Where am I ???

[spbed]

That was exactly the same area my situation took place. I was fearful of going faster as the speed limit was only 70MPH & I was already doing 80 & the train was pulling away so you can at least figure him for 85. Pretty heft speed if you ask me. I have it on a video with me saying I'm doing 80 & he is pulling away from me. It was really great fun. To bad it is was not the autobahn so I could have seen how fast we was really motoring. [:o)]

Well I hope you see good things + some unusal things to make the trip memorable. [:)]

I also sent you a test Email [:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

spbed,

I have a story I wrote around 1992 about a chase I had with a Santa Fe 199 train from needles to Kramer jct. (30mi w of Barstow) a total of about 240 miles, I LOST. I wrote it with the intentions of submitting it to Pacific Railnews or Trains. I never did submit it but I still have it. I'll see if I can find it and post it.

And I just got the green light from my boss for next weekend.[:p][:D][8D][^][^][^][^]

[chad thomas]

spbed,

I have a story I wrote around 1992 about a chase I had with a Santa Fe 199 train from needles to Kramer jct. (30mi w of Barstow) a total of about 240 miles, I LOST. I wrote it with the intentions of submitting it to Pacific Railnews or Trains. I never did submit it but I still have it. I'll see if I can find it and post it.

And I just got the green light from my boss for next weekend.[:p][:D][8D][^][^][^][^]

[spbed]

I was also old school. But by son bought me dig camera & he is setting me a web site so I can post the pix to the web site for all to see. Right now I use it to take pix of my G.children & it is great.

Well I will then I have to go back to the PNW & take you up on that suggestion then. I hear that MSH may be getting ready to pop again. [:)]


On my way back from Needles I tried catching a BNSF WBer & could not until he hit a caution signal & I was doing 80MPH. That one I know was doing more then 80 as he was very slowly pulling away from me until that caution signal. I caught him on the middle track @ Daggett buzzing along as well. [:)][:p]

I'll find out about the GSL when I get there so thanks for your input

Yes I paced several UPRR EBers between Hood River & whatever the next town east of that was. I also got some good shots of them exiting a short tunnel. Their are just so many places & just so little time. [:o)]

Sorry about the delay this weekend but in duty calls duty calls. [:(]

Have a good weekend.

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Spbed,
Interesting you should mention the Pacific Northwest. I lived in Stevenson,Wa. from 1999 till 2003. That's between Multnomah Falls and Hood River, but on the Washington side of the river (on the north side of the Bridge of the Gods). I traveled between the Dalles and Portland/Vancouver on an almost daily basis. If you think following the UP line is cool, You would love the BN side. There are long streaches where SR14 is so close to the mainline you can almost reach out ad touch the train. The only thing seperating the Hwy & tracks is a 2' tall x 1' wide rock wall. And this is 50-60 MPH running. You can't beat that for pacing. I have hundreds of pix but I'm still old school shooting 35mm slides so have no way of posting them.

About the lake/boat. I dont know if how far out you can walk on the west side (causway).
There are spots that are <20' deep in that area. And when I tried to access the east end of the causway I couldn't because it was private property (gov prop I think).

When you get a scanner I advise you to find one that has 100+ channel capacity. That way you can program all the AAR railroad assigned frequencys and shouldn't heve to mess with that again. I also highly recommend getting a magnetic rooftop ant. cut for 160 Mhz , much better reception (they are advertised in the train mags & I think a forum member here sells them also) . I personaly like to use an external speeker in the car. It gives a much better bass rich sound and is louder. Alot easier to hear in a car at speed with the window down.But that's just my personal preferance.

I think my trip is postponed till next weekend. I have to go to a training siminar this weekend. Darn!!![:(]

[8D] [8D] [8D] [8D]

[chad thomas]

Spbed,
Interesting you should mention the Pacific Northwest. I lived in Stevenson,Wa. from 1999 till 2003. That's between Multnomah Falls and Hood River, but on the Washington side of the river (on the north side of the Bridge of the Gods). I traveled between the Dalles and Portland/Vancouver on an almost daily basis. If you think following the UP line is cool, You would love the BN side. There are long streaches where SR14 is so close to the mainline you can almost reach out ad touch the train. The only thing seperating the Hwy & tracks is a 2' tall x 1' wide rock wall. And this is 50-60 MPH running. You can't beat that for pacing. I have hundreds of pix but I'm still old school shooting 35mm slides so have no way of posting them.

