Anybody Know Who Controls The Rochelle Interlocking?

[spbed]

It appears whenever there is a conflict at the diamond between BNSF & the UPRR the BNSF seems to always gets the green. This AM a UPRR reached the signal bridge going E/B & was stopped & waited about 10 minutes until a Chicago bound BNSF went by[?]

[eolafan]

I believe I am correct in saying that the UP Omaha dispatcher regulated the diamonds but the age old agreement that dates back to the C&NW/CB&Q days is that the train which has the green signal first has rights over the other which does not. Anyone out there with different information, please correct me.

[richardy]

Most major interlockings in the west today are automatic, first train into the approach circuit has the interlocking (Note: If a CTC interlocking then first train into the approach circuit with a clear signal through the interlocking plant). Generally the dispatcher does not have direct control of the interlocking although there may be some exceptions. The problem is approach circuit length can vary from a mile or so to several miles. We have one automatic CTC interlocking with BNSF and UP, three of the approach circuits are one to two miles and the other is over eight miles. If a UP train enters that eight mile circuit and a BNSF train enters one of the circuits 30 seconds later then the BNSF is going to come to a stop at the interlocking for some time.

I don't know for sure that is the situation at Rochelle but that is my first guess, the BNSF may have a long approach circuit.

Richard

[spbed]

Sorry must disagree as this AM the UPRR train hit the red at the signal bridge & it was close to 5 minutes before the BNSF Chicago bound trip popped its head around the corner at the end of the webcam. That would mean that the UPRR hit the interlocking automatic signals way before the BNSF did but it was the BNSF that got the preference. [:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by richardy

Most major interlockings in the west today are automatic, first train into the approach circuit has the interlocking (Note: If a CTC interlocking then first train into the approach circuit with a clear signal through the interlocking plant). Generally the dispatcher does not have direct control of the interlocking although there may be some exceptions. The problem is approach circuit length can vary from a mile or so to several miles. We have one automatic CTC interlocking with BNSF and UP, three of the approach circuits are one to two miles and the other is over eight miles. If a UP train enters that eight mile circuit and a BNSF train enters one of the circuits 30 seconds later then the BNSF is going to come to a stop at the interlocking for some time.

I don't know for sure that is the situation at Rochelle but that is my first guess, the BNSF may have a long approach circuit.

Richard

[spbed]

Sorry that does not fly either. If Omaha is the controlling factor then for sure since the UPRR was there way before the BNSF today they would have gotten the green & the BNSF would have gotten the red. I have seen it several times @ Daggett where the UPRR merges onto the BNSF tracks the UPRRs are held & there is not a BNSF train in sight in either direction. If you have not been there at Daggett you can see a long, long way. I take Binocs so I can see even further then with the naked eye. Once I remember without reviewing my video the UPRR was held for close to 45 minutes & I think one BNSF train went by in that whole time period. [:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

I believe I am correct in saying that the UP Omaha dispatcher regulated the diamonds but the age old agreement that dates back to the C&NW/CB&Q days is that the train which has the green signal first has rights over the other which does not. Anyone out there with different information, please correct me.

[eolafan]

Ok, you asked a question, and some of us tried to answer it, not you don't want to take what we offered...perhaps you should call one of the railroads and ask them yourself.

[spbed]

Well maybe their is somebody out their that will chime in who knows more then us. My feeling is that since the BNSF always gets preference they are controlling the crossing since that is the way RRs supposely have been doing it since this all began many years ago always let your own RR go 1st. You can really see examples of that at Daggett CA where the UPRR merges onto the BNSF tracks & the BNSF is controlling the interlocking. [:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

Ok, you asked a question, and some of us tried to answer it, not you don't want to take what we offered...perhaps you should call one of the railroads and ask them yourself.

[Anonymous]

I believe, in this case, BNSF owns the crossing, as the UP line was buil across their rails, BNSF will get priority on crossing the diamond.

[CShaveRR]

We've been through all of this before...

It's an automatic interlocking--whoever hits the approach circuit first gets the green. Dispatchers are aware of, but have no control over, movements on the conflicting routes.

I think you'll find that, since UP has the greater volume of traffic across the diamond, that BNSF does its share of waiting for UP movements (many of which are slower, due to the presence of Global 3 nearby).

