CN Orders 50 ES44DC's from GE and 25 SD70M-2's from Electro-Motive Diesel

[Anonymous]

"CN Rail Orders 75 New Locomotives, May Buy More


Canada - Reuters

VANCOUVER, British Columbia (Reuters) - Canadian National Railway Co. said on Wednesday it will buy 75 new high-power locomotives from two companies, General Electric Co. and Electro-Motive Diesel.

CN Rail, which did not disclose the cost of the locomotives, said the order includes options to purchase an additional 75 engines from the builders, and will allow it to replace 100 older and less powerful locomotives now in service.

Canadian National's engine roster now includes more than 1,300 units used in mainline service and more than 700 switchers.

The railway said the initial order includes 50 ES44DC locomotives from GE and 25 SD70M-2 units from Electro-Motive Diesel, which was recently purchased by Greenbriar Equity Group LLC and Berkshire Partners LLC.

If CN exercises its option to purchase more units, it would take 50 SD70M-2s and 25 ES44DC engines.

The first locomotives will be delivered in the fourth quarter of 2005, and the deliveries are expected to be completed by mid 2006. The option to buy additional units continues through the end of 2008. "

(C) Reuters International 2005

[UPTRAIN]

Sweet...I hope UP's are rolling through here before then.

[Junctionfan]

Finally... I was wondering how much longer they were going to try to run those 150 plus car trains with a couple of SD40s or 3 GP40-2W at notch 8. Really loud and very smokey....

[CP5415]

I take it CN is power short?

I saw CN stack train in Pickering ON headed towards MacMillan Yard with a CN unit up front & a CP SD40-2 trailing it.
It wasn't a CP train as it had CN containers mixed through the train.

Gordon

[Anonymous]

Now that's pretty scarry.

[Junctionfan]

CN has been short power for quite some time. I don't know why CN keeps trying to buy up whatever railroad they can get their hands on when they don't have the motive power to maintain operation of thease large combined trains.

CN has started using GMD1s and their really old GP38s in manifests. They use everybody's power including the shortlines which ends up that CN never gets their own locomotives for very long because they have to give back hours to those they "lease" from.

I have seen a CN train with 2 CP SD40-2 and a SOO SD60M one time because no CN power was available and I guess CSX and NS didn't have any to spare. I haven't seen Amtrak power on the trains yet but who knows.....

[Sterling1]

I didn't know CN was power short. Jeez do they more older units than new ones or what?

[andrewjonathon]

What some consider a power shortage, CN may consider an efficient use of resources.

[THayman]

Anybody got any pictures of these ES44DC's? I've never heard of them before, to be honest.

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrewjonathon

What some consider a power shortage, CN may consider an efficient use of resources.

Their old junk units are not fuel efficient, they require too much maintainance cause they're old and so I would not say that they are an efficient use of resources. They stopped using some of that power for a reason and just stuck them in MacMillan Yard. They also have some Alcos there including what looks to be a GT RS18.

I suspect that's why CN decided to give up on preserving the garbage and bring in cheaper in the long-run locomotives. You wouldn't believe the amount of times Diesel Doctor was called when I listened to them on the scanner. The SD50F are a problem, some of the old ex MP/ UP units too, the GP40-2W were good at one point but now they rust, the GMD1s and alot of the other locomotives they stored are no good for the tonnage of mainline use now and they don't switch a great deal cars that aren't heavy.

With what CN is hauling now and manifest trains that can be as long as 190 cars!?, the old units aren't up to the task for much longer. I can remember when CN trains didn't usually go beyond 120 cars and they used 4-5 SD40s or 40-2W and often they had at least 1 leased or a Conrail SD40 as well. Now that CN has combined so many trains and high capacity railcars are a norm, the brutish SD70s and the GEs are required to do that kind of monster hauling.

The reason why CP can get away with their usage of GP9s and SD40-2s is that they use quite a few in a lash up. I have seen 3 of them pulling an autorack train and 7 pulling a manifest. They usually have 3 pulling the Expressway and they always use 2 GP9s to switch. They use the AC4400s and the SD90s in interesting configuations too but not as many.

[UPTRAIN]

I get tired of thier cowl body units here...all their old stuff runs on the UP!

[Anonymous]

To THayman,
Click on the link for some pictures of the BNSF ES44DC. This will give you some idea.

http://www.sd45.com/7695.html

Best regards,
Frank Swafford

[coborn35]

So, once the new units come in, will they have sufficent power? If so, what will they do with the CEFX units? Since the Canadian National is diverting alot of their Chicago traffic to Superior,WI, Im betting that until the new units come in, they will take D.M.I.R. power across the bay from Duluth,MN to Superior,WI for use as switching units, h.p. payback, transfers, and various other tasks. Bet they wi***hey hadnt scrapped the perfectly good D.M.I.R. SD38-2's now, they could have been used for 10 or more years than they were.

[Junctionfan]

I'm thinking that some of the Mopac units and the Alstom lease units will go. Not to sure about the SD40s 5200s and SD40-2W 5300s. I would say that they will likely continue to use the SD50F and 60F.