About the lake/boat. I dont know if how far out you can walk on the west side (causway).
There are spots that are <20' deep in that area. And when I tried to access the east end of the causway I couldn't because it was private property (gov prop I think).

When you get a scanner I advise you to find one that has 100+ channel capacity. That way you can program all the AAR railroad assigned frequencys and shouldn't heve to mess with that again. I also highly recommend getting a magnetic rooftop ant. cut for 160 Mhz , much better reception (they are advertised in the train mags & I think a forum member here sells them also) . I personaly like to use an external speeker in the car. It gives a much better bass rich sound and is louder. Alot easier to hear in a car at speed with the window down.But that's just my personal preferance.

I think my trip is postponed till next weekend. I have to go to a training siminar this weekend. Darn!!![:(]

[8D] [8D] [8D] [8D]

[spbed]

I'm sorry I left out that last year I did go to the PNW. Much different scenery then Daggett. So. Tacoma has a people bridge over 4 tracks. Good interlocking action but not speed like a EBer on the south track of Daggett whizzing by. Portland has a good place on No. Columbia ave. Their is a tunnel & you can get head on shots of the UPRR exiting or entering the tunnel. It also has 2 "Y's" as it is the a juncture point for 3 lines. It is easily accessable with no homeless. Going east from Portland you can get a shot of the UPRR going over a bridge built in the very early 1900's with the 5th largest waterfall in the world in the background. Further east you can access a passing siding & get good shots also. In Hood River there is a overlook so you can get good shots of the RR with the Columbia river in the backround. Here you can also chase a train as the tracks are right alongside I-84.

As for the scanner I will purchase one again about a week before the May trip. i will give you a heads up when I secure up. Thanks for your help on this matter.


Yes my son gave me a tape of the UPRR turbine locos & I saw pix of both Weber & Echo
canyon's & they are on my list. I will certainly spend time in Ogden as it is where the SF line connects with the overland route.

Well I suggested the boat because I unaware that you can walk out their so I guess the boat idea will not be necessary.

Winslow is way north of El Paso on the BNSF on the way to the Grand Canyon. Pretty long trip from their to El Paso.

I will send you a sample Email just so you have my address

You may want to consider signing on for a free Yahoo account then we can instant message each other when we both around.

I think I answered everything. If I did not please tell me what I missed. If I do not speak to you again today enjoy that RR weekend. [:)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Spbed,

Do you have a scanner right now? If so what mk/mdl ? If not I have some advice.

I have been out to Evanston,Wy a few times. Got to spend 2 weeks exploreing east/west of there. I liked the Weber canyon and Echo areas. I highly recomend hitting Ogden and checking out there museum. They have a turbine,DDA40X, and GP9 on display outside under cover. They also have a couple really cool layouts. I don't know about your plans to go out on the lake. I've swam in it before and it's very shallow. You can walk miles into the lake and still stand up. I don't think I've ever seen a boat,let alone a power boat on the lake. But I could be wrong. No worries though, you can still get shots of the causway. I can't give directions, but you can get fairly close on the west end. I think when I was out there I followed the tracks all the way from Wells,Nv. Make shure you carry survival supply if you venture in the desert. Any way sounds like fun.

I would like to check out the Meadow Valley Wash area myself. I've done Salt Lake to Vegas but had to bypass this spot cause I was running out of time.

The El Paso -Vaughn trip sounds like fun to. I've never been east of El Paso. Always wanted to check out Vaughn, I have set out with the intentions of going there twice. The closest I got was Windslow. Too much to see along the way.

I sometimes wish I had a Radar gun too. The fastest train I ever saw was a helper move. I'd say they were going 90.

My e-mail is now set up, but I don't check it that often. It's [e-mail]

[chad thomas]

Spbed,

Do you have a scanner right now? If so what mk/mdl ? If not I have some advice.

