Graffitti & Auto Racks

[miniwyo]

I am not defending either, but, If theese people who are great at what they ae doing take go and put it to good use by creating thier art for murals or for somthing that is costructibe, not vandals.

[Anonymous]

hello to all,
first off I just want to say, i don't wi***o argue or fight as to what art is, and I come with my reply in a positive and friendly manner, but having had formal art instruction since the age of seven ( now 26) - University Graduate Student ( BA in Art emphasis in graphic design) - and being a native to Los Angeles - I can see how people can say that graffitti is not art, but I do not agree. Just like in formal art, there are good artists that know color theory, composition, and borrow ideas from art history, and there are not so good artists that make people question if their work is art or not. The same is true with graffitti. It is a form of expression by a group of people who have not had the opportunities I have had. Not everyone can learn formal art ( oil painting, watercolor, photography, etc.) But their artistic drive and passion still lives inside of them, yearning to break out. In an urban culture, the closest a kid from the streets or of a less than rich household, comes to an art exhibition - is by creating their own mural to show their talents and expressionwith spray cans. However, I believe there is a difference between taggers and graffitti artists. Taggers usually write, or "scribe" or tag their names to be recognized as an individual or part of a crew. ( usually done in a quick manner- sloppy messy writing) The more they write the more respect they get from others. - A graffitti artist usually paints with purpose of creating something colorful, dynamic, or simply beautiful. There are some graffitti artists who do know about color theory, composition, and other formal elements that make their piece stand out. As a professional Artist, having worked with illustrators from Disney, WB, UNiversal, and Dreamworks, and being exposed to the art culture in L.A. - I see a lot of the same qualities and characterisitcs of rendering, painting techniques, and color choices in the streets on walls as I do in the professional world. - More and more art programs get cut from school district programs and people still wonder why graffitti artists continue to grow in numbers. Its not obvious to those who are used to having the luxury of having the money to enroll their kids in art classes, but just think what your kid would do if he/ she loved art with all of their heart, but couldn't find the means to buy canvases oil paints, flaxseed oil,
watercolors, brushes, or other expensive art materials or even the classes themselves. If they really loved art and needed to express themselves - they probably secretly grow up in the shadows, risking their lives sometimes, just to relieve their minds and hearts with a simple piece of urban art. Graffitti, despite the surface or means of their media, is art.
In response to whether or not they get caught. They do, and the cities keep track of how many violations that "vandal" has written. When they get caught, they assess how much damage has been done and fine them for graffitti and all the cost of their damage to public and private property. At least thats what happens here in L.A. - a former high school companion of mine, is currently paying off $80,000 dollars of damage in monetary compensation and community service.
when u go to your next art exhibit in a museum and see an ugly painting, ask yourself is this art?
It might not always be pretty, but it is still art, it is till an expression of a living mind and its creative
soul.

[overall]

I have always wondered what kind of messege it sendes the shipper. If I recieved a car with all that graffitti on it I would wonder if that car might also be vulnerable to theft of my lading. Let's remember that the shipper is using the railroad to begin with because he has sold something that he needs to get to a consignee at the other end. A car that has already been the object of criminal activity would not engender much confidence in the carrier.

George

[Anonymous]

Some comments on this. Note: I am reporting, not defending.

The big, brightly colored graffitti we all see on freight cars are rarely (if ever) gang members, young teenagers, or pranksters, but mostly a small cult of people, mostly young men, who consider themselves artists.. I did some research on this a year ago and found that these people take themselves very seriously, have no use for gangs whatsoever, and have their own sets of approved behavior and ethics. They buy their paint. They're a cult by definition, although one we would like to go away. Their websites have all sorts of helpful tips such as "don't cover up the reporting marks!" because that will lead to the graffitti being immediately "marred" by the railroad spray-painting the reporting marks back on. And they have lots of discussion about what is good graffiti and bad, and have arguments about what is "art" and what isn't.

About a month ago, listening to a radio news program while stuck in traffic, I was interested to hear that graffiti pops up in connection with ... bear with me here, I just report what I hear ... hip-hop music. The person being interviewed was commenting that the two were co-mingled as art forms a few years ago but that since graffiti was (a) illegal in most instances (b) wasn't attracting commercial success (c) dangerous in some instances (d) passe (e) was fading out fast. Note that last part.

I do know that a year ago there were a number of rail-car graffitti websites that now are no longer begin maintained or have disappeared without new ones taking their place. And my observations seem to indicate that there is a lot less FRESH graffitti than there used to be. We can always hope.

