How hard is it to unpin trucks from railroad cars?

[Anonymous]

Thinking of putting together proposal to move railroad cars by barges. Would be easer if they were unhooked from there riding trucks. There would be less slipage and more clearance

[dharmon]

I believe they call this concept "containers". They come in various sizes from 20'-53'. They can be loaded on ships, barges, trains, and trucks. No removing cars from bolsters required.

[lonewoof]

Just out of curiosity -- are trucks ATTACHED to a car body? or does the car body just SIT on the truck bolster, held down by gravity? (I have mental pictures of a GIANT 2-56 screw, up through the truck bolster into the body bolster). Been deali ng with HO too long...

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Every freight cars sits on its trucks strictly by the force of gravity, no fasteners of any type are involved.

Freight cars have been moved on barges and ferries of all sorts for a very long time. Those of us around the Great Lakes are familiar with C&O's and Ann Arbor's enclosed carferries across Lake Michigan and the open deck carferries across the Detroit River at Detroit-Windsor and the St. Clair River at Port Huron-Sarnia. New Yorkers are familiar with carfloats in New York harbor and there is also open-water barge service to Alaska.

Clearances are not a problem and it is a lot less time-consuming to move the cars on their own wheels even with the various jacks and tie-downs used compared to removing each car from its wheels for loading and returning it to its wheels upon unloading.

[Anonymous]

"Every freight cars sits on its trucks strictly by the force of gravity, no fasteners of any type are involved."

You mean that 2,000 pound trucks could go flying all over the place in derailment? The Trucks are not held in by some sort of cotter pin?

[GP40-2]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dunkirkeriestation

"Every freight cars sits on its trucks strictly by the force of gravity, no fasteners of any type are involved."

You mean that 2,000 pound trucks could go flying all over the place in derailment? The Trucks are not held in by some sort of cotter pin?

Yep, thats exactly what happens.

[StillGrande]

Exactly right. I visited a car repair facility back in the 90's and was amazed that the trucks are not attached. There is a pin which sticks up and fits in a hole in the bottom of the body of the car. That's it.

I also remember seeing pictures of a train which had blown over in a tornado. The trucks and locomotives were all sitting on the tracks. The cars were sitting on their sides next to the tracks.

[daveklepper]

Less damage to the track in a tornado that way!

[arbfbe]

The top of the truck bolster has a cup that fits around a center plate on the body bolster and there is about a 1" to 1.5" steel pin in the center of that as has been previously mentioned. It has worked very well for over 100 years. Passenger cars and locos have mechanical fasteners to replace the center pin.

Kalmbach's new book about freight cars has photos of these components.

[tree68]

That the trucks are not attached to the car is partly by design, especially on tank cars. It supposedly lessens the possibility of damage to the car. At least that's what I was told at a RR hazmat familiarization session.

[harpwolf]

Brake rigging. It doesn't exactly *hold* the truck on the carbody, but disconnect it before lifting the car off its trucks.

The trucks themselves are held together by gravity. If you lift a truck wrong, it'll disassemble itself explosively. Safety first.

If you want the trucks to stay with the car when you lift it, that can be done. Talk to wreck crews - they do it all the time.

[Anonymous]

So this is by design? Not even a cotter pin? You would think that if there was a train wreck and a RR car truck landed in some guys lap in his living room that would be a major insurace problem.

[edblysard]

If you live close enough to the tracks for a wheelset and truck to land in your lap, your already a insurance issue!

One set of trucks, with wheels, weighs more than most full sized pick ups.
It takes a lot, and I mean a lot, to get them airborn...

One of the reason they are not attached by anything other than a kingpin and gravity is because it allows the truck sideways play on bad track.

It also is designed this way so if the car does derail at speed, the trucks will fail, and allow the car to hit the ground, much better than a loaded railcar that can roll free, with or without track!
You literally want to kick the feet out from under these things if they get free and rolling.

Last, the system has worked quite well for over a century, why change something that works?

Ed

[Anonymous]

So if a car is loaded top heavy it could fall off its trucks and land on its side?

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

If you live close enough to the tracks for a wheelset and truck to land in your lap, your already a insurance issue!

One set of trucks, with wheels, weighs more than most full sized pick ups.
It takes a lot, and I mean a lot, to get them airborn...

One of the reason they are not attached by anything other than a kingpin and gravity is because it allows the truck sideways play on bad track.

It also is designed this way so if the car does derail at speed, the trucks will fail, and allow the car to hit the ground, much better than a loaded railcar that can roll free, with or without track!
You literally want to kick the feet out from under these things if they get free and rolling.

Last, the system has worked quite well for over a century, why change something that works?

Ed

[tup][tup][tup] Attaboy, MISTER UniHead!

Plus - What do you need a cotter pin for with all the brake rigging holding the truck in place.[:D]....Hard enough getting the car to seat on the plate on the truck after replacing the bullpin/kingpin anyhow. If one of those rascals bends in a derailment, oh boy![banghead][banghead][banghead]

[lonewoof]

Yeah; guess it WOULD take one heck of a cotter pin...

[Anonymous]

So there is no Cotter Pin? So what is the procedure for lifting the car body off the trucks? Unhook the brake chains and lift off the car body with a heavy cargo crane? What kind of Wire cable would I need to lift a fully loaded 100 ton RR car? Hate to be the guy who has to go under a 100 ton railroad car and line them up with the trucks.

