Question RE: Communications

[mloik]

This past Saturday while railfanning at the Santa Clara (CA) Depot, my son and I watched as a train that had been doubled up in the yard was put together, then left for Roseville.

It was amazing to watch how slowly the engineer was able to back the front half of the train down on the second half. Obviously communications between the engineer and the conductor on the ground were by radio. And, in the past hand signals and lanterns were used for such communications.

So, here's my question: in the pre-radio days, how did the engineer and conductor communicate when they couldn't see each other? I ask because this particular location had the front of the train go around a curve, which blocked vision due to buildings and trees. Thus, in the way back, the engineer wouldn't have been able to see the hand signals or lantern of the conductor (or switchman or brakeman) on the ground.

Thanks in advance for any information.

[Hugh Jampton]

When working using hand signals the movement must come to a halt if the engineer looses sight of the person directing the movement.

[ValleyX]

In the old days, there were more crew members and they would spread out and pass signals. Sometimes, if there was a fireman, he would also get off to pass signals.

Back when freight car lengths were more uniform, a good engineer and a good brakeman could set out and pick up without ever seeing each other. I know of locations where this was done on a regular basis, the brakeman would drop off and the engineer would pull down so many carlengths to a stop, give the brakeman time to make a cut, then pull up to the setout point, give the brakeman time to line the switch for the setout, then shove back, cut the setout away from the engine, and if there was a pick-up, make the moves in reverse. I'm talking of the days before there were high cube boxcars and autoracks and all the various carlengths that we have today and there were also lineside poles to help an engineer determine how far he had gone. Also, those old boys had all sorts of landmarks from doing it for years.

Before anyone asks, I don't know that they didn't ever have mishaps, I don't know what they did if they got a rookie brakeman, although I suspect that the flagman was sent to the head end to help with the work and, in some places, there were two trainmen assigned to the head end already. As for rookie engineers, keep in mind that even a rookie engineer had probably had plenty of experience on the same route.

[mvlandsw]

On my first trip as a road brakeman we tried a move like that. The cars were not in the expected order and the engineer kept making the moves as planned with no way to know. What confusion !!

[dehusman]

The brakemen would stretch out along the train ( or on top of the train in the 1800's and early 1900's) and pass signals like a relay.

Also yards sometimes had an elevated platform that the conductor could stand on to pass signals (the one at Durham Yard in Houston was called the "Goat stand".)

Dave H.

[Randy Stahl]

Go high kid ! Ride the tops and pass signals to another crewman.

[edblysard]

So theres your answer...
And remember, a lot of the times, crews worked together on a regular basis...unlike today where most guys are in pool service...so you had the same hogger, same conductor, brakie and fireman, and you got used to each others rhythm and candence...the guy at the rear would give a hand signal early, so by the time it gets passed to the engineer, the timing is right on...

Ed

[DPD1]

Some railroads had some innovative steps somewhere between no radio at all, and radio... The EJ&E for example, tried PA's on some locos. The crew in the engine could then at least call out some info over the PA to the guys on the ground. And to this day, some hump operations use a PA to call out info on which pins to pull to the pin puller on the hump.

Dave

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