Simple Questions

[Mookie]

You know Dan - between you and me - I'm gonna get one of those blue lights for Millie.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie



A PRAN 2-02
DR PRAN 2-02
DO PRAN 2-02
T

Mr and Mrs Pran had triplets (T) all born on 2-02.

[oubliette]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

GCOR rule 5.13 reads....<snip>

Thank you for that detailed reply, very interesting reading.

[edblysard]

GCOR rule 5.13 reads....

5.13 Blue Signal Protection of Workmen
This rule outlines the requirements for protecting railroad workmen who are inspecting, testing, repairing, and servicing rolling equipment. In particular, because these tasks require the workmen to work on, under, or between rolling equipment, workmen are exposed to potential injury from moving equipment.

Blue Signal Protection of Workmen
As used in this rule, the following definitions apply:
Workmen. Railroad employees assigned to inspect, test, repair, or service railroad rolling equipment or components, including brake systems. Train and yard crews are excluded, except when they perform the above work on rolling equipment not part of the train or yard movement they are handling or will handle.


"Servicing" does not include supplying cabooses, engines, or passenger cars with items such as ice, drinking water, tools, sanitary supplies, stationery, or flagging equipment.
"Testing" does not include an employee making visual observations while on or alongside a caboose, engine, or passenger car. Also, testing does not include repositioning the activation switch or covering the photo-electric cell of the marker when the rear of the train is on the main track. The employee inspecting the marker must contact the employee controlling the engine to confirm that the train will remain secure against movement until the inspection is complete.
Group of Workmen. Two or more workmen of the same or different crafts who work as a unit under a common authority and communicate with each other while working.
Rolling Equipment. Engines, cars, and one or more engines coupled to one or more cars.

Blue Signal. During the day, a clearly distinguishable blue flag or light, and at night, a blue light. The blue light may be steady or flashing.

The blue signal does not need to be lighted when it is attached to the operating controls of an engine and the inside of the engine cab area is lighted enough to make the blue signal clearly distinguishable.

Effective Locking Device. When used in relation to a manually operated switch or a derail, a lock that can be locked or unlocked only by the craft or group of workmen applying the lock.

Car Shop Repair Area. One or more tracks within an area where rolling equipment testing, servicing, repairing, inspecting, or rebuilding is controlled exclusively by mechanical department personnel.

Engine Servicing Area. One or more tracks within an area where engine testing, servicing, repairing, inspecting, or rebuilding is controlled exclusively by mechanical department personnel.

Switch Providing Direct Access. A switch that if used by rolling equipment could permit the rolling equipment to couple to the equipment being protected.

A. What a Blue Signal Signifies

A blue signal signifies that workmen are on, under, or between rolling equipment and requires that:


Rolling equipment must not be coupled to or moved, except as provided in "Movement in Engine Servicing Area" and 'Movement in Car Shop Repair Area" of this rule.
Rolling equipment must not pass a blue signal on a track protected by the signal.
Other rolling equipment must not be placed on the same track so as to block or reduce the view of the blue signal.
a. However, rolling equipment may be placed on the same track when it is placed on designated engine servicing area tracks or car shop repair area tracks, or when a derail divides a track into separate working areas.
Rolling equipment must not enter a track when a blue signal is displayed at the entrance to the track.
Blue signals or remote control blue signals must be displayed for each craft or group of workmen who will work on, under, or between rolling equipment.
Protection Removed. Blue signals may be removed only by the craft or group who placed them. Remote control display may be discontinued when directed by the craft or group that requested the protection. When blue signal protection has been removed from one entrance of a double-ended track or from either end of rolling equipment on a main track, that track is no longer under blue signal protection.

B. How to Provide Protection

When workmen are on, under, or between rolling equipment and exposed to potential injury, protection must be provided as follows:

On a Main Track. A blue signal must be displayed at each end of the rolling equipment.

On Other than a Main Track. One of these three methods of protection or a combination of these methods must be provided:

Each manually operated switch that provides direct access must be lined against movement onto the track and secured by an effective locking device. A blue signal must be placed at or near each such switch. In addition, any facing point crossover switch must be lined against movement and secured by an effective locking device.



2. A derail capable of restricting access to the track where work will occur must be locked in derailing position with an effective locking device and:

a. Positioned at least 150 feet from the rolling equipment to be protected.
or
b. Positioned at least 50 feet from the end of rolling equipment on a designated engine servicing track or car shop repair track where speed is limited to not more than 5 MPH.
A blue signal must be displayed at each derail.


