSFrailfan.

We had a tornado cloud pass right over Lincoln and the trains just kept rolling. The sirens were competeing with the whistles.

Mookie

Yeah, Mookie, I saw that on KM3 News that evening. They were showing live video and it looked like the wall cloud was really close to producing a tornado. Could have even been a funnel, but I couldn't quite tell. It also looked like it was right over a spot where I have watched trains before. lol.

Willy - last time that happened was 1975 - and it passed over Lincoln just like this one and then took a big chunk out of Omaha!

According to the tv, we were 10 blocks west of the edge of the cloud. Now they have it down to the blocks in town that are safe and unsafe! [%-)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChrisBARailfan

Cause I am a casual fan I do not know about much about the workings of a railroad, but are some of you saying that UP or BNSF will stop a train because of severe weather, ie tornadoes?

I would think that as a dispatcher I would get chewed for saying that I stopped the BNSF Transcon for a tornado warning or some other severe weather event. I would think if that was done nothing would ever move some evenings in Kansas and Oklahoma.

I work in a open campus office complex and nothings changes when a tornado warning is issued, we stay at our desks or in our meetings and go about our business.

1. Absolutely they'll stop them for a tornado in the vicinity. Didn't used to, though. Not being facetious or pedantic, but I'm aware of a mainline hotshot TOFC train at the end of that last era that ran right into a known twister at speed. Dumped over 90 carloads of TOFC and tore up over a mile of main line. Do that a couple of times and you figure out really fast that it makes sense to stop the train. And that's not withstanding the crew risks (one of the crewmembers went to the investigation and testified that he thought he was going to die--and he was at that risk). The Jarrell TX tornado or a spinoff (sorry--really BAD pun) picked up and flipped the 26 ton tender of SP 786. See this photo (from another post here today just up above in this thread) for an example of the results if you don't stop:

http://vgalleries.com/templates/templatedispatch.jsp?templateset=default&template=single_image&pictureid=4460&prev=4459&galleryid=355

2. Some stormy evenings in the alley, they don't move. Before they began stopping them for tornados, that was also the case. Severe storms have the nasty habit of snafu-ing the signals.

3. I would suggest your office staff take tornado warnings a little more seriously. That doesn't mean diving under the desk at the first sign of a warning (which generally covers a relatively large geographic area compared to the size of the vortex), but more prudence than the casual indifference you describe would be prudent. Might save your life one day.

[Anonymous]

On the Santa Fe they had high water detectors at bridges. if you had high water it would say "You have high water. Stop your train." If you didn't have high water it would say "You have no high waer. You are clear to proceed."

[Willy2]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

As for as I know all Trains are to come to a complet stop until the storms pass.
BNSFrailfan.

We had a tornado cloud pass right over Lincoln and the trains just kept rolling. The sirens were competeing with the whistles.

Mookie

Yeah, Mookie, I saw that on KM3 News that evening. They were showing live video and it looked like the wall cloud was really close to producing a tornado. Could have even been a funnel, but I couldn't quite tell. It also looked like it was right over a spot where I have watched trains before. lol.

[ChrisBARailfan]

Cause I am a casual fan I do not know about much about the workings of a railroad, but are some of you saying that UP or BNSF will stop a train because of severe weather, ie tornadoes?

I would think that as a dispatcher I would get chewed for saying that I stopped the BNSF Transcon for a tornado warning or some other severe weather event. I would think if that was done nothing would ever move some evenings in Kansas and Oklahoma.

I work in a open campus office complex and nothings changes when a tornado warning is issued, we stay at our desks or in our meetings and go about our business.

[william6]

In at least one case, an Amtrak train was stopped and held for about 45 minutes while a tornado warning was in effect. Here's what happened last Saturday evening, June 04, 2005, at Osceola, Iowa.
The westbound California Zephyr on that evening, was running about 6 minutes behind schedule when it arrived at Osceola to make it's usual station stop (on time is 7:59PM). It was raining and there was a tornado warning in effect for an area which included Osceola at that time. The CZ stopped, boarded a few passengers, then moved forward approximately a half mile to where it didn't block any streets, and stopped again, this time to wait out the tornado warning until it expired. The train didn't move for approximately 45 minutes. It was raining hard most of that time, but I don't know if any funnel clouds were sighted or not. There were no reports of storm damage that I know of. The CZ was about 45 minutes late getting into Denver, CO the next morning (Sun., June 05).
I know this because my wife got on the train and I was talking to her on our cell phones while the train was stopped, and later when she arrived in Denver.
W.

[Mookie]

At least we have very "neat" tornados!