In the meantime, there is almost nothing that railroads or anyone else can do that is cost-effective. I used to think that making spray-paint cans difficult to purchase would help, but if these are serious people, measures like that won't stop the serious person.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:
Here's an idea: the Class I's could set aside 1 or 2 cars in a safe, well lit area (a deadline or an out of the way yard track) and invite some taggers to come in and do a few pieces. After 2 or 3 days, they can reintroduce the cars into service. It would be a good way for the roads to get PR, it will give the artists a legal way to show their work, and it would look pretty cool seeing a car tagged in LA pull into Des Moines.

Things like that have been done on public buildings before. They allow the "Strret artists" so to speak to do these really nice murals on the sides of the buildings.

Apparently there is some sort of street code that you don't write over someone elses painting.

Now these walls that were a solid colour that had to be repainted every few months have a beautiful mural and people don't paint over them...

...it worked in this case anyway.

[Anonymous]

It's seemes like autoracks are not as prone

[rrnut282]

Why don't the railroads paint their equipment in all grafiti so the only thing the taggers can do is paint it a solid color?[swg] The additional cost of the original RR paint job might be worth it to eliminate the hassles of trespassers, etc.

[Anonymous]

painting trains requires the right way requires a great deal of respect and precision. NO numbers should be painted over at all costs. NO profane language that would offend your grandma or child, and all cans, caps, wrappers any garbage should leave the yard with you. it makes my month to see a white solidified paint marker we call a "streak" from John Easely or the Rambler roll in. i am friends with a few Union Pacific employees and they think it sometimes looks great, while other stuff is terrible. im retired from painting but aknowledge its presence in our society.

[Modelcar]

And in addition..., it is against the law to deface someone else's property. Defacing a piece of property that is intended to not have such painting would be a violation of law.

QM

[Anonymous]

This is in response to the previous idea that a railroad provide an open space with a couple cars for "youth" to paint. If this car is in interchange service for the obvious reason that this is their business the railroad wishes to get that car to the next railroad or step in it's travel. To allow graffiti would go against the image the railroad tries to provide as a clean source of efficient transportation and to blame the railroads as a whole for little used cars owned by private companies(usually) is no reason to suggest it be made open season on graffiti.

[Anonymous]

i know for a fact that many if not most graffiti writers are not gang involved minoritys. many white kids are involved in this strange but somewhat interesting phenominum.

[Anonymous]

A deposit on spray cans? What makes you think that they BUY the paint? I'm sure that most of it is stolen. Like a great many of our cities, freight trains today look like they just rolled out of some Third World country. As for the railroad cops, they'd rather go after an "easy" target like some guy with a camera, rather than try to apprehend some "poor opressed" minority member who might have a gun or a knife as well as a can of paint.

[Anonymous]

Why should anyone expect a railroad, building owner or city (or anyone else) to provide a palce for graffitisti to do their thing? If the little snots want to paint something, let them get a job and buy a canvas (or a building or a wall or whatever).

And my observation is that the kids with spray cans are frequently also involved with gangs and graduate to the MAC-10s one writer mentioned. Treating taggers as essentially ahrmless simply fosters a contempt for the alw that developses into more serious illegal behavior as time goes on.

[Anonymous]

Defacing private property is and should be a crime. I have seen many fine old brick buildings ruined by the "harmless artistry" that these guys are doing. How about a deposit on spray paint cans to help keep these kids from buying paint. We have a few cabooses left on our RR that have been tagged, it makes me sick to see these otherwise nice pieces of equipment ruined with gang symbols by some wanna be artist. Sad.

[Anonymous]

What about corprate graffiti on passenger trains?!

[Modelcar]

Graffiti placed on someone's property that is not intended to have it of course should be and is against the law.

How property owners prevent it is of course another story. It can't be condoned just because someone has "talent"...If possible, violators should be prosecuted and dealt a sentence of much time cleaning and repainting such property.

Railcars travel nationwide and in plain view of the public which I'm sure doesn't need additional items to view of something "trashed" in their everyday routine.

I'm sure some of these people really do have "talent", but if they want to pursue doing something with it...Start up the legitimate ladder to a career like any other honest citizen has to. We shouldn't condone painting graffiti on someone's property just because it may have taken talent to put it there.

QM

[Anonymous]

If the people are caught doing it and thier grafitti is not some gangsta tag and is more like a picture then maybe someone should say to them 'you're pretty good with that can why not put it to good use'. They could paint murals for the city or billboards or even railroad cars for the companies.

[Anonymous]

Grafitti goes with trains like rust, smoke, dirt and over grown weeds. It's all part of the rugged nature of railroads and adds character. I like the railroads the way they are, I always did. People who "weather" their model trains should add some grafitti on too.

