QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98 anything "could" be moved by truck that is moved by train..but it would take a hell of alot of trucks to do what 1 unit train can do.... 1 unit train of grain or coal of 100 cars and weighing around 15000 tons...would take a fleet of trucks to move..... you want more trucks on the highways? csx engineer
23 17 46 11
QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98 anything "could" be moved by truck that is moved by train..but it would take a hell of alot of trucks to do what 1 unit train can do.... 1 unit train of grain or coal of 100 cars and weighing around 15000 tons...would take a fleet of trucks to move..... you want more trucks on the highways? csx engineer Ahem.... [8] A river barge properly manned and with enough capacity can haul everything you can put on that 80 car train. [^]
QUOTE: Originally posted by TheS.P.caboose To go a little further on what csxengineer98 was saying, back in 1983 the Southern Pacific started a unit tank train, a contract train for Shell Oil, that is a unit train carrying crewd oil 1,848,600 gallons worth in 78 tankers with a weight of 10,608 tons that moved from Bakersfield to the Shell Oil refinery in the Long Beach area. It would take up a lot of tanker trucks for that move.
QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by TheS.P.caboose To go a little further on what csxengineer98 was saying, back in 1983 the Southern Pacific started a unit tank train, a contract train for Shell Oil, that is a unit train carrying crewd oil 1,848,600 gallons worth in 78 tankers with a weight of 10,608 tons that moved from Bakersfield to the Shell Oil refinery in the Long Beach area. It would take up a lot of tanker trucks for that move. The Shell crude moved by pipeline before the train started in late 1981.
QUOTE: Question how fast can the Oil move in a pipeline?
QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds Question how fast can the Oil move in a pipeline? For what it's worth, being that I read it in the Chicago Tribune, fuel from Texas moves to Chicago via pipeline at 4 MPH. But it just keeps comming out of that pipe, or so I hope. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply tatans Member sinceMay 2004 4,115 posts Posted by tatans on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 9:59 PM Large military convoys(heavy tanks etc) over long distances. Reply ericsp Member sinceMay 2015 5,134 posts Posted by ericsp on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 10:08 PM Hoboes. "No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld) Reply chad thomas Member sinceJanuary 2005 From: Ely, Nv. 6,312 posts Posted by chad thomas on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 10:10 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by TheS.P.caboose To go a little further on what csxengineer98 was saying, back in 1983 the Southern Pacific started a unit tank train, a contract train for Shell Oil, that is a unit train carrying crewd oil 1,848,600 gallons worth in 78 tankers with a weight of 10,608 tons that moved from Bakersfield to the Shell Oil refinery in the Long Beach area. It would take up a lot of tanker trucks for that move. The Shell crude moved by pipeline before the train started in late 1981. If the oil moved in a pipeline b4 81' why did the SP even get involved??? I don't think a pipeline ever moved oil in this lane. Reply ericsp Member sinceMay 2015 5,134 posts Posted by ericsp on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 10:16 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by TheS.P.caboose To go a little further on what csxengineer98 was saying, back in 1983 the Southern Pacific started a unit tank train, a contract train for Shell Oil, that is a unit train carrying crewd oil 1,848,600 gallons worth in 78 tankers with a weight of 10,608 tons that moved from Bakersfield to the Shell Oil refinery in the Long Beach area. It would take up a lot of tanker trucks for that move. The Shell crude moved by pipeline before the train started in late 1981. If the oil moved in a pipeline b4 81' why did the SP even get involved??? I don't think a pipeline ever moved oil in this lane. Almost all of the crude oil from the southern San Joaquin Valley and central coast goes to LA. The August 1994 issue of Trains has an article about the Oil Cans. Also, the BKDOU, then MJDOU, has been completely replaced by a pipeline. They finally built a new one. It seems like it was over the Tejon Pass. I remember seeing a new pipeline being laid there in the late 1990s. "No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld) Reply chad thomas Member sinceJanuary 2005 From: Ely, Nv. 6,312 posts Posted by chad thomas on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 10:41 PM I've been out of the LA scene for a few years (disclaimer),but... The only pipeline I know of is the one from Bakersfield(Taft) to Mojave(Fleta). The tank train still runs from Mojave to Dolores. The pipeline just eliminated the run over the hill. Reply drgw12 Member sinceMarch 2005 From: Leadville, CO 5 posts Posted by drgw12 on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 10:58 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp Hoboes. LOL!!! [:D]Good one. Definatly got a laugh out of me. I don't think that Hoboes can travel by anything else ether.[;)] Reply ajmiller Member sinceOctober 2003 From: State College PA 344 posts Posted by ajmiller on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 11:21 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp Hoboes. Is it cheaper to ship Minnesota hoboes to the Pacific Northwest or Montana hoboes? Reply ericsp Member sinceMay 2015 5,134 posts Posted by ericsp on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 11:25 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas I've been out of the LA scene for a few years (disclaimer),but... The only pipeline I know of is the one from Bakersfield(Taft) to Mojave(Fleta). The tank train still runs from Mojave to Dolores. The pipeline just eliminated the run over the hill. No, the Mojave to Dolores run was eliminated in 1999, three years after the Mojave terminal opened. The Bakersfield Californian had an article about it in May 1999. Their online archieves do not go back that far, however, you can