I think you'll also find that the CNW route through here was well ahead of the CB&O, chronologically.

Ten minutes is nothing, if the train is delayed within the approach circuits. There are release boxes that crew members may operate after a certain amount of time (I think it's actually ten minutes now) if they encounter a stop signal at the crossing and no conflicting movement is apparent.

[spbed]

Thanks for the explaination which I greatly appreciate. What I saw this AM then has me very confused as for the sure the UPRR train had hit "the automatic interlocking" way before the BNSF so using that theroy should have had the green. But it was the BNSF that got the green & the UPRR that was stopped. I was at Rochelle & also know where the signal bridges are for the BNSF & that is why I am confused. Also Global-3 is west of the diamond on the north side as you look at the webcam. In the case I saw today the UPRR was EB as was the BNSF so Global 3 would not have been a factor in any case. Oh well I will chalk it up to one of lifes mysteries.

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

We've been through all of this before...

It's an automatic interlocking--whoever hits the approach circuit first gets the green. Dispatchers are aware of, but have no control over, movements on the conflicting routes.

I think you'll find that, since UP has the greater volume of traffic across the diamond, that BNSF does its share of waiting for UP movements (many of which are slower, due to the presence of Global 3 nearby).

I think you'll also find that the CNW route through here was well ahead of the CB&O, chronologically.

Ten minutes is nothing, if the train is delayed within the approach circuits. There are release boxes that crew members may operate after a certain amount of time (I think it's actually ten minutes now) if they encounter a stop signal at the crossing and no conflicting movement is apparent.

[eolafan]

To be perfectly honest with you all, I really DON'T CARE who controls the interlocking as long as things remain safe and there continue to be LOTS OF TRAINS to watch when we are all in Rochelle.

[spbed]

It was just my curious nature getting the best of me. If Trains Mag is correct there will be soon be even more UPRR trains as UPRR is building a connector from the BNSF to the UPRR at Edelstein so that the UPRR trains off the Golden State route will also be able to access this former CNW line. [:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

To be perfectly honest with you all, I really DON'T CARE who controls the interlocking as long as things remain safe and there continue to be LOTS OF TRAINS to watch when we are all in Rochelle.

[Anonymous]

I remember reading (maybe in Trains?) the diamond was first come first serve. Then again last summer I also saw a west bound UP stopped next to the viewing platform for a solid 10 minutes only to let a east bound BNSF cross the diamond. My kids loved it and the UP did a great job of waving, and waving and waving back to my kids for the full 10 minutes....

[tree68]

Without knowing how far out the approach signals "capture" the crossing, it's hard to say. Even though there may not be a train in sight, it may be in the approach circuit, thus owns the crossing. I've noticed in looking at pictures and aerial views of the crossing that the BNSF signals are further out than the UP signals.

There have been discussions here before about UP supposedly "holding" the crossing by slowing a train until a counterpart on the other track can capture it. That's not to say that it doesn't go both ways...

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

Thanks for the explaination which I greatly appreciate. What I saw this AM then has me very confused as for the sure the UPRR train had hit "the automatic interlocking" way before the BNSF so using that theroy should have had the green. But it was the BNSF that got the green & the UPRR that was stopped. I was at Rochelle & also know where the signal bridges are for the BNSF & that is why I am confused. Also Global-3 is west of the diamond on the north side as you look at the webcam. In the case I saw today the UPRR was EB as was the BNSF so Global 3 would not have been a factor in any case. Oh well I will chalk it up to one of lifes mysteries.

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

We've been through all of this before...

It's an automatic interlocking--whoever hits the approach circuit first gets the green. Dispatchers are aware of, but have no control over, movements on the conflicting routes.

I think you'll find that, since UP has the greater volume of traffic across the diamond, that BNSF does its share of waiting for UP movements (many of which are slower, due to the presence of Global 3 nearby).

I think you'll also find that the CNW route through here was well ahead of the CB&O, chronologically.

Ten minutes is nothing, if the train is delayed within the approach circuits. There are release boxes that crew members may operate after a certain amount of time (I think it's actually ten minutes now) if they encounter a stop signal at the crossing and no conflicting movement is apparent.