[edblysard]

Big bottle jacks.
I mean big, they look to be about the size of a 55 gallon drum.
And, once you have the car sitting on the jack, about the only thing that can knock it off is another rail car hitting it.
Read the light weight numbers on just about any railcar, these things are heavy, real heavy, it takes a lot of energy to make them move in any direction other than the way the trucks and wheels are pointed.

Ed

[mudchicken]

Not always a cable or bottle jack lifting the car either, especially with tank cars. Big wide padded lifting straps..

[edblysard]

I like Hulchers "little" dozer, back hoe and crane in one!
Should make every city keep one on hand for freeway duty!

Give those guys a little room, some chain, a few blocks of wood, and they can pick up just about anything you want![:D]

Ed

[dharmon]

Actually it's pretty easy to do. Just get a good running start and hit the car with your shoulder...like cow tipping...easy try it.

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

I like Hulchers "little" dozer, back hoe and crane in one!
Should make every city keep one on hand for freeway duty!

Give those guys a little room, some chain, a few blocks of wood, and they can pick up just about anything you want![:D]

Ed

Unfortunately those cowboys with the sideboom CAT dozers make the final damage tally much worse than it should be (though I admit they have a use.).....prefer the use of rubber tired [^][^][^]CAT 988's [ hard to find, no longer made] with a beefed-up transmission and extra counterweights.....much more productive and less damage in the hands of a good operator![;)]

[Anonymous]

Lessee, now. Offa toppa my head you got four wheels weighing about 800 pounds apiece (say, on a 70-ton car); two axles each weighing about the same, so you got plus or minus 5000 pounds worth of rotating machinery there including roller bearings; you got a bolster weighing about 1000 pounds or more and two side frames weighing about a thousand apiece including springs, snubbers and roller bearing adapters; you got two brake beams with shoes and levers - oh, say, 400 pounds more. So you got maybe 8 or 9 tons in each truck.

Somebody out there has, I'm sure, the exact weights of all these components for all the various trucks in use today, but these figures aren't far off.

The car bolster has a "center casting" attached to it, or cast integrally with it, that fits into a matching round female cavity in the truck bolster. In the center of the truck bolster is a smaller cavity into which is placed a "kingpin" which extends upward into a matching cavity in the car bolster.

Car repair shops use air jacks to raise cars so that trucks can be rolled out from under for repairs or component replacement. The truck bolsters and side frames are designed with considerable safety factors and rarely break from normal in-service usage; the same with springs and snubbers. Wheels are another matter. Brake beams rarely need replacement, but shoes can wear out rapidly, especially on the downhill side of a mountain railroad.

Years ago the N&W test -weighed several coal trains leaving Bluefield, W. Va. and weighed them again on arrival at Roanoke after dropping down East River Mountain from Bluefield to Glen Lyn, and again after dropping down Alleghany Mountain from Christiansburg to Elliston. The trains lost more than a hundred pounds on the average, all brake shoe wear.

Old Timer

[Anonymous]

Oh, and I almost forgot the side bearings. These are usually rollers that ride in pocket castings on the truck bolsters a foot or so inside the side frames, and contact matching pads on the underside of the car body bolster. They should not both make contact at the same time, however, unless there is some sort of special appliance on the car that makes it normal . . .

But they only add about, say, 25 pounds apiece to the truck . . .

Old Timer

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Actually it's pretty easy to do. Just get a good running start and hit the car with your shoulder...like cow tipping...easy try it.

Great now we'll have a bunch of stupid people out in the middle of no where trying "Boxcar tipping" instead of cow tipping and mail box baseball.

[mersenne6]

Back in the 19th century when eveyone and their grandmother had a different track gauge a common sight at interchange points where two railroads of different gauges met, was the railroad car truck exchanger. There were a number of different styles. The way they worked was beams on external trucks would be inserted under the car body and the whole combination would roll forward to a pit. As the rail underneath the car sloped away from the car, the trucks and the car body would part company. The car, now supported with just the beams would continue to move forward towards the new set of trucks which would be pushed forward until they mated with the car. The car, with its newly installed trucks would continue out onto the track of the connecting railroad. I've seen illustrations in 19th century journals showing this apparatus. Those illustrations that I've seen also show lots of spare car trucks sitting on sidings next to the exchanger waiting to be used.

[Anonymous]

So is this how they do it in Australia?

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SteamerFan

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Actually it's pretty easy to do. Just get a good running start and hit the car with your shoulder...like cow tipping...easy try it.

Great now we'll have a bunch of stupid people out in the middle of no where trying "Boxcar tipping" instead of cow tipping and mail box baseball.

Just doing my part to help cull the herd.

[Anonymous]

I learn something new every day here, so thanks fellas.

Questions about brakes on freight cars... I get the impression that when the brakes are applied, they are on continuously. Do freight cars have anti-skid brakes? If not, would such an installation lessen damage to the wheels and track? It's prolly a pair of dumb questions, but if it works for cars and trucks....

Erik

[SALfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Actually it's pretty easy to do. Just get a good running start and hit the car with your shoulder...like cow tipping...easy try it.

If you try this, please let us know so we can film it. Should be a sidesplitter to watch!

As far as the cow tipping, I've known a few bulls who could make any attempt at cow tipping an event worth filming, too. My uncle had a bull that did significant damage to a pickup truck, when the truck dared to come into "his" (the bull's) pasture. Go ahead, bad boy, try to tip that beast!