probably buy a copy of the article from them. Paramount Petroleum is using the Mojave terminal as an asphalt terminal (http://www.ppcla.com/Paramount/l_mojave.html). If you cannot view the photopgraphs in the Paramount Petroleum link in Netscape, try Internet Explorer. http://www.aspeneg.com/L2/L2_AIR_PacificPipeline.htm http://www.pacificenergypartners.com/iPACHD2c.htm http://www.pacificenergypartners.com/IPACHD2WCO.htm http://www.pacificenergypartners.com/iPAC2H01.htm http://www.pacificenergypartners.com/iPACH3b.htm It looks like Anschutz was involved with it. "No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld) Reply dehusman Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Omaha, NE 10,621 posts Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 7:50 AM A power company is building a coal fired power plant in Arkansas. A local farmer drives up to the construction superintendent and asks what they're buiding. The super tells him a coal fired power plant. The local tells him if he needs to haul coal he has a dump truck. The super tells him he doesn't understand they are going to use a LOT of coal. The local tells the super in that case, if the company will guarantee him the loads, he'll go buy a second dump truck. True story. Dave H. Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,006 posts Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 8:59 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds Question how fast can the Oil move in a pipeline? For what it's worth, being that I read it in the Chicago Tribune, fuel from Texas moves to Chicago via pipeline at 4 MPH. But it just keeps comming out of that pipe, or so I hope. I calculated the speed of water moving through a 5" fire hose at 1000 gallons per minute for a training exercise - it is travelling at about 11 mph. If I remember my area calculations correctly the cross section is a little less than 20 square inches. A 10" pipe would have over three times the cross section. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 9:33 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Conrail7659 Large pieces of dimension limestone, limestone used in building construction (pentagon, all kinds of memorials, etc.) I know use to basically use a all rail route until it got very near the final destination. This is basically due to the fact that it is cost prohibitive to ship very heavy pieces long distance by truck. All kinds of permitting and escorts are needed for very large and heavy loads. Another example is the Boeing aircraft bodies and parts, which travel on the "Boeing Train" from Kansas to Washington State. Washington County Railroad no longer moves stone for Rock of Ages Quarry. But with the war and the increased buisness from that who knows? Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 9:37 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp Hoboes. Nah most of them became hitchikers. But the truth is with Greyhound and go any were for 69 dollers or less with unlimited stops many bo's just ca***here check and take the bus. Reply Edit adrianspeeder Member sinceMarch 2002 From: Harrisburg PA / Dover AFB DE 1,482 posts Posted by adrianspeeder on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 9:50 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman A power company is building a coal fired power plant in Arkansas. A local farmer drives up to the construction superintendent and asks what they're buiding. The super tells him a coal fired power plant. The local tells him if he needs to haul coal he has a dump truck. The super tells him he doesn't understand they are going to use a LOT of coal. The local tells the super in that case, if the company will guarantee him the loads, he'll go buy a second dump truck. True story. Dave H. Ahhh, the powerstroke diesel will handle it.... Adrianspeeder USAF TSgt C-17 Aircraft Maintenance Flying Crew Chief & Flightline Avionics Craftsman Reply ajmiller Member sinceOctober 2003 From: State College PA 344 posts Posted by ajmiller on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 10:17 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68 QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds Question how fast can the Oil move in a pipeline? For what it's worth, being that I read it in the Chicago Tribune, fuel from Texas moves to Chicago via pipeline at 4 MPH. But it just keeps comming out of that pipe, or so I hope. I calculated the speed of water moving through a 5" fire hose at 1000 gallons per minute for a training exercise - it is travelling at about 11 mph. If I remember my area calculations correctly the cross section is a little less than 20 square inches. A 10" pipe would have over three times the cross section. 1 us gallon = 0.133680556 cubic feet according to google. 1000 gallons per minute = 133.68 cubic feet per minute. Assuming circular cross section: area = pi * r^2 where r is pipe radius, or area = (pi * d^2)/4 where d is pipe diameter. For 5 inch diameter hose, area = 19.63 square inches or 0.13635 square feet approximately. Then the average velocity of the flow would be 133.68 cu. ft per min / 0.13635 sq. ft = 980.39 ft per min. Converting to miles per hour: 980.39 ft per min * 60 min per hr / 5280 ft per mile = 11.14 mph. If you double the diameter from d to 2d then area increases by a factor of 4 from the area formula: Area1 = pi * d^2 / 4; Area2 = pi * (2*d)^2 / 4 = pi * d^2 = 4 * Area1. Assuming a constant volume rate of 1000 gal per min, a 10 in diameter hose would give a flow velocity of 2.785 mph which is 11.14 mph / 4. Reply csxengineer98 Member sinceOctober 2002 From: US 2,358 posts Posted by csxengineer98 on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 3:21 PM i forgot to ask...why do you want to know? csx engineer "I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 3:33 PM I do know of one paticular chemical that I have never seen move by truck, and I think evry state's DOT forbids to move by water... Hydrocyanic Acid.... Liquid cyanide...under pressure, it is a liquid, at atmosphere, it is a gas...(yes,, the gas chamber stuff) it is used in making some plactics, and recovering precious metals... I have only seen this stuff move via rail... Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Question how fast can the Oil move in a pipeline?