3. Where remote control switches provide direct access, the employee in charge of the workmen must tell the switch operator what work will be done. The switch operator must then:

a. Inform the employee in charge of the workmen that the switches have been lined against movement onto the track and devices controlling the switches have been secured.

b. Not remove the locking devices unless the employee in charge of the workmen says it is safe to do so.
c. Maintain for 15 days a written record of each notification that includes:
Name and craft of the employee in charge of the workmen requesting protection
Identification of track involved.
Date and time the employee in charge of workmen is notified that protection was provided
Date, time, name, and craft of the employee in charge of workmen who authorized removal of the protection

C. Blue Signal Readily Visible to Engineer
In addition to providing protection as required in 'On a Main Track" and "On Other than a Main Track," when workmen are on, under, or between an engine or rolling equipment coupled to an engine:


A blue signal must be attached to the controlling engine.
A blue signal must be visible to the engineer or employee controlling the engine.
The engine must not be moved.

D. Protection for Workmen Inspecting Markers
Blue signal protection must be provided for workmen when they are:


Replacing, repositioning, or repairing a marker, and the rear of the train is on any track.
or
Inspecting a marker by repositioning the activation switch or covering the photo-electric cell, and the rear of the train is on other than a main track.
E. Protection for Emergency Repair Work
If a blue signal is not available for employees performing emergency repairs on, under, or between an engine or rolling equipment coupled to an engine, the employee controlling the engine must be notified and appropriate measures taken to provide protection for the employees.

F. Movement in Engine Servicing Area An engine must not enter a designated engine servicing area until the blue signal protection is removed from the entrance. The engine must stop short of coupling to another engine.

An engine must not leave a designated engine servicing area unless the blue signal is removed from the engine and the track in the direction of movement.

Blue signal protection removed to let engines enter or leave the engine servicing area must be restored immediately after the engine enters or clears the area.

An engine protected by blue signals may be moved on a designated engine servicing area track when:


An authorized employee operates the engine under the direction of the employee in charge of workmen.
The blue signal has been removed from the controlling engine to be repositioned.
Workmen have been warned of the movement.
G. Movement in Car Shop Repair Area When rolling equipment on car shop repair tracks is protected by blue signals, a car mover may reposition the equipment if:

Workmen have been warned of the movement.
An authorized employee operates the car mover under the direction of the employee in charge of workmen.


Bluntly put, if my Trainmaster found a blue flag, or the blue tag our guys hang on the throttle, on any locomotive I was using...I would be out of a job for 90 days....
In our yard, where carmen lace up tracks, the switches at either end of that track are lined and locked to prevent anyone from entering, and a blue flag or blue flashing light at night, is placed at either end of the track.
The only person who may remove a blue flag is the person who placed it, or a member of the same craft, after getting permission from the person who placed it.
They have their own series of locks to lock switches; no one else has a key to those locks but the car department.

Blue flag and blue signal protection is one of those rules you never, ever even think about violating, it just isn’t an option.

Ed

[Hugh Jampton]

Maybe it's last turn was on a snowplow,, "durn thing gets stuck in the dad-gummed snow", and they forgot to take the blue flashing light off of it.

[oubliette]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....As Ed commented....Blue flag or light....Nothing moves, nothing....! At least that's the info I've always understood the railroad operating crew went by.......

Does the blue flag/light apply when in yards or maintenance depots and could it even apply anywhere. Who fits the blue flag/light and are they responsible for removing it? In the UK we use a "Not to be Moved" target that hangs on the loco and has the names of the people working on the loco. The loco is not allowed to be moved until all names have been contacted, the target removed. No one may remove the name tags from the train/loco apart from the person responsible for their own tag. If the loco/train is inside the shed additional protection is added in the form of derailers which are locked and the key can only be obtained after all workers have removed their tags and took their lock off the derailer board.

