Pre-lube pump on Alco 539 N/A engines

[Dayliner]

I'm involved with the restoration, maintenance and operation of an MLW S3 (660 HP, M&S 539 normally-aspirated 6-cylinder engine, blt 1951). Some people in our organization are advocating the use of pre-lube pump on start-up. The manual doesn't specify using one, and it always starts fine without one, but there is a fitting for connecting the pump to the lube system. Any Alco veterans out there with some thoughts?

[Hugh Jampton]

I've worked on olde English diesels and we always turn the engine over 1 revolution by hand before starting, especially important if they've been sitting for a while.

[Dayliner]

Thanks SDR_North for the word to the wise. I'm assuming that the only reason this procedure doesn't show up in the manuals is that the manufacturer assumed (a) that the lcomotive would not be shut down for any extended length of time and (b), if it was, the shop forces would know what they were doing.

So now I have a second question: how did you know it's the 6503?

[Overmod]

One wonders how many MLW S3s are in operable condition in Vancouver... ;-}

Be interesting to know how many 539-equipped locomotives were actually equipped in service with prelubing equipment. I'd think that the added cost of the equipment would be viewed as not justified most of the time on a normal switch engine -- the incremental wear on the mains from the number of cold starts probably not measurably decreasing the effective bottom-end service life. Those are pretty big bearing shells (and when the engine is shut down, I don't believe the drain-down in the supply galleries is particularly rapid, but I don't know for sure) so the question is how long it takes to get oil pressure to working levels at the furthest point from the pump, and re-establish an effective oil film at that point -- I would suspect you'd see effects in places like the valve gear before you'd see them at the main or throw journals.

Note his very valid point about prelubing locomotives that have 'sat' for a period of time... this is as much to fill drained-back volume as it is to provide pressure for rapid hydrodynamic-bearing-film establishment. Not *that* much different in principle from what you do when changing oil filters on truck diesels... you have to fill the supply line before you actually get oil to where it's needed, and during that time the risk of causing cumulative bearing-surface damage is much more substantial!

I have no hesitation at all in saying that it's worthwhile to put a prelube system on a classic, museum engine. It's no longer a consideration of 'producing service hours at minimum total cost' -- it's about keeping a locomotive running with minimal servicing expense.

My recommendation -- perhaps obvious -- is that you combine your prelubrication pump (or accumulator) with some form of oil heater, and if necessary apply something like pipe heat tape to any critical lines or gallery areas to ensure that oil flow will be rapid and free to all important bearing surfaces. Something else to consider would be relieving the engine compression and turning the engine over a few revolutions with only frictional load on the mains when starting from cold -- I know this can be tedious, but might be justified if you're anticipating a lot of outdoor starts in colder conditions.

Part of the reason that prelubing might not be 'in the manuals' would be that MLW didn't make the prelubing equipment, and therefore the directions for use (and legal responsibility for problems, etc.) would rest with the equipment makers or providers. Is there a mention in the manual for the "fitting" you describe, or was it simply recognized by knowledgeable diesel people for what it was?

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dayliner

I'm involved with the restoration, maintenance and operation of an MLW S3 (660 HP, M&S 539 normally-aspirated 6-cylinder engine, blt 1951). Some people in our organization are advocating the use of pre-lube pump on start-up. The manual doesn't specify using one, and it always starts fine without one, but there is a fitting for connecting the pump to the lube system. Any Alco veterans out there with some thoughts?

Always pre lube engines that have not run for a while. EMD advocates prelubing after 2 days down. Unless you have the ability and the inclination to change all of the main bearings , a prelube pump is the way to go.
Randy

[athelney]

As one of the other members of the group helping Dayliner in the restoration of the WCRA 's S3 #6503, just a word of thanks for your input - we now have some " outside " comments that will clear up our questions . Hope at least some of you can come to Squamish & visit the project, as well as the #2860 Royal Hudson over the coming months & years .

[adrianspeeder]

Wow SDR! Cool pics. Although that one made me sad.

Adrianspeeder

[adrianspeeder]

Oh yeah, my diesel comments. I believe in the max protection possible. On my truck, I have installed an accumulator, secondary oil cooler, and a bypass filter. Only use synth oil, and get independant oil analysis done on all the trucks.

Have fun,
Adrianspeeder

[BNSFGP38]

Random thoughts from a Engineer, occasional RR museum shop person, diesel fan and some one who operates historic RR equipment.

1. Museums often dont have the deep pockets or facilitys railroads do, to do massive repairs like a end bearing change.

2. Oil is cheap, engines are not............change the oil frequently.

3. Oil on parts before start up will NEVER hurt and only can help.

4. What you have will never ever be made again, treat it accordingly!!!!!!!

5. A oil pump is cheap and replaceable, ALCO is irreplaceable!


This was almost a power DUH! LOL

Good luck

[Dayliner]

Thank you all for your helpful comments. Your advice and suggestions are very much appreciated and duly noted. We do have a pre-lube pump on site but it is never on the engine, so we are presently putting together one of our own. One more project among many.

And thanks, BNSFGP38, for your restraint in the "DUH" department. You would not believe how far removed from my own area of professional expertise this project is--I appreciate the gentle guidance from the people who actually know what they are talking about.

[athelney]

Just an update for those interested . --- Dayliner & myself hooked up a pre lube pump (borrowed from RS3 #561 ) last Friday . Ran it for about 20mins then started up CPR S3 #6503 for the first time since November last year . -- All went well . We are now going to get hoses for our own pump that was found in the back of the museum . So from now on we will be set up . Thanks for your valuable comments.