They may want to consider replacing some of their switching fleet with those newer EMD switchers or maybe some Green Goats.

Now as far as the IC and WC units go, I question the state of WC SD45s and some of the IC GPs.

[andrewjonathon]

Does anyone know the average age of the CN locomotive fleet and how it compares to the other Class 1lines?

[Sterling1]

Is it cheaper for CN to buy Green Goats and Kids or stick with their junk switchers?

[Junctionfan]

I would say at least 20 years for most of their equipment including that of its aquirements which I think would be much older.

[THayman]

Looking at those BNSF ES44DCs, they appear to be almost the same asthe Dash 9 loco's externally, though I see some differences. What are the key internal differences?

[Anonymous]

Up here in Fond Du Lac,Wi,the CN has been running quite an assortment of motive power from various railroads. So far the locomotives have been CN repaints of IC,GTW,and WC heritage along with Union Pacific,BNSF,CSX,FURX,NRLX ,along with a few WC and IC units,and the rare BLE as well..Yes the CN IS power short.What does not make any sense is the CN has been moving locomotives on double stack and regular freights in multi unit lash-ups of 5-7 units per train,heading North. There has not been alot of WC units seen in the FDL area.You would be lucky to see at least 7 in a day of the SD45's.There used to be a set of WC SW1500 switchers on the South part of the yard,but they are long gone,replaced with a WC GP40,and a WC SD45,along with a CN SW1500,and a CN GP40. Sitting in the RIP track is a IC unit,a WC SD45 and a CN cowl unit.Still sitting in the dead line are the ex Algoma Central / WC GP9's:1703,1704,1705,1706,1707,and 1708,along with the Ex FRVR / CNW GP 9 in CNW colors. There was a remote controlled train,but that has been scrapped,except for the ex Soo Line caboose that is still intact.

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by THayman

Looking at those BNSF ES44DCs, they appear to be almost the same asthe Dash 9 loco's externally, though I see some differences. What are the key internal differences?

Basically, the ES44DC is the Dash 9, but modified to meet the new emissions regulations. They run with 4 fewer cylinders! Other than that, it's still just a basic C44-9W, but with a new model designation.

-Mark
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[fuzzybroken]

Hey, where are the IC SD70s these days? Still running on IC rails, or has CN got 'em running all across the system? Has CN painted any of 'em in company colors yet?

Thanks,
-Mark
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fuzzybroken

Hey, where are the IC SD70s these days? Still running on IC rails, or has CN got 'em running all across the system? Has CN painted any of 'em in company colors yet?

Thanks,
-Mark
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

So far ALL the IC SD70's are still in their original black paint scheme.There have been a few up here that I saw this week,along with a few GP units.The only one that I saw painted in CN colors was a SD40-2,that had the IC marks on the cab,below the windows.

[Junctionfan]

They rarely repaint anything and if they do, it's usually boxcars or something like that. They still have DWP and GT units. Even railcars, they still have DT&I autoboxes with original reporting marks.

I wouldn't be too concerned with CN repainting locomotives just now. They might if the paint is falling off or something like that but even then, you wouldn't believe some of the units that go by. Talk about rust heaps.

[GP40-2]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fuzzybroken

QUOTE: Originally posted by THayman

Looking at those BNSF ES44DCs, they appear to be almost the same asthe Dash 9 loco's externally, though I see some differences. What are the key internal differences?

Basically, the ES44DC is the Dash 9, but modified to meet the new emissions regulations. They run with 4 fewer cylinders! Other than that, it's still just a basic C44-9W, but with a new model designation.

-Mark
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

The ES44's are similar to a Dash 9, but I would not go as far as saying it "is" a Dash 9.

The ES44's have an completely different diesel engine, and the major electrical systems were optimized for improved durability and efficiency.

[Anonymous]

Here some info on the Evolution Series Locomotives from GE:

ES40DC
The ES40DC (Evolution Series 4000 hp DC transmission) replaces the former Dash 9-40CW model in GE's range and, like the former model, has been delivered only to Norfolk Southern. NS appears to prefer a slightly lower-rated locomotive than other railroads.


ES44DC
The ES44DC (Evolution Series 4400 hp DC transmission) replaces the former Dash 9-44CW model in GE's range. A large order for these locomotives has been placed by the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway, which began to be delivered in early 2005.


ES44AC
The ES44AC (Evolution Series 4400 hp AC transmission) replaces the former AC4400CW model in GE's range. These locomotives have been ordered by both the Union Pacific Railroad (who refers to these locomotives as the C45ACCTE) and the BNSF, and deliveries to both are ongoing as of 2005.

The Evolution Series locomotives very much resemble the previous Dash 9 and AC series safety cab models in superficial appearance. Both AC and DC models have the large cabinet behind the crew compartment on the left-hand size which on the AC models houses the traction inverters. The previous Dash 9 models had a much smaller cabinet here than the AC models did. It is thus difficult to distingui***he DC and AC versions of the Evolution Series.Above this cabinet, at the top of the cab end of the long hood, there are four ventilation openings where previous models had three.The lower-roofed engine compartment is shorter than on previous models, thanks to the shorter prime mover. Earlier models had substantial space between the exhaust stack and the radiator "wings", and this is lacking on the Evolution Series.

