Steering Wheel in a Locomotive????

[Overmod]

uz, you used the wrong URL for the picture; try

http://rulez.pl/~sputnik/kolej/elektrowozy/pulpitep03.jpg

Not unusual to find a large wheel for "throttle" control on European electric designs; I remember seeing one on a rack railcar in the late '70s, and I suspect even a cursory search will turn up all kinds of examples.

IIRC there was a discussion in the Encyclopedia of World Railway Locomotives about precisely why the electric gear benefited from a large-diameter wheel. Winging it from memory -- you have multiple tap-changing speed control (similar, I think, to what was on GG1s) but the tap switching is done mechanically. You've got a fair number of switched positions, with a fair amount of angular separation for isolation and positive location, but you also need a fair amount of input power to get each 'notch' engaged. So a wheel makes sense to get the desired angle (note that with screw advance you can easily use more than a full revolution of the input shaft for tap changing). You will put the wheel where it can be easily and conveniently grasped and turned.

Now, if I were a locomotive manufacturer and wanted to buy a large wheel with convenient hand grips fairly cheap, where do you suppose I would look? Unsurprisingly, to the vehicle manufacturers...

I have to admit that I would also use a horn ring (or rim-blow) on this wheel if I had electrical actuation of the locomotive horn (cf. GEs with that *** computer crossing alert "feature")

Interesting aside on these designs: I would have thought that it would be easy to tell 'at a glance' what notch of the controller was selected by seeing where the wheel was turned to (think of a very large radio mixdown-board pot). In practice it doesn't work out that way, even for the designs that have a 'pointer' attached to the wheel hub. You still want a separate indicator or gauge that tells you what 'notch' you're in (and this indicator, if correctly designed, would also show you the state of your traction-motor connections if not integrated with the tap-changing feature) even if this indicator is driven mechanically from the tap-selector shaft.

Surprised that I haven't heard "Polish" comments about the fact that many of these wheels have a 'necker's knob' on the rim, like so many '50s cruiser customs. Gives you the equivalent of a very long controller lever, with the additional ease of a 360-degree rim arc for convenient grabbing if the knob is at an inconvenient angle depending on where you happen to be in the cab...


Old Timer, I believe what you're describing is a form of screw reverser -- other railroads, for example NYC, used these quite effectively. This is a different thing from the kind of screw reverser found on some British locomotives (which require the screw to move the valve gear mechanically... and through their (perhaps typically English) design contribute to forms of catastrophic accident a la Blue Peter. IIRC there is a pretty good description of the mechanical operation of this kind of thing (proportional valves for the power reverse, and mechanical 'backup' for synchronization of wheel and valve gear) on one of the Web sites that discusses Beyer-Garratts... but I don't have time to look it up right now; I invite somebody with pix of actual wheel reversers, e.g. Franklin Precision, to post links.

I know of no screw reverser in North American practice that had a diameter as large as the kind of steering wheel found in these European locomotives, and I get the distinct impression that the large diameter could not be usefully accommodated anywhere in the appropriate backhead and cab space on steam locomotives that would require... or benefit from... the large effective mechanical advantage of the big wheel.

As I have noted elsewhere before, there are advantages to having a power-reverse control for steam locomotives that uses a wheel for fine adjustment, but has a clutched lever for rapid change (as is required, for example, when a locomotive slips) with the ability to return the lever quickly and positively either to its previous position or to a new one from which precise adjustment via the wheel then proceeds. You can easily have multiple wheels with different ratios for coarse and fine adjustment (anybody remember radio dials like this from the Golden Age?) As I recall, it's remarkably easy to use a Valve Pilot effectively if you have a screw reverse control: crank up or down until the needles match... easier than flogging fore and aft with big levers, or twiddling little ones... ;-}

[Anonymous]

It seems that I recall a steering-wheel-like device that sat in front of the engineer on CP Hudson 2839 that was used in Southern Railway excursion service some years back, that was actually the reverse lever.

Can anyone confirm or deny?

Old Timer

[Anonymous]

The comment about the Euopean locos is right. The TGV i know for sure uses the wheel for speed control, and NOT for steering, or sleeping.

[Anonymous]

This is an _electric_ loco. It looks like this:

http://rulez.pl/~sputnik/kolej/elektrowozy/et40.jpg

[SP9811]

If im not mistaken, the wheel is there version of our "Johnson Bar". The bar that controls the timing of the valves, and is the reverse lever.

[Anonymous]

CSXrules4eva:

then maybe you should add to that photo in your signature:

HEY MTV - PIMP MY RIDE !

[:-,]

[CSXrules4eva]

You know what. This thread brought some attention to my eyes! I've never ever in my 18 years have ever head of a steering wheel in a locomotive. But, upon reading some of the responces learned that it was a throttle. That makes some sense lol.
One of my guesses as to why they would want to put a steering wheel on the locomotive is to make the engineer look cool. He could have one had on the wheel w/ the seat all the way back (if they reclined) and look cool. really lol. While they're at it they can put a sound system on the locomotive too. hehehe

[starwardude]

This kinda reminds me of the movie "Speed". Last 20 minutes- in the subway sequence- in the subway cab- Instead of a deadman switch/ throttle, there was a lever throttle, and an "emergency button" about 6" from the window. I think the guy shot the engineer because he thought it was inaccurate. It probably was.

[chad thomas]

Homeland stupidity at its finest.