When you work on a loco you look at what road its on. You take your name tag from the office which has a lock attached. On the wall are compartments for each road on the shed. So if you were working on road 12 you would put your lock on road 12 cubicle. Only you can open this lock, so the derailer cannot be dropped until you have removed your lock as the key for the derailers are protected by all the workers locks keeping the cubicle closed and the key for the derailer safe. So if there are 6 people working on 12 road then there should be 6 locks. There should all be 6 name tags hanging on the vehicles on 12 road. Nothing can enter or leave shed until all locks have been personally removed by their owners. The shed Team Leader has to ensure all are clear for any movements and that it is safe to move anything. Out in the field doing repairs you may have to rely on just the target boards to protect you, I always make sure there is one on either end, last thing you want is another loco creeping up on you and jostling you whilst underneath. I would usually take extra protection in the form of a red stop board placed at either end. If you have a loco couple to a another loco or train then the target boards protect the whole train and not just the one vehicle you are working on.

Of course you have to allow for the idiot who went home from work and left his tag on the loco, his lock on the board, which means ringing around to ensure he is not under/inside the loco or just even gone for a break.

[ChuckCobleigh]

Aw, c'mon! Isn't it obvious that K-Mart is getting into the railroad business somehow?

What better name for a train than "The Blue Light Special" eh?

[Anonymous]

could be that same railroad's employees i see running around with the headlights off on the locomotives more often than should be..

[edblysard]

Was of the same mind as Carl..
Blue light/blue flag protection is often the only protection some crafts have
Our carmen lace hoses, and air up trains in a live yard, so the blue flag or light is the only device thats keeps them safe.
Any violation of the flag will, at the least, mean harm to them, possible death.

Some one should be looking for their lantern cap/lens...and someone should be on the carpet for moving a locomotive with it in place.

Ed

[CShaveRR]

Sorry, Sis; can't PRAN-der to you today (if you don't see those placards on other than a UCEX train, you can assume that it's some "local" notation).

That blue light was definitely where it shouldn't be, on a moving locomotive. I, for one, would like to see this brought back to haunt somebody--whether it's the guy who suddenly was without his protective equipment or the person who authorized the train to move that way.

[Modelcar]

....As Ed commented....Blue flag or light....Nothing moves, nothing....! At least that's the info I've always understood the railroad operating crew went by.......

[Anonymous]

Gosh, Mookie, you ask pretty hard questions, for a cat. I prefer to think that the blue light was purely decorative. You think railroads can't indulge in a little flair sometimes? And the placards - well, I have to run or I would explain them.

Larry

[edblysard]

Well,
If it looked like a switchmans lantern standing on end, with the blue cone on top...someone is missing their "blue flag"...and someone moved a locomotive they should never have touched...much less moved.

The blue flag rule is the one rule you never, ever break...it truly can mean life or death for engine service people, and car men...
Ed

[Mookie]

Ed: Driver and I both commented it wasn't where it should be. I am almost positive it wasn't attached to the unit - it just looked like it didn't belong there. But the engine was moving and hard to see just exactly what it was.

Driver said looked like someone will wonder where their blue "lantern" went. But thought I would check - you never know when some new device will show up.

Gabe - you will always have a job on the forum. So the pay is lousy!

For the rest of you - there is still another unanswered question.

Moo

[adrianspeeder]

"I know I left that light around here somewhere." "How the heck would it get out of here?"

hahahahaha

Adrianspeeder

[gabe]

SD-70MAC, you don't have to put on the blue light, pull coal drags for money, sell your engine life to the night, BNSF doesn’t care if it is wrong or if it is right.


OK, I know that was really bad, and sorry for the Sting/Another 48 Hours reference and interfering with cherished Mook posts, but endless job interviews, future uncertainty, and sleepless nights have me acting a little goofy at work this morning.

Gabe

[edblysard]

Was it a light fixture mounted to or part of the locomotive, or did it look like a portable light on or in a small stand?

If it was the latter, I bet a car man, engine service person or roundhouse worker is wondering where the heck their blue light went?

And if it is a blue flag/light protection device, some one is in for a pretty good butt chewing.

Ed

[Mookie]

Watched a BNSF coal train go by.

Coal cars were UCEX for the most part. Some of the cars had a small placard on the side, above the normal routing card. This card had

A PRAN 2-02
DR PRAN 2-02
DO PRAN 2-02
T

or just a notation PRAN 11-02

Means what?

And - another coal train - DPU unit # 8818 - had a blue light on the nose, just above the door opening! This is an SD70MAC. Have never seen what looked to be a blue light - and on the nose yet! Was it an oops and someone left something there? It wasn't huge, but was definitely blue and was the same shape, only not as curvy, as the old insulators on telephone poles, but larger. Looked really strange!

Any thoughts?

Mook