Iron Ore and the Railroad

[beaulieu]

DMIR still uses ore jennys from the Messabe mines to the ore doks in two rivers and Superior. the jennys are runnung under FRA waiver and cannot be freely interchanged. The all rail movements coming off the Messabe move in coal hoppers, a full load of ore or taconite barely covers the floor of the car. The LS&I use ore jennys from the Empire and Tilden mines to their ore dock in Marquette Mi. and the WC /CN use coal hoppers for offline movements from the Empire mines. CN still has a sizable fleet of ex CNW ore jennys to move ore from the Empire mine to the ore dock in Escanaba Mi. but these cars again are captive to that servicecause of verticle draft keys and the extreme age of the cars.
Randy

Now that the CN has taken over both the WC, B&LE, and DMIR what about a new fleet of ore jennies that have no restrictions?

What is taking CN so long in ordering a new fleet of ore jennies from Freight Car America?

Andrew

CN is trying to get the mining companies to buy them, and the mining companies are resisting.

[Andrew Falconer]

DMIR still uses ore jennys from the Messabe mines to the ore doks in two rivers and Superior. the jennys are runnung under FRA waiver and cannot be freely interchanged. The all rail movements coming off the Messabe move in coal hoppers, a full load of ore or taconite barely covers the floor of the car. The LS&I use ore jennys from the Empire and Tilden mines to their ore dock in Marquette Mi. and the WC /CN use coal hoppers for offline movements from the Empire mines. CN still has a sizable fleet of ex CNW ore jennys to move ore from the Empire mine to the ore dock in Escanaba Mi. but these cars again are captive to that servicecause of verticle draft keys and the extreme age of the cars.
Randy

Now that the CN has taken over both the WC, B&LE, and DMIR what about a new fleet of ore jennies that have no restrictions?

What is taking CN so long in ordering a new fleet of ore jennies from Freight Car America?

Andrew

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Aside from the various restrictions placed on them based on their extreme age, most loaded ore jennies are restricted from many lines based on weight.  They are very short and when loaded weigh as much as a much larger and longer coal hopper, so they can put a pretty good strain on a bridge.  The Special Instructions on many roads have all kinds of restrictions for jennies, which may explain why interline moves even with cars not on FRA waivers are relatively rare.

[beaulieu]

How old are the ore jennies still in use today ?

All of them that belong to CN's subsidiaries are over 50 years old, the former C&NW cars are about 60 years old. The BN bought new cars in the '80s but they are not "Jennies" as the are not designed to dump in a traditional Ore Dock. The LS&I's cars are in between the DM&IR and the C&NW cars in age. NorthShore Mining uses rotary dump gondolas. Cleveland Cliff's owns some former LTV (Erie Mining) hoppers that aren't Jennies but they are not being used right now.

[beaulieu]

"1. Blasting
Taconite is a very hard rock. Using explosives, the taconite is blasted into small pieces."

TACONITE is NOT mined. Taconite is a result of a process to concentrate the % ore in the product going to the mill. What is mined is low grade ore. Without the taconite process, many of the mines as they ran out of high grade ore would be shut down. The pelletizing process gave them new life.

Yes it is TACONITE that is being mined, This the name given to the mineralized form of the Magnetite being mined. Obviously it is a low-grade Iron Ore. The mines in Labrador and Eastern Quebec are also mining low-grade Iron Ore, but in their case it is Specular Hematite, which calls for a completely different method of benefication since the Hematite is non-magnetic.

"5. Pellets
The concentrate (the wet taconite powder) is rolled with clay inside large rotating cylinders. The cylinders cause the powder to roll into marble-sized balls. (This is like rolling wet, sticky snow into balls to make a snowman). The balls are then dried and heated until they are white hot. The balls become hard as they cool. The finished product is taconite pellets. "

One of my old ME profs was one of the design engineers on this process and equipment.


"5. Pellets
The concentrate (the wet taconite powder) is rolled with clay inside large rotating cylinders. The cylinders cause the powder to roll into marble-sized balls. (This is like rolling wet, sticky snow into balls to make a snowman). The balls are then dried and heated until they are white hot. The balls become hard as they cool. The finished product is taconite pellets. "

During this precess, flux (usually limestone) is added. This give a greater control of the % flux to the % iron, which makes for better processing at the mill.

Much of the production from Minntac and Minorca is Fluxed Pellets, but Keewatin, United, Hibbing, and NorthShore only produce unfluxed "Acid" pellets.