[jockellis]

G'day, Y'all,
On my Yahoo steam llst someone wrote in about the Homeland Security folks going to the nuclear site in Tennessee to assess the safety of the site. They called in all he railroad folks and asked if any plans had been made to keep terrorists from highjacking cars and steering them into the buildings. The railroaders pointed out that the cars could only follow the tracks. "Then why do they have steering wheels on the end?" a homeland security expert asked.
The railroaders laughed themselves silly.
Jock Ellis
Cumming, GA US of A

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

SF and I think SP (and undoubtedly others) were users of the "wagon wheel" radio antenna, located on top of the engine/caboose.

I'm guessing that's for steering the train on reverse movements[:D]

[tree68]

SF and I think SP (and undoubtedly others) were users of the "wagon wheel" radio antenna, located on top of the engine/caboose.

[METRO]

My grandfather told me a story about when he was working at the Alco plant that was building the S-series switchers:

So this paper-pusher guy from head office is showing around a new client or friend or something at the factory and they get to the brand new switchers that are getting ready for delivery. They get up and are looking around the cab and the head office guy remarks, "...yes it's a bit more expensive but it will pay for itself in the long run. Just think about it, not having to worry about watering, and it's ready whenever you need it! I'll have my boys look at the design again so the steering wheel isn't in the back like that..." The whole factory laughed their tails off.

~METRO

[Anonymous]

EMD's FT A-units had the hand brake wheel on the left side of the cab facing the fireman's seat.

Folks being shown the cab were told that the engineer handled the throttle and the brake but the fireman had to steer the engine around the curves . . .

Old Timer

[cherokee woman]

Hugh, that a very good picture, too!! Got any more like that?

[Hugh Jampton]

Over here I've seen caboose like things with a great ships wheel on them...

Here's a pic of one:
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/wagons/1101-1200/db993806.jpg

[espeefoamer]

Steering wheels on locomotives. What will they think of next[:o)]!

[Anonymous]

ET40 is the latest buzz of railroad technology of the 50ties. AC locos of that time were tap changing transformer ones with comutator ac motors.

DC locos of that time all used serial-parallel grouping to get desired speed/tractive effort.

For example - you may start with 4 motors in parallel and end with all 4 in serial - with as many as 31 positions inbetween (depending on resistances added to the circuit to control speed).

[martin.knoepfel]

The Polish Railways run on 3kV DC, if this engine is not diesel. Do they need serial-parallel-switching like AC-engines would need?

[Anonymous]

I really don't find this thread particularily funny...

[tatans]

A steering wheel in a locomotive? Poland? I'm not touching this with a ten foot pole !

[Rustyrex]

Well I guess the Polish are really ahead of us in this respect [:D] Imagine the possibilites here:
Instead of having the hassle of the Wye or Turntable you just turn the Ol' girl around[:o)]

When making a cut 35 cars deep you just turn around, go back, and get that "Block of Galesburgs outta the way"[:p]

Throw the hassle of stopping and lining a switch that's against you out the window, just go around it!!![:0]

Instead of a line 9 in a track warrent reading "Do Not foul Limits ahead of _______________ can now be changed to read "Steer Clear of ___________________(insert identifier here [:p])

Getting tired of the nagging of the Fort Worth Dispatcher and his endless red blocks????, Just turn to the right when you get to the crossing and take that 4 mile shortcut down US 57 before he even realizes "you're off the board" [:p]

The possbilities are endless here folks!! I'm surprised the unions haven't jumped all over this one yet[^]

[dehusman]

Anybody remember the James Coburn "Our Man Flint" movies. In one of them he ends up on a train with a steering wheel. I thought is was hokey, but now I guess it was just a bad imitation of a European locomotive.

Dave H.

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...If it's cold and snowy out your conductor doesn't need to go out in the mess and through the switch to make that siding....just steer it right in there......

Doesn't 'somebody' have to 'throw' it first ??
Or is it "remote controlled" ???

[Modelcar]

...If it's cold and snowy out your conductor doesn't need to go out in the mess and through the switch to make that siding....just steer it right in there......

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

CSX has it...thats the throttle...
See the train brake and independent brake on the right, and the reverser on the left, just under the wheel....turn the wheel one way to speed up, the other to slow down.

Besides...it a polish locomotive...why not use a steering wheel for a throttle?[:D]

Ed

FOFLMAO...

Exactly Ed.

Actually, it IS a steering wheel. When you get to the bad track you just drive around it...

LOL...

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

Dangerous feature. Way too comfortable for at nap time.

All polish locomotives are equipped with "dead man's switch". Fail to press it, within 10 seconds of its activation and it sends the train into emergency. Besides - in civilised countries engineers are consdiered humans, not machines like in the US. This includes actual _rest_.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rustyrex

I was recently viewing Railpictures.net and came across a PKP Polish State Railways ET40-04. http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=76097

That is not a steering wheel. I think that in american terminology it would be called "shunting circuits" - eg - system to switch traction motors between several serial/parallel configurations and in the same time controlling resistances that control speed of the loco.

Basicly it can be considered throttle, but also - it is vital for starting heavy trains...

QUOTE: originally posted by edblysardBesides...it a polish locomotive...why not use a steering wheel for a throttle?

Cough, cough. Nasty cold, nasty I tell ya...

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

Maybe that woman who wanted the tram to swerve arund her parked car has seen this pic.

Hope those grade crossing safety fanatics don't see that - they'll want steering wheels installed on ALL locomotives....