[spbed]

In case you have not seen them check out the pix from a tornado that I saw in Nebraska in May near Central City. I also wonder why they were still running trains thru the corridor with new warnings on the TV every few minutes of severe weather in the area. [:o)][:p][:D]

http://vgalleries.com/members/railfan1/The+Trainfan.vrg

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

As for as I know all Trains are to come to a complet stop until the storms pass.
BNSFrailfan.

We had a tornado cloud pass right over Lincoln and the trains just kept rolling. The sirens were competeing with the whistles.

Mookie

Ya I saw that. I was watching the whole thing take place on KM3. It was a mess that night. There was a ball game right in Lincoln right when the Storms came roaring in. BNSFrailfan.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

As for as I know all Trains are to come to a complet stop until the storms pass.
BNSFrailfan.

We had a tornado cloud pass right over Lincoln and the trains just kept rolling. The sirens were competeing with the whistles.

Mookie

[railfan619]

yeah i beleave that trains and there crews should have computers or cell phones with the weather channel or weather updates everytime they go into another state like kansas or wisconsin because they never know what they are going into. I read on trains page that in kansas a up train was blown over by high winds and thought it may have been a tornado.

[Overmod]

Seems to me that most of the flash floods in the West occur at what can be a considerable distance from the actual precipitation event, or the storm or storm-train track, and result from drainage of a watershed -- therefore being somewhat later than an actual storm. This would argue for extended speed or watch restrictions based on weather patterns, not necessarily coordinating with visible weather events. Are there 'advance sensors' in watercourses prone to flash flooding, coordinating with a system like that involved in slide fencing, which give some indication to crews about actual rising water and high water level at bridges and in washes?

There would be an obvious difference for, say, storms with high winds passing through areas of known wind risk, for example high bridges, where trains have cars known to suffer in such conditions ... unloaded auto racks, or empty pulpwood cars perhaps. I have no idea what rules might govern operations in those locations, and invite comment on that point.

It's my opinion that the communication systems available to engineers aren't optimized to give them continuous tracking and storm information with regard to tornadoes. You'd need to calculate the expected track of the funnel, as well as the potential intersection with the extended train as it slows or stops from track speed: not much point in stopping if by doing so you allow the debris path to include some cars from the train; I'd think it at least possible that some of the draft force through the couplers in a moving train might tend to restrain cars from tipping or lifting under wind pressure, while standing cars might more easily flip. I would not expect an 'advanced' storm-tracking system to be considered particularly cost-effective by railroad management... ;-} although it would be fun to see somebody gin one up to work with modern 'on-screen' displays...

[Junctionfan]

I would think that they would stop too because of the possibility of debris on the tracks ahead. Not to mention, if the tornado crosses the line, not only are the tracks at risk of being ripped apart but also a signal or something important like that.

[Anonymous]

As for as I know all Trains are to come to a complet stop until the storms pass.
BNSFrailfan.

[mudchicken]

Chris: You noticed the trains, you should also have had the opportunity to see the multiple motor track inspectors out there along with MTM's highrailing just behind the storms. It's not the immediate storm sometimes, but rather the drainage basins gathering water 30 minutes to an hour later. The three way chatter between trains, hi-rails and Harriman Center can tell you an awful lot about local conditions. The Class 1 railroads all have custom weather services tied to their dispatching centers and communications systems.

[wabash1]

on the ns we are notified and if its tornado its no rule. if it is flash flooding we have to go slower i would haft to look it up ( i think half of track speed) till the warning is up.

[CopCarSS]

So yesterday I was storm chasing again, and my path generally followed the Limon sub of the UP. I kind of started wondering about something.

The storms we had yesterday produced a couple funnel clouds, and caused a couple tornado warnings to be issued (the storms later became high precipitation monsters that caused lots of flooding, but no more tornado threats).

My questions is this: Are train crews alerted during tornado warnings, and if so what are they to do? Is there some protocal for crews to follow? I only ask because I saw a couple trains on the Limon sub that were just running around business as usual.

Additionally, as I mentioned, these storms became HP storms, dropping as much as 3 inches of rain per hour, and causing lots of flash flooding. The Limon sub crosses many streams, inclunding Kiowa Creek at Bennet, and I'm sure some of you have heard of the "Lost Locomotive of Kiowa Creek," which was popularized by author Clive Cussler in his book "The Sea Hunters." What are crews told to do when approaching potential water hazards during flash flood warnings? Here again, it did not seem like the UP crew had been notified, or did not care too much if they had. I paced them as they crossed a couple creeks, and the train speed was about 43 mph. I can't imagine stopping a train for a washed out bridge from 43 mph would be very easy.

Thanks in advance for any answers!