"6. Steel
The taconite pellets are loaded into ore ships. These ships sail on the Great Lakes to Gary, Indiana, Cleveland, Ohio and other steel-making towns. The taconite pellets are brought to the steel mills to be melted down into steel. "

No so fast. Rail did haul a LOT of ore/taconite to the mills. The Geneva trains and when the lakes were froze over in winter, it all went by rail.

The Pellets for US Steel at Granite City, IL and Fairfield, AL are All-Rail movements year-round. Various other mills receive trains when the lakes are frozen over. In the past year US Steel has sent a couple of ship loads of pellets to Serbia, and Mittal sent 6 loads to Algeria. Then a couple of years ago there were the trainloads to Prince Rupert on the CN for China.

[TH&B]

How old are the ore jennies still in use today ?

[Andrew Falconer]

How much ore has traveled partially by rail compared to the all rail moves of ore?

Is there a graph somewhere showing the amount of ore hauled by rail on a monthly basis over the past 50 years?

 Is very expensive for railroads to operate a west to east all rail movement of ore?

Andrew

[kevarc]

"1. Blasting
Taconite is a very hard rock. Using explosives, the taconite is blasted into small pieces."

TACONITE is NOT mined. Taconite is a result of a process to concentrate the % ore in the product going to the mill. What is mined is low grade ore. Without the taconite process, many of the mines as they ran out of high grade ore would be shut down. The pelletizing process gave them new life.

"5. Pellets
The concentrate (the wet taconite powder) is rolled with clay inside large rotating cylinders. The cylinders cause the powder to roll into marble-sized balls. (This is like rolling wet, sticky snow into balls to make a snowman). The balls are then dried and heated until they are white hot. The balls become hard as they cool. The finished product is taconite pellets. "

One of my old ME profs was one of the design engineers on this process and equipment.

"5. Pellets
The concentrate (the wet taconite powder) is rolled with clay inside large rotating cylinders. The cylinders cause the powder to roll into marble-sized balls. (This is like rolling wet, sticky snow into balls to make a snowman). The balls are then dried and heated until they are white hot. The balls become hard as they cool. The finished product is taconite pellets. "

During this precess, flux (usually limestone) is added. This give a greater control of the % flux to the % iron, which makes for better processing at the mill.

"6. Steel
The taconite pellets are loaded into ore ships. These ships sail on the Great Lakes to Gary, Indiana, Cleveland, Ohio and other steel-making towns. The taconite pellets are brought to the steel mills to be melted down into steel. "

No so fast. Rail did haul a LOT of ore/taconite to the mills. The Geneva trains and when the lakes were froze over in winter, it all went by rail.

[mvlandsw]

If the pellets are heated to white hot in the drying process what keeps them from melting right there?

[DPD1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

DMIR still uses ore jennys from the Messabe mines to the ore doks in two rivers and Superior. the jennys are runnung under FRA waiver and cannot be freely interchanged. The all rail movements coming off the Messabe move in coal hoppers, a full load of ore or taconite barely covers the floor of the car. The LS&I use ore jennys from the Empire and Tilden mines to their ore dock in Marquette Mi. and the WC /CN use coal hoppers for offline movements from the Empire mines. CN still has a sizable fleet of ex CNW ore jennys to move ore from the Empire mine to the ore dock in Escanaba Mi. but these cars again are captive to that servicecause of verticle draft keys and the extreme age of the cars.
Randy

I would love to see more all rail moves outside the mine areas, with trains using the jennies. Apparently most crews don't particularly enjoy the problems that come with running those cars, but I've always liked them. I was a kid when the tac trains using the jennies on the EJ&E were just coming to an end. It would be great to see those back again. The rib side coal car version is better then nothing, but just isn't quite the same. I had a little hope when there was talk of DMIR and a couple other operators having new jenny type cars built, but I guess that's not going to happen.

Dave

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[chad thomas]

Coborn35,

Thanks for that great rundown on ore production.

I don't know if this helps,but:

I heard the Erie mining operation has been temporarily revived. They recalled the F unit that was donated to a museum, and fired up there other Fs. The operation is suppose to last till Aug-Sept. They are basicaly cleaning up the last bits of ore that were spilled over the years.

[Junctionfan]

Thankyou very much gentlemen.