[Anonymous]

I will go out on a limb with Steve. First I do not aggree with the profanity or other garbage some of the taggers put on the cars. And yes it is very dangerous to do it. But on the other hand I would rather see a kid with a can of spray paint in hand other than a mac-10 or some other gun or burning down a building just for fun. (Being in public safty I know I would) I have seen some rail cars beat to h@#@ that would benfit from a nicely done tag Yes days of billboard cars are over. Mostly all you see is plain jane cars. Tagging is been going on since the days of Kilroy was here and no matter what you think will keep going on. We do not live in a perfect world nor will we ever. Yes tagging is against the law. But so is murder, rape and robbery so think about it next time you see a tagged car what they could be doing and welcome to the 21st century

[Anonymous]

As a railfan,and a human being, grafiti always annoys me. In the boston area, most is profane, at the very least. I have seen some very attractive cars, (A Darling International Centerflow comes to mind) destroyed by grafiti.
Railroads and private companies spend millions of dollars to clean and maintain equipment. I liken it to someone spraypainting my car...i'd be...upset. They are seldom caught, but if they are, they can be prosecuted

Be safe out there,
Greg

[Anonymous]

When I was on vaction in San Antonio I saw an old SP engine with graffitti all down the side of it. I also saw a few Cabooses (UP & SP) that where near perfect condition with graffitti on them to that made me so sick.

[Anonymous]

Wow, I didn't expect that long of a response. My thinking on this is that the railroads could take a page from the cities. I know of projects where the major cities (LA, Chitown) set aside public property (a wall, an overpass) for taggers to come in and do their work. I'm saying that the roads could get some good publicity for a community outreach project like this. Afterwards, somebody can look over it, determine if anything needs to be painted over, and send it on its way. And if their worried about the reporting marks getting painted over, they can cover them up with paper and masking tape beforehand.

I do not advocate tagging just for the sake of leaving your mark (gang symbols, lame Chinese and profanity fall into this catergory), but I believe that every artist should be allowed to work in whatever medium they are most comfortable in. For some that just happens to be Krylon on boxcar. While grafitti on private property is officially called vandalism, the worst that happens usually is they pay a fine and have to paint over it. Do not treat these people (mostly kids with sharp minds who have gotten into the wrong crowd) like they just threw a rock through your car window. Last I heard, nobody got killed by a kid with a can of spray paint.

[Anonymous]

radiodude-obviously you have a higher regard for these vandals than I do. Why do the railroads go to the bother and expense to even paint their cars if they "don't care"? They of course will still use tagged cars to keep the freight moving, but they do incur expenses when taggers don't leave the reporting marks uncovered or where there is blatant profanity and the like. If these so called artists want to show off their work, why don't they do it legally? Maybe they shouldn't have dropped out in the 10th grade after all! What's next, letting them tag tractor trailers(even more visible to the general public!), or renting out a billboard for them each month? Sorry, I don't have too much respect for someone who can only express themselves by trespassing under cover of the night and vandalizing private property. You can put whatever spin on it you want to, that's what it amounts to. Terry

[Anonymous]

I don't think that much spray actually gets on the cars. The Auto Racks are designed with the cars sitting towards the middle of the car, so there's room for the spray to dissipate before it can reach the body. The ventilation grating also deflects the paint a bit.

I don't know how many taggers are actually caught. I also think that for the railroads, the issue of grafitti isn't as much a vandalism issue (honestly, most tagged boxcars look better than they did before) as it is safety. Most tagging is done at night, when there are less people around. This is also the most dangerous time, especially in expansive switching yards. The RR's probably don't care that their hoppers and reefers are getting new paint jobs, but they do care if one of the artists (referring to the ones who actually do more than just their nickname or gang symbol) get injured or killed on RR property.

Here's an idea: the Class I's could set aside 1 or 2 cars in a safe, well lit area (a deadline or an out of the way yard track) and invite some taggers to come in and do a few pieces. After 2 or 3 days, they can reintroduce the cars into service. It would be a good way for the roads to get PR, it will give the artists a legal way to show their work, and it would look pretty cool seeing a car tagged in LA pull into Des Moines.

[dknelson]

it seems an unlikely target for a "piece" as the taggers call what they regard as a "masterpiece" -- the real elaborate stuff rather than just gang symbols or phoney-Chinese words.
What I have noticed is that some taggers are starting to adjust their "art" to carefully preserve the car data that is required to be visible -- thus giving the railroad less immediate reason for destroying their "piece."
I am reluctant to call these vandals artists or their efforts art, but still and all -- some of them are darned incredible!
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Just curious-are the auto racks required to have as much ventilation as they do? With the damage done to the autos inside by graffitti vandals (sorry-not artists), you would think a better design of the rail car would be in order. Perhaps making the bottom half solid and the top half ventilated? I see more than my fair share of auto racks here in KC and I'm amazed at how many have been "tagged" somewhere along the way. Are these guys ever caught, and if so, what happens? Terry in KC