Guru or Goof

[Anonymous]

I recently read the forum "is EMD doomed" and while it was very entertaining I left it wondering who to believe. I am a cherry rail fan. What we need is a way to verify expertise. I wi***rains Magazine would come up with a way to verify knowledge and experience. Maybe they could submit a resume form or a test. After completing this form or test participants in this forum would have stars shown next to their names to indicate their level of knowledge and experience. Then we could make assesments of their opinions based upon their ratings. It is fun to listen to opinionated people bash each others' views; but as an admitted cherry, it is sometimes hard to separate the sh** from the shineola. While I'm at it, they could also offer spell and grammar check. Please respond to this. If enough people respond Trains Magazine might implement this idea. Thanks, Ron

[Anonymous]

I wood shure apreciate the spill check! :)
Relph

[Anonymous]

Ron:

You should never believe what you read on this, or any other forum, without outside cooberation. You have to read up the backgrund on the topics, read other sites that provide news topics, keep up to date, yada yada, and hopefully make contact with those who have the experience that you lack, or the knowledge, or both, and not be afraid to ask dumb questions.

I never take what I read here as even half truth until I have confirmed it elsewhere. That said, this forum can be useful as a place to explore ideas, and also as a place to learn what the rumors are. It's a lead generator, but not much more. (It also works a little cumbersomely.)

Nevertheless, I understand what you are coming from. I just think it's easier and safer to simply assume that you are reading no more than an educated opinion at best or an ignorant rant at worst, and adjust your scale of belief accordingly.

Or to be brief- the forum is just fun, take everything here with a grain of salt.

And yes, I realize that even includes me!

[Anonymous]

Ron,What Alexander says is true.Also if one posts here it is done with good natured fun and with the intention of giving one's opinion and offering frist hand knowledge of some of the issues.At least thats the way I treat these forums.You'll always run into people who aren't who they appear to be and also people who all they want to do is insult anothers integrity.Just read what is written and come to your own concusions and not be swayed by what others say.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your reply. I realize that forum infornation must be taken with a grain of salt. Do you think that the participants would be reluctant to take a test or submit a knowledge/ experiance resume as it might discredit their views? For the truly knowledgable people it might be rewarding. Just a thought. Ron

[Anonymous]

I would also like to add that a spell check would be very much appreciated by me! :)

[Anonymous]

I personally would like to see some kind of test or a way to verify one's area of expertise.It would help to others to believe one is who he says he is and get rid of the naysayers.

[CShaveRR]

I don't know how you could rate the people on this forum. I've been a railroader for over thirty years, and at work I'm often asked the tough questions because people feel I'm most likely to have an answer. Yet, if I were to start talking about EMDs vs. GEs, just about anything I say wouldn't exactly be Shineola (I do know the difference...Shineola is a shoe polish).
I could tell you the areas that I THINK I'm an expert on, but I doubt that doing that would be enough to make people hold my opinions in high regard.

I'm sure spell-check would help in some cases, but I see too many instances where "their" is used for "there", and other things like that, where you'd need just a bit more of a check than on the spelling. And most spell-checks I know of go crazy over things like SD40, BNSF, CTC, Bethgon, railfan, and people's names (until they're programmed to recognize them). I trust I've made the points I intended to here, but I think that a good grammar check would trip me up in several places (it still might be a good idea, though many people would be upset at the time consumed by such "irrelevant education").

[Anonymous]

I think it'd drive off a bunch of people to other forums, as it would be intimidating. And how would one "prove" one's credentials? You could always lie about your experience, and tests can be faked.

A better solution, and one imposed on some lists I belong to, is to post your full and genuine name. But I don't think TRAINS can impose such a thing on us.

Basically, I agree, yes, many would avoid it because they are railfans but little more. I won't pretend to be a big RR exec, but I am constantly surprised at some who will make posts on a topic that is hot at that time, and yet will not be aware of very basic facts on an issue that can be had just by visiting the news section of this very site! (And I don't refer to "facts" but to hard facts, places, dates, numbers, qoutes.)

But I agree with your desire to know more. I also belong to a list where there are people posting as multiple individuals using hotmail free accounts, ganging up on each other for flame wars. It isn't that bad here, but yeah. there sure are a lot of self-pronounced experts around, aren't there?