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by TheS.P.caboose To go a little further on what csxengineer98 was saying, back in 1983 the Southern Pacific started a unit tank train, a contract train for Shell Oil, that is a unit train carrying crewd oil 1,848,600 gallons worth in 78 tankers with a weight of 10,608 tons that moved from Bakersfield to the Shell Oil refinery in the Long Beach area. It would take up a lot of tanker trucks for that move. The Shell crude moved by pipeline before the train started in late 1981. If the oil moved in a pipeline b4 81' why did the SP even get involved??? I don't think a pipeline ever moved oil in this lane.
QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp Hoboes.
QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas I've been out of the LA scene for a few years (disclaimer),but... The only pipeline I know of is the one from Bakersfield(Taft) to Mojave(Fleta). The tank train still runs from Mojave to Dolores. The pipeline just eliminated the run over the hill.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds Question how fast can the Oil move in a pipeline? For what it's worth, being that I read it in the Chicago Tribune, fuel from Texas moves to Chicago via pipeline at 4 MPH. But it just keeps comming out of that pipe, or so I hope. I calculated the speed of water moving through a 5" fire hose at 1000 gallons per minute for a training exercise - it is travelling at about 11 mph. If I remember my area calculations correctly the cross section is a little less than 20 square inches. A 10" pipe would have over three times the cross section. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 9:33 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Conrail7659 Large pieces of dimension limestone, limestone used in building construction (pentagon, all kinds of memorials, etc.) I know use to basically use a all rail route until it got very near the final destination. This is basically due to the fact that it is cost prohibitive to ship very heavy pieces long distance by truck. All kinds of permitting and escorts are needed for very large and heavy loads. Another example is the Boeing aircraft bodies and parts, which travel on the "Boeing Train" from Kansas to Washington State. Washington County Railroad no longer moves stone for Rock of Ages Quarry. But with the war and the increased buisness from that who knows? Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 9:37 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp Hoboes. Nah most of them became hitchikers. But the truth is with Greyhound and go any were for 69 dollers or less with unlimited stops many bo's just ca***here check and take the bus. Reply Edit adrianspeeder Member sinceMarch 2002 From: Harrisburg PA / Dover AFB DE 1,482 posts Posted by adrianspeeder on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 9:50 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman A power company is building a coal fired power plant in Arkansas. A local farmer drives up to the construction superintendent and asks what they're buiding. The super tells him a coal fired power plant. The local tells him if he needs to haul coal he has a dump truck. The super tells him he doesn't understand they are going to use a LOT of coal. The local tells the super in that case, if the company will guarantee him the loads, he'll go buy a second dump truck. True story. Dave H. Ahhh, the powerstroke diesel will handle it.... Adrianspeeder USAF TSgt C-17 Aircraft Maintenance Flying Crew Chief & Flightline Avionics Craftsman Reply ajmiller Member sinceOctober 2003 From: State College PA 344 posts Posted by ajmiller on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 10:17 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68 QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds Question how fast can the Oil move in a pipeline? For what it's worth, being that I read it in the Chicago Tribune, fuel from Texas moves to Chicago via pipeline at 4 MPH. But it just keeps comming out of that pipe, or so I hope. I calculated the speed of water moving through a 5" fire hose at 1000 gallons per minute for a training exercise - it is travelling at about 11 mph. If I remember my area calculations correctly the cross section is a little less than 20 square inches. A 10" pipe would have over three times the cross section. 1 us gallon = 0.133680556 cubic feet according to google. 1000 gallons per minute = 133.68 cubic feet per minute. Assuming circular cross section: area = pi * r^2 where r is pipe radius, or area = (pi * d^2)/4 where d is pipe diameter. For 5 inch diameter hose, area = 19.63 square inches or 0.13635 square feet approximately. Then the average velocity of the flow would be 133.68 cu. ft per min / 0.13635 sq. ft = 980.39 ft per min. Converting to miles per hour: 980.39 ft per min * 60 min per hr / 5280 ft per mile = 11.14 mph. If you double the diameter from d to 2d then area increases by a factor of 4 from the area formula: Area1 = pi * d^2 / 4; Area2 = pi * (2*d)^2 / 4 = pi * d^2 = 4 * Area1. Assuming a constant volume rate of 1000 gal per min, a 10 in diameter hose would give a flow velocity of 2.785 mph which is 11.14 mph / 4. Reply csxengineer98 Member sinceOctober 2002 From: US 2,358 posts Posted by csxengineer98 on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 3:21 PM i forgot to ask...why do you want to know? csx engineer "I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 3:33 PM I do know of one paticular chemical that I have never seen move by truck, and I think evry state's DOT forbids to move by water... Hydrocyanic Acid.... Liquid cyanide...under pressure, it is a liquid, at atmosphere, it is a gas...