I have been out to Evanston,Wy a few times. Got to spend 2 weeks exploreing east/west of there. I liked the Weber canyon and Echo areas. I highly recomend hitting Ogden and checking out there museum. They have a turbine,DDA40X, and GP9 on display outside under cover. They also have a couple really cool layouts. I don't know about your plans to go out on the lake. I've swam in it before and it's very shallow. You can walk miles into the lake and still stand up. I don't think I've ever seen a boat,let alone a power boat on the lake. But I could be wrong. No worries though, you can still get shots of the causway. I can't give directions, but you can get fairly close on the west end. I think when I was out there I followed the tracks all the way from Wells,Nv. Make shure you carry survival supply if you venture in the desert. Any way sounds like fun.

I would like to check out the Meadow Valley Wash area myself. I've done Salt Lake to Vegas but had to bypass this spot cause I was running out of time.

The El Paso -Vaughn trip sounds like fun to. I've never been east of El Paso. Always wanted to check out Vaughn, I have set out with the intentions of going there twice. The closest I got was Windslow. Too much to see along the way.

I sometimes wish I had a Radar gun too. The fastest train I ever saw was a helper move. I'd say they were going 90.

My e-mail is now set up, but I don't check it that often. It's [e-mail]

[spbed]

i have touble learning how to operate a scanner & finding the right frequency to listen in sorry to say. Maybe if you & I connect in Sept I will purchase another one & you can educate me.

In my May/June trip I will be exploring the UPRR overland route say from Green River WY to Salt Lake City UT. I am hopeful of renting a boat at the great salt lake & get some pixs of trains traversing the causeway on the great salt lake.

In the Sept trip besides Vegas I will come west to Daggett, Cajon pass, Colton & Riverside. On this trip I want to also explore the UPRR east of Vegas.

In Oct I will be exploring the Golden State Route from El Paso to Vaughn NM. Then the BNSF from Belem to Deming then the UPRR sunset route from Deming NM back to El Paso.

2 years ago thanks to I10 I explored the UPRR sunset route as far east as Tucson AZ. I saw the UPRR bullet train hauling real serious a$$ 25 west of Tucson at Marana AZ. That was really a thrill as made it look like the BNSF going east at Daggett on the south trip was actually moving slowly even though it was not. I was I had a radar gun so I would know really how fast the bullet train was going. [:p][:)][:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Spbed,
Interesting. Not much different than my beginnings. I would grab my scanner,camera and california railfan timetable then pick a line out of town and follow it till i felt like turning around. This is how I first came to know the SP sunset, ATSF to needles,UP to Afton canyon & Vegas. I already knew most of the North South lines in california.
In the last 15 Years I've railfanned everything west of the continental divide. But as far as the other side goes I only know what I've read about in the mags or on the forums.

Where are you planning to go on your trips?

[chad thomas]

Spbed,
Interesting. Not much different than my beginnings. I would grab my scanner,camera and california railfan timetable then pick a line out of town and follow it till i felt like turning around. This is how I first came to know the SP sunset, ATSF to needles,UP to Afton canyon & Vegas. I already knew most of the North South lines in california.
In the last 15 Years I've railfanned everything west of the continental divide. But as far as the other side goes I only know what I've read about in the mags or on the forums.

Where are you planning to go on your trips?

[spbed]

Thank you very much for the kudos

I did a lot of biz with the UPRR in my day & they gave me maps of their system. Now that I have all kinds of free time I decided to start exploring for lack of a better word. Some places like the T. Loop & Cajon Pass I was aware of. I knew that the UPRR had trackage rights over the BNSF I actually thought from LAX to Bartsow. With the advent of the internet it became very easy to begin to locate actual places by using Mapquest or Yahoo maps. I picked a city from the UPRR system map & brought it up on Mapquest then just followed the line away from LAX. That is how I found Riverside & the Colton diamond. Info on the C/pass & the T/loop I picked off the internet. I was also familiar with the old ATSF route & knew that they have to move their central Calif traffic thru So. Calif as they have no overland route like the UPRR has. That meant there was somewhere where a awful lot of trains had to go thru. By using the UPRR maps I found the name Daggett as the entry/exit city for the So. Calif UPRR overland route. From there I obtained info on the net & from the info I knew that Daggett was a very hot spot which for sure it is.