Non-expert railfan,
Reason utilizing businessman,
Alexander Craghead
Portland, Oregon, USA
Who may disagree without being disagreable,
And who never flames.

[Anonymous]

Get rid of the naysayers?

You assume that naysayers are unqualified, because of their position? So critics aren't intelligent people?

Ok, maybe that wasn't what you meant. But it's what it read like.

Since this is a railfan site, not an industry think tank, most people posting won't have any expertise at all. Welcome to Democracy, a wild place where we trust- perhaps foolishly, perhaps not- that all are capable of Reason.

I choose to beleive that is not a foolish idea.

Best, Alexander
Occaisional naysayer

[Anonymous]

Alexander,What I meant by naysayer,maybe the incorrect word,is one who insults one's integrity by calling them a liar.After all I'm just a dumb locomotive engineer who does know a little about running trains and railroading.
Keith Heytink
Denver,Co.
Who disagrees with the uninformed.
Who doesn't like being told he's a liar.

[dknelson]

On internet forums, as in politics, newspapers, church, school, work, life .... it's each man for himself. You hear someone speak and YOU have to decide whether it makes sense or not. That is why knowledge pays.
Besides if we had qualifications to post things we'd miss out on highly entertaining posts like the guy who absolutely insisted that there was a Norfolk & Western Y-3 2-8-8-2 running in India, converted to nuclear power (from time to time he claimed he did the conversion). It was nuts but fun and the fact that some people took him seriously enough to try to argue with him added to the fun.

Dave "self appointed expert" Nelson

[Anonymous]

The best information comes from the people who operate the equipment,not the people who watch it.This site is full of the latter-individuals who are so sentimental and biased with respect to railroading that they are unable to state an objective thought.Perhaps someone should/could develop a web site where only pro railroaders can post and have "read-only" status for amateurs.As for spelling,there is an engineer who works for NS and is a regular contributor on this site.I hope his spelling isn't indicative of his intelligence.It's so bad it's comical;Perhaps he is having the last laugh.

[wabash1]

the only thing im soray for iz dat i got in a flam war witth some 1. i give answers to thing i havee sum knowladge of. i culd say sum thaang about the amtrak derail ment but it is second hand nowladge . things i have done or xspereance with i put my 2 sense in. i luv my job and can make fun of my self as well as uthers. and the ns sends us to georgia to skool to learn to talk and spel. and run trains. some people call this driving a train. when i get 2 the 3rd grade may b i mite b smart ter. thank u 4 ur time. havee a fun day.

[Anonymous]

Right on que.How's life on the inness?

[Anonymous]

Hey Ron, you better hurry up an get that cherry popped!! Give me a break, cataloge this, catagoryize that! This is about railroads!!! You are probley a little young to remember the song Little Boxes, well check it out. We are all here to have fun. If you can not figure it out, do RESARCH!!! Tim

[Anonymous]

I can only claim to be a semi-expert in one specific part of railroading: the Union Pacific (ex-CNW, ex-CGW) spur line that runs to Bondurant, Iowa, at MP 233, and I'm still learning new things about it every day. Otherwise, I'm pretty well clueless. But I try my best to form a coherent opinion, which isn't always the easiest thing.

Steve Young (not THAT Steve Young!)
Bondurant, Iowa
Fan of the rails,
Bleeding CNW yellow and green till I die

[BRAKIE]

Speaking as a former PRR and Chessie(c&o) brakeman,I get a good laugh out of some of the replies.I will tell you this,There once was a real young and cocky model railroader/railfan thought he knew all the answers.When this young lad hired out on the PRR he found out real fast the way it really was.You might say I got a rude awaking to the cold hard facts of railroading even though I came from a railroading family.

It seems popular today to find fault with the rail roads,the very thing we love.I recall the days when railfans would talk about that newest locomotive that a given road bought.Now,most want to get into the politics of rail roading.Why bother? we are not going to change the railroads with our rantings not one bit..
Why not enjoy the hobby and leave the politics out...Of course there is nothing a wrong with a debate over a important matter such as Amttak and what to do with it.

[Anonymous]

And dont forget Trucking .

[Anonymous]

Phew! I thought you were playing dirty!

I agree that some people get out of hand in this forum. I guess it's the price you pay for no moderator.