(yes,, the gas chamber stuff) it is used in making some plactics, and recovering precious metals... I have only seen this stuff move via rail... Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds Question how fast can the Oil move in a pipeline? For what it's worth, being that I read it in the Chicago Tribune, fuel from Texas moves to Chicago via pipeline at 4 MPH. But it just keeps comming out of that pipe, or so I hope.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
QUOTE: Originally posted by Conrail7659 Large pieces of dimension limestone, limestone used in building construction (pentagon, all kinds of memorials, etc.) I know use to basically use a all rail route until it got very near the final destination. This is basically due to the fact that it is cost prohibitive to ship very heavy pieces long distance by truck. All kinds of permitting and escorts are needed for very large and heavy loads. Another example is the Boeing aircraft bodies and parts, which travel on the "Boeing Train" from Kansas to Washington State.
QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman A power company is building a coal fired power plant in Arkansas. A local farmer drives up to the construction superintendent and asks what they're buiding. The super tells him a coal fired power plant. The local tells him if he needs to haul coal he has a dump truck. The super tells him he doesn't understand they are going to use a LOT of coal. The local tells the super in that case, if the company will guarantee him the loads, he'll go buy a second dump truck. True story. Dave H.
USAF TSgt C-17 Aircraft Maintenance Flying Crew Chief & Flightline Avionics Craftsman
QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68 QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds Question how fast can the Oil move in a pipeline? For what it's worth, being that I read it in the Chicago Tribune, fuel from Texas moves to Chicago via pipeline at 4 MPH. But it just keeps comming out of that pipe, or so I hope. I calculated the speed of water moving through a 5" fire hose at 1000 gallons per minute for a training exercise - it is travelling at about 11 mph. If I remember my area calculations correctly the cross section is a little less than 20 square inches. A 10" pipe would have over three times the cross section. 1 us gallon = 0.133680556 cubic feet according to google. 1000 gallons per minute = 133.68 cubic feet per minute. Assuming circular cross section: area = pi * r^2 where r is pipe radius, or area = (pi * d^2)/4 where d is pipe diameter. For 5 inch diameter hose, area = 19.63 square inches or 0.13635 square feet approximately. Then the average velocity of the flow would be 133.68 cu. ft per min / 0.13635 sq. ft = 980.39 ft per min. Converting to miles per hour: 980.39 ft per min * 60 min per hr / 5280 ft per mile = 11.14 mph. If you double the diameter from d to 2d then area increases by a factor of 4 from the area formula: Area1 = pi * d^2 / 4; Area2 = pi * (2*d)^2 / 4 = pi * d^2 = 4 * Area1. Assuming a constant volume rate of 1000 gal per min, a 10 in diameter hose would give a flow velocity of 2.785 mph which is 11.14 mph / 4. Reply csxengineer98 Member sinceOctober 2002 From: US 2,358 posts Posted by csxengineer98 on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 3:21 PM i forgot to ask...why do you want to know? csx engineer "I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 3:33 PM I do know of one paticular chemical that I have never seen move by truck, and I think evry state's DOT forbids to move by water... Hydrocyanic Acid.... Liquid cyanide...under pressure, it is a liquid, at atmosphere, it is a gas...(yes,, the gas chamber stuff) it is used in making some plactics, and recovering precious metals... I have only seen this stuff move via rail... Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds Question how fast can the Oil move in a pipeline? For what it's worth, being that I read it in the Chicago Tribune, fuel from Texas moves to Chicago via pipeline at 4 MPH. But it just keeps comming out of that pipe, or so I hope. I calculated the speed of water moving through a 5" fire hose at 1000 gallons per minute for a training exercise - it is travelling at about 11 mph. If I remember my area calculations correctly the cross section is a little less than 20 square inches. A 10" pipe would have over three times the cross section.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.