Once the UPRR was holding a train with my former companies cargo on it at Yermo. This was way before the net. So I called out to Omaha to find out why & where the heck Yermo was. From that day I made myself a promise to see as much as I can so that I could understand more.

E/coast railroading to me is not as interesting as the L/coast.

I did go to Rochelle/Ft. Madison & Dolton which are in the mid west last Oct. Dolton has many trains but no where the speed that you see at Daggett/Riverside or Colton.

I am going to 4 more key UPRR junctures in May/June this year in WY/UT & ID. The one in WY supposely is a hot as Daggett so that has me real excited.

I will keep in touch & give you a heads up before my Sept trip to the L/coast.

I was in SD last Sept to see my FB team the Jets play the Chargers.

[:D][:D][:D][:)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Yea, let me know when it gets closer to sept.

You shure are knowlegable about this area for a right coaster.

[chad thomas]

Yea, let me know when it gets closer to sept.

You shure are knowlegable about this area for a right coaster.

[spbed]

SE Florida

Maybe we can connect when I come out in Sept.

You want to be between Date & Pleasent Sts. in Riverside

My email address is [e-mail]

[:o)][:)][:D][:p]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Spbed,
Thanks for the advice, I've never railfanned riverside per say, But I have friends in that area and have done inadvertant railfanning while visiting them. It's just too close to "better" spots for me.

Where do you live if you don't mind my asking?

[chad thomas]

Spbed,
Thanks for the advice, I've never railfanned riverside per say, But I have friends in that area and have done inadvertant railfanning while visiting them. It's just too close to "better" spots for me.

Where do you live if you don't mind my asking?

[spbed]

Wow you soooooooooooooo lucky to live where you do. I will think about you this weekend with envy. If you never have been their also try Riverside just a few miles more west from the Colton diamond. You will get very good shots of trains moving from track to track their. It is the entry/exit point for the UPRR to/from the BNSF. You can also get very good head on shots. It is very accessable & viewable. The action is about 1/4 down from the train station. [:)][:)][:)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

All this talk about West Colton/Cajon/Dagget has got me set on taking a trip up there this weekend. I used to hit one or all of these places at least once a month. One time in between jobs I even camped at Summit for 3 weeks. But after I left the area in 99', I have only managed to get there once a year or so. I missed hanging out around there. But now that I'm back in so. Cal. I feel I am home again.

[chad thomas]

All this talk about West Colton/Cajon/Dagget has got me set on taking a trip up there this weekend. I used to hit one or all of these places at least once a month. One time in between jobs I even camped at Summit for 3 weeks. But after I left the area in 99', I have only managed to get there once a year or so. I missed hanging out around there. But now that I'm back in so. Cal. I feel I am home again.

[spbed]

Well I was only 2' or 3' ft from the tracks & maybe 6' from the diamond itself. I was on the SW side facing the overpass. My car was about 6' from the track. Being that close I see why the engineer reported me especially reading in another thread about the tie downs flapping in the wind & almost hitting another rail fan. I got not a local cop or CHIP in my case it was a BNSF ***. Delta has just announce special fares to Vegas from where I live so it looks like I will again make the Daggett/Cajon Pass/Colton/Riverside tour again some time in early Sept. Certainly that news cheered me up as I am addicted to the action you see at those places. [:o)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

spbed,
I've never had trouble with the law dogs at colton myself. I have had several confrontations with local vagrants there, but only at night.

However I had something happen to me at the Pepper st. overpass. My father and I were parked on the south east shoulder. This cop drove past us and back and forth several times. Then he parked diagonaly across from us and sat there for several minuets. Then he drove back up the road, turned around and pulled up behind us. He just sat there for several more minuets. Then he got out and walked up to our car and asked us if we had seen anything suspicious. My first thought was to say YEA YOU, but I didn't. Instead I said" Yea, the last train through here had a Kansas City Southern unit in the lead, I don't know whats going on here". He just stared at me with a blank look on his face for about 10 seconds, then without saying a thing he walked back to his car and left. As soon as he was out of ear shot we both just busted up laughing. I still start laughing just thinking about it.
Thats the only time I've ever even talked to a cop in that area, and I've done a lot of snooping around in that area.