BTW where did you get flamed? on GE vs EMD, or on one of the numerous Amtrak threads?

AC
Who's never called you a liar- heck i don't think we've ever even chatted before?

[Anonymous]

Oh, and i didn't mean to be mean at all, if I did, I apologize. I just read my earlier reply and it was a little irreverent

I guess I was a little cheesed at the time, as there are some on the Amtrak threads who have clear agendas and beleive anyone who disagrees is an idiot that ought to shut up and go home. Not all, mind you- there are some I can't disagree with more, but who are reasonable guys. But there are also some real nuts out there....

Wish you luck, stay safe out there on the rails,

Alexander

[Anonymous]

Alexander,No apology needed,but thanks anyway.I don't mind being disagreed with or even called stupid,but when someone accusses me of being a fraud as ,don't know what to call him or her, did in "Is EMD Doomed" ,well that crosses the line for me.Read the post from ptt100 7/29/02 and you'll see what got me going.

[Anonymous]

CLAP,,CLAP,,CLAP,. Well said Larry! We are all on this forum to have fun, AND MAYBE LEARN!! There is one thing that made me more or less get out of the hobby, is the nitpickers. If things were not just so YOUR OUT! Well in my humble opion they do not belong here. True we have to wade thru all of the stuff. Oh as far as things go I am still active but I guard myself against people who are to judgemental or only for themselves. To me this is one of the greates learning hobbies that should not be constricted by unessary rules an regs, we have enough of that in our government. So much for my rant. but it is my $.02 worth!!!! Tim

[Anonymous]

I can see how some pro railroaders might like a site that was for them only and would not accept posts by amateurs. I'm glad that's not the case here though so I can have questions answered. I really appreciated getting responses to a recent question regarding railroaders' thoughts about F units. I learned interesting details only a railroad employee would know such as the fact that the throttle was out of reach if you leaned out the window for a look at the rear of the loco! Thanks train crews for telling us modelers about your experiences!
Ralph

[Anonymous]

Keith:

Oh, yeah, I saw that post thread. Ouch. You have my sympathies!

[Anonymous]

Please take out your crayons, write out what you are going to post, and proof read your statement before you actualy post it! You may indeed have something worth while to say, but, I cannot get past the fact that you sound like an idiot. If your poor spelling and grammar are intended to be a joke; please stop. It's not funny. In fact it is boreing. sincerely, not perfect either

[Anonymous]

Ronald(?)

Your request is interesting. One problem I have would be just because someone knows when to use the dynamic and not the train brake, doesn't make them an authority on another subject like 'Why doesn't Amtrak repair the damaged equipment'. I just can't think of a test which would do the trick.

I belong to another forum where the users can vote a person to a higher status. If you like a post and think it represents a depth of knowledge, you cast a vote for that user. When they get a certain number of votes, they get a star by their name. If they get a lot more, they get two stars. It keeps going all the way up to four stars. Anyway, it is one method of rating users. - Ed

[Anonymous]

Ed, Amtk hasn't fixed their bad order equipment on account they were obsessed with braking even by 2003.Now that they find themselves short because of the recent derailments M.Gunn has called back some of the shop personal at Beech Grove,In. to repair said equipment.
But I guess because all I know how to do is decide which to use, dynamic or automatic air,doesn't make me a authority even though I work in the industry. Keith

[Anonymous]

Keith,

The question regarding Amtrak was intended to illustrate that a proper test would be hard to formulate because there is such a wide range of subject matter discussed here. Sorry I upset your sensibilities. In this vein, I shall try and refrain from discussing anything here except structural mechanics, choir music and chess. - Ed

[favuprailroadfan]

Ron,

I think that is a very good idea. TRAINS should put out something like that and see how much everybody knows plus why not their opinions. And yes, they should verify this so maybe all this rumor stuff will cease. They issue something like 250,000 copies a month for the magazine. That would be alot of replies because I am sure that almost everyone will do this kind of thing. Well I hope that alot of people reply to you because I want to see this happen. I am also a very avid railfan. I don't just go out and chase. I go out and talk to the crews, get info about the trains that will be running through and then pick out a spot to enjoy it. I have gained so much knowledge that I have even baffles the crews themselves. I know stuff they don't even know about the railroad that they work for! Well lets see how this is going to work out.

Laters, Dru