[coborn35]

Ok,
First off, most of the iron ore in the United States is moved in the form of taconite pellets. Also, the Missabe moved about 3/4's of the usa's iron ore and taconite.
Taconite is a low-grade iron ore. When the high-grade natural iron ore was plenitful, taconite was considered a waste rock and not used. But as the supply of high-grade natural ore decreased, industry began to view taconite as a resource. Dr. E.W. Davis of the University of Minnesota, along with other scientists, conducted years of laboratory tests and experiments to find a way to take the iron ore out of the taconite rock. After many years of hard work, a process was developed to create taconite pellets. Taconite saved Minnesota's iron ore mining industry.


(maps courtesy on MN DNR)

Let's look at how the taconite pellet process works.


1. Blasting
Taconite is a very hard rock. Using explosives, the taconite is blasted into small pieces.



2. Transportation
The taconite pieces are scooped up by electric shovels. Each shovel can hold up to 85 tons of rock! The shovels place the taconite into giant dump trucks. These trucks are as big as a house and hold up to 240 tons of taconite. The trucks take the taconite directly to the processing plant, if it is nearby, or to train cars if it is far away.



3. Crushing
At the processing plant, the taconite is crushed into very small pieces by rock crushing machines. The crushers keep crushing the rock until it is the size of a marble. The rock is mixed with water and ground in rotating mills until it is as fine as powder.



4. Separation
The iron ore is separated from the taconite using magnetism. The remaining rock is waste material and is dumped into tailings basins. The taconite powder with the iron in it is called concentrate.



5. Pellets
The concentrate (the wet taconite powder) is rolled with clay inside large rotating cylinders. The cylinders cause the powder to roll into marble-sized balls. (This is like rolling wet, sticky snow into balls to make a snowman). The balls are then dried and heated until they are white hot. The balls become hard as they cool. The finished product is taconite pellets.



6. Steel
The taconite pellets are loaded into ore ships. These ships sail on the Great Lakes to Gary, Indiana, Cleveland, Ohio and other steel-making towns. The taconite pellets are brought to the steel mills to be melted down into steel.

The Missabe's equipment roster has largely concerned itself with ore cars of one sort or another. Both the D&IR and DM&N created rosters of similar equipment, although, at first, the specifications from each reflected the different personalities of each railroads' officials. As the two companies came together under common ownership, common standards emerged.

The ore car began as a relatively short 24-foot standard, owing to the weight of iron ore and the wood construction of cars in the 1880's. Both railroads rostered wooden ore cars, some built by local shops, some by Pullman Standard. By the 1910's, demand for volume of ore was such that the first steel cars were received. These cars were of 50-ton capacity. Variations existed, as each successive order of cars seemed to try out a new innovation, including rib sides, different doors, long end platforms and panel sides.

In the 1930's, capacity was increased to a 70-ton car, and from then on out, the 70-ton car followed consistent design, even though orders alternated between ACF and Pullman Standard through 1957 when the last order of ore cars was placed. Beginning in the 1960's, side extensions were added to some ore cars to increase volume capacity on cars hauling the less dense taconite pellet.

Having almost reached the end of their lives, the ore car fleet is old, dwindling in numbers due to FRA mandated retirements, and failure from years of hard service. The Missabe has acquired side-dump cars from Minntac, and is in the process of refurbishing them for flux stone service. It is also looking at the possibility of acquiring new ore cars some time in the future.
(courtesy Missabe RR historical society)

Some of the major mines and plants are the Thunderbird Mine,Hull-Rust Mahoning Mining(not as productive anymore), and the main plants are Minntac,Forbes and Fairlane plants.

Hope this helps.

[Randy Stahl]

DMIR still uses ore jennys from the Messabe mines to the ore doks in two rivers and Superior. the jennys are runnung under FRA waiver and cannot be freely interchanged. The all rail movements coming off the Messabe move in coal hoppers, a full load of ore or taconite barely covers the floor of the car. The LS&I use ore jennys from the Empire and Tilden mines to their ore dock in Marquette Mi. and the WC /CN use coal hoppers for offline movements from the Empire mines. CN still has a sizable fleet of ex CNW ore jennys to move ore from the Empire mine to the ore dock in Escanaba Mi. but these cars again are captive to that servicecause of verticle draft keys and the extreme age of the cars.
Randy

[Junctionfan]

Good Morning all,

(At least those in my time zone[:D])

Does anyone know which Iron Ore mines particularly in the U.S, moves Iron Ore and where does it go? What kind of cars do they use? Do they still use ore-jennys or something else now line ortners?