Oh, and one time I had a military M.P. stop me and tell me to put my camera gear away untill after a military train passed. He was very courteous though, and naturally I complyed.

[spbed]

Yes I believe you are referring to the "homeless" that are along the UPRR tracks on the west side of the diamond. I been there maybe 7 or 8 days so far & they have not bother me. OTH it is wonderful to vae the mickey Ds so close to the diamond. [:)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas
asked us if we had seen anything suspicious. <snip> " Yea, the last train through here had a Kansas City Southern unit in the lead, I don't know whats going on here".

[(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] You get the Snappy Comeback award for that one.

I've been to Colton now and then; always kept an eye out for the locals (residents, not trains). Not the greatest area safety-wise, but it's "ok"

[MP57313]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas
asked us if we had seen anything suspicious. <snip> " Yea, the last train through here had a Kansas City Southern unit in the lead, I don't know whats going on here".

[(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] You get the Snappy Comeback award for that one.

I've been to Colton now and then; always kept an eye out for the locals (residents, not trains). Not the greatest area safety-wise, but it's "ok"

[chad thomas]

spbed,
I've never had trouble with the law dogs at colton myself. I have had several confrontations with local vagrants there, but only at night.

However I had something happen to me at the Pepper st. overpass. My father and I were parked on the south east shoulder. This cop drove past us and back and forth several times. Then he parked diagonaly across from us and sat there for several minuets. Then he drove back up the road, turned around and pulled up behind us. He just sat there for several more minuets. Then he got out and walked up to our car and asked us if we had seen anything suspicious. My first thought was to say YEA YOU, but I didn't. Instead I said" Yea, the last train through here had a Kansas City Southern unit in the lead, I don't know whats going on here". He just stared at me with a blank look on his face for about 10 seconds, then without saying a thing he walked back to his car and left. As soon as he was out of ear shot we both just busted up laughing. I still start laughing just thinking about it.
Thats the only time I've ever even talked to a cop in that area, and I've done a lot of snooping around in that area.

Oh, and one time I had a military M.P. stop me and tell me to put my camera gear away untill after a military train passed. He was very courteous though, and naturally I complyed.

[spbed]

Well I'm sure you heard of golf or football widows. If I lived in So. California my wife would be a railroad widow. Ever so often the idea of buying one of the houses across Rt 66 at Daggett pops up in my head so that I could watch them day after day. However, OTH my wife has warned me that if I do that it will be grounds for divorce.. I was fearful of using the overpass for both safety & tresspassing issues at Colton. I got reported their because I was to close to the tracks with both myself & my car. I was taking headon shots of a WB BNSFer hitting the diamond & the engineer must have have radio me in. [:)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

The Colton crossing is a dynamite place for shear volume but I've had problems there before (at night). I lived on 5th st. in San Bernadino for a few months in 97' and spent most of my railfanning time at the Pepper st. overpass (when I wasn't able to do Cajon or Beaumont hill). I had not lived in southern California science 98', but I just moved to San Diego a couple months back. I plan on taking a trip up to Cajon this weekend if my boss will let me. It's been almost two years science the last time I was at Cajon, and I'm looking forward to it. Mabee I'll even run up to Barstow/Dagget for a while.

[chad thomas]

The Colton crossing is a dynamite place for shear volume but I've had problems there before (at night). I lived on 5th st. in San Bernadino for a few months in 97' and spent most of my railfanning time at the Pepper st. overpass (when I wasn't able to do Cajon or Beaumont hill). I had not lived in southern California science 98', but I just moved to San Diego a couple months back. I plan on taking a trip up to Cajon this weekend if my boss will let me. It's been almost two years science the last time I was at Cajon, and I'm looking forward to it. Mabee I'll even run up to Barstow/Dagget for a while.

[spbed]

Well 1st sorry to have to correct you. But I to am very familiar with Daggett & knew for sure the UPRR enters & exits the BNSF their. Yes I also know Daggett/Yermo road with the signal bridge on the east side of the road. You know if you go north on Daggett/Yermo road then turn east where the intersection is where Peggy Sues is then follow that road about 2 miles then make a right before the overpass the UPRR tracks come alongside the road & if you can continue away from Yermo you can see UPRR hauling some serious a$$. If you go to Mineola Rd there is a set of Xovers their if you like switching action.