The radiator section is significantly longer than the previous models, and appears more bulky. Unlike the earlier radiators, it overhangs at the rear. The sloped underside has two sections with different slope angles, unlike the single previous angle. The front end on top has a raised 'hump' - this area houses the enlarged intercooler system fitted to these locomotives.

Overall length is the same, and the trucks and fuel tanks are identical.

Dash 9-44CW Specifications
Builder: GE Transportation Systems
Model: Dash 9-44CW
Engine model GE 7FDL16
Engine type 45° V16, four stroke cycle, turbocharged
Transmission Alternator, silicon diode rectifiers, DC traction motors
Alternator GE GMG197
Traction Motors GE 5GE752AH
Power 4,400 hp 3,300 kW
Weight 394,000 lb 179,000 kg
Height 15 ft 4 in 4.67 m
Length 73 ft 2 in 22.30 m
Width 10 ft 3 in 3.12 m
Fuel capacity 5,000 US gal 18,900 L
Trucks GE HiAd
Wheel diameter 42 in 1.07 m

Hope this helps.

Frank Swafford

[andrewjonathon]

I guess in the west we get the newer locomotives. Maybe because of the mountains. Most of the CN locos that I see on the mainline in BC are fairly recent models.

since Hunter Harrison is very popular on this site you might interested on his perspective of the railroad's position. This came from an interview in Railway Age in August 2004.

"RA: Are you facing any capacity issues?

Harrison: We have no capacity issues. We've spent about $C300 million in the last five years to change from a railroad limited by 6,000-foot sidings to a new standard of about 10,000 to 12,000 feet. That's allowed us to increase our train size in excess of 30%. When you run trains that length consistently on a precision, scheduled railroad every day of the year, you're not using up as much capacity. Our average merchandise train is only using up 74% of the capacity available, for example. We can certainly grow 20% in the merchandise segment with our existing, scheduled trains and do it with few--if any--additional locomotives. Human resources aren't an issue, either. While we need to do some hiring because of attrition in certain spots in the U.S., we actually have surplus crews in western Canada. We've got the physical plant, locomotives, and people to grow. We're very blessed."

[Saxman]

Had the IC 1017 on a coke train to the Ford Rouge Plant a couple of weeks ago. It was still black with the "Death Star" on the front.


Saxman

[Junctionfan]

I guess he didn't say that he turned a needed double track Stratroy Sub (London-Sarnia) into single track mainline with "long sidings". Incidentally, they put back the double track-money well invested.

The trains I see are quite long but it isn't so much that the capacity problems itself that is the concern as much as they don't have enough stronger, newer locomotives to do the work (haul 150+car trains) Most of the big class 1 railroads have at least 1000 modern diesels except CN. The ones that don't like KCS and CP, have a good portion of AC power locomotives that can haul better.

Most railroads are replacing their "junk" with something better. Even Montana Rail Link has bought a few SD70ACEs. I don't know why it took CN so long to get the locomotives.

As far as I have been aware, CN was supposed to buy more C44-9Ws until the number series reached 2700. I think they left it at 2670 or something like that.

[Saxman]

In answer to your question why has CN held on to the "junk" power. Remember EHH came from the Illinois Cnetral. ( Yes I know he was also at Frisco and BN!) IC was one of the first railroads to rebuild power. Does Paducah Shops sound familiar. Remember GP10's? Well, the rebuild or buy others excees power persisted up to the merger with CN. Also, when EHH came on board in the early days of the merger (1999), one of the first things he did was cancel the new locomotives on order. Wouldn't need them. As a "scheduled' railroad, assets would be used wisely and trains would never encounter delays or power failures. Trains would arrive in a terminal as intended and the inbouond power WOULD be ready for its outbound counter part. Well some funny things happended. Trains didn't arrive on schedule, Power failed enroute, the economy picked up and winter arrived in Canada. (Since when in histroy did that ever happen?) Ever so slowly the "surplus" power started showing up on trains. My particular favorite to have on a train are the 9400 GP40's. They ride soooo well. Another all time favorite are the cowl units. (2400's, 5400's and 5500's) When I get one that the engine room by the air compressor is not a swamp, I know it will be a blessed day . LOL

Saxman

[Junctionfan]

I don't really like rebuilding locomotives for heavy haul jobs. That kind of stuff is o.k if it for a company train, MOW or excursion but not for regular work. You can't compare to the new fuel efficient updated to present day requirement locomotives to the old stuff that was in the prime several decades ago. There is a reason why the others have retired much of the old stuff; it cost to much on maintainance and fuel. Why spend all that money on rebuilding only to extend the life a little longer?

It's like those slugs that they still have. They have quite a few of those still left and what for? You can't run a slug by itself thus increasing motive power available, a GP or SW has to tag along to allow some sort of cab control.

How much are those new locomotives; 2 or 3.5 million? How much does it cost to rebuild and maintain the older ones and keep them efficient enough for operating? Plus you have to lash a number of them together just to equal one of the newer ones.