While all 3 times I have been there the best was the morning when there was a UPRR military train entering the north track. Amtrak then came along occupying the middle track. On the south track was a BNSF also hauling a$$ going EB. It was for a guy from the E/coast a very thrilling experience.

If you have not been to Colton yet I suggest you give it a try. There is lots of action as it is where the UPRR sunset route crosses the BNSF Cajon route & since I like the UPRR you see more UPRR traffic their then at Daggett. Last year when I was their they were holding a UPRR destined for Daggett on the Cajon line while they allowed a WB UPRR offf the Sunset route to cross the diamond ahead of the UPRR on the Cajon route. That was also very exciting.

Some time in Sept if all goes well & we secure el cheapo airfare I will be back again for my 4th year in a row,

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Your right. Dagget is where the UP branches off. But science the split is only 3 miles from the edge of Barstow and Dagget is just a speck of a town on the outskirts, Well......

In the future I'll try to be more accurate.

Dagget is one of my all time favorite spots to railfan. I have over a thousand pictures taken there, dating back to 1990. I used to spend entire weekends in a lounge chair about 150 yards west of the Dagget/Yermo road x-ing, with my trusted cooler right by my side.[:D]

[chad thomas]

Your right. Dagget is where the UP branches off. But science the split is only 3 miles from the edge of Barstow and Dagget is just a speck of a town on the outskirts, Well......

In the future I'll try to be more accurate.

Dagget is one of my all time favorite spots to railfan. I have over a thousand pictures taken there, dating back to 1990. I used to spend entire weekends in a lounge chair about 150 yards west of the Dagget/Yermo road x-ing, with my trusted cooler right by my side.[:D]

[spbed]

Did some googling & found this map where you can see that the UPRR enters & exits the BNSF at Daggett not Barstow[:o)]

http://www.trainweb.org/brettrw/maps/cimasub/cimasubmap.html

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

I am in a railroad town.

The first tracks here were laid by a railroad that was headquartered at one Market st.

Mainlines radiate out from here in four directions, Three of which lead to famous grades.

This place is named after a past railroad president.

There is a big yard here.

Most trains change crews here, but not all do.

There is a beautifully restored depot here.

Where am I ???[8D]

(I think I'm watching too much jeapordy lately)

[spbed]

Not being picky but actually the UPRR (Cima sub) branches off the BNSF at Dagget (7/8 miles east of Bartsow) not at Barstow. I have been at that juncture (Dagget) 3 years running so I am real sure of that fact. [:o)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Sorry I took so long my computer crashed.

MP57313 is the winner !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SP built the first line through Barstow to Needles to intercept the A&P a SF predecesser.
They later traded it to ATSF for a line to Mexico.

The 4 routes are:

BNSF to mojave-Bakersfield.........Tehachappi
BNSF / UP to San Bernadino...........Cajon
BNSF to Needles (transcon)
UP to Las Vegas-Salt Lake City.......Cima Hill

Barstow was named after William Barstow Strong

Good job.

Your next............[^]

[MP57313]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas
MP57313 is the winner !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good job.

Your next............[^]

Thanks; I'll start a new thread (when I think of a place). MP

[Anonymous]

A question I used to pose for railfans was "Name a railroad that has the same name as an airport? Can't use that question now anymore.

[chad thomas]

Sorry I took so long my computer crashed.

MP57313 is the winner !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SP built the first line through Barstow to Needles to intercept the A&P a SF predecesser.
They later traded it to ATSF for a line to Mexico.

The 4 routes are:

BNSF to mojave-Bakersfield.........Tehachappi
BNSF / UP to San Bernadino...........Cajon
BNSF to Needles (transcon)
UP to Las Vegas-Salt Lake City.......Cima Hill

Barstow was named after William Barstow Strong

Good job.

Your next............[^]

[TheS.P.caboose]

Forget about San Francisco.

The only other place that may be close to there might be Oakland.

[TheS.P.caboose]

San Francisco?