It's no mystery, it's all about who hits the approach circuit first, it has nothing to do with the interlocking signal bridge. As CShaveRR said if the BNSF train was delayed in the approach circuit and already had the interlocking the UP train would have to stop. The BNSF train could have been delayed (or moving very slow) out of sight of the camera and the Rochelle platform site because the approach circuit extends well beyond your field of view. The approach circuit is usually more than a mile to several miles long and would be here to keep the trains at speed through the interlocking.

[Anonymous]

It sure seems like the BNSF hauls butt across the diamond in both directions while the UP just pokes along. What a great place! It's worth a trip all the way from Northern NY to see it live and in person Larry. The place is crawling with trains and train geeks willing to talk trains all day long. Go when its warm and plan on staying all day.

[CShaveRR]

spbed: The UP employee who responded to your question is well aware of where Global 3 is in relation to the diamond, and knows how automated interlockings work. You were looking for answers, you got them. Without a scanner, you haven't a clue as to what was really going on. With a scanner, I'm still not sure you'd get it.

My apologies to other forum buddies for being a little hot under the collar--now back to my usual mild-mannered self, I hope.

[spbed]

Yes the UPRR tracks are actually making a large left hand curve & on both sides of the signal bridges on the UPRR there is a grade crossing. On BNSF trains going towards Chicago past the webcam their is also a grade crossing. [:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GPZsubdivision

It sure seems like the BNSF hauls butt across the diamond in both directions while the UP just pokes along. What a great place! It's worth a trip all the way from Northern NY to see it live and in person Larry. The place is crawling with trains and train geeks willing to talk trains all day long. Go when its warm and plan on staying all day.

[spbed]

I went from Florida to see Rochelle as well as Ft. Madison & Dolton (South Chicago) [:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GPZsubdivision

It sure seems like the BNSF hauls butt across the diamond in both directions while the UP just pokes along. What a great place! It's worth a trip all the way from Northern NY to see it live and in person Larry. The place is crawling with trains and train geeks willing to talk trains all day long. Go when its warm and plan on staying all day.

[spbed]

OK that makes good sense to me. Thanks for explaining what probably occurred yesterday. [:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by richardy

QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

Thanks for the explaination which I greatly appreciate. What I saw this AM then has me very confused as for the sure the UPRR train had hit "the automatic interlocking" way before the BNSF so using that theroy should have had the green. But it was the BNSF that got the green & the UPRR that was stopped. I was at Rochelle & also know where the signal bridges are for the BNSF & that is why I am confused. Also Global-3 is west of the diamond on the north side as you look at the webcam. In the case I saw today the UPRR was EB as was the BNSF so Global 3 would not have been a factor in any case. Oh well I will chalk it up to one of lifes mysteries.

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

We've been through all of this before...

It's an automatic interlocking--whoever hits the approach circuit first gets the green. Dispatchers are aware of, but have no control over, movements on the conflicting routes.

I think you'll find that, since UP has the greater volume of traffic across the diamond, that BNSF does its share of waiting for UP movements (many of which are slower, due to the presence of Global 3 nearby).

I think you'll also find that the CNW route through here was well ahead of the CB&O, chronologically.

Ten minutes is nothing, if the train is delayed within the approach circuits. There are release boxes that crew members may operate after a certain amount of time (I think it's actually ten minutes now) if they encounter a stop signal at the crossing and no conflicting movement is apparent.

It's no mystery, it's all about who hits the approach circuit first, it has nothing to do with the interlocking signal bridge. As CShaveRR said if the BNSF train was delayed in the approach circuit and already had the interlocking the UP train would have to stop. The BNSF train could have been delayed (or moving very slow) out of sight of the camera and the Rochelle platform site because the approach circuit extends well beyond your field of view. The approach circuit is usually more than a mile to several miles long and would be here to keep the trains at speed through the interlocking.

[spbed]

OK sorry if I upset anybody. [:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

spbed: The UP employee who responded to your question is well aware of where Global 3 is in relation to the diamond, and knows how automated interlockings work. You were looking for answers, you got them. Without a scanner, you haven't a clue as to what was really going on. With a scanner, I'm still not sure you'd get it.

My apologies to other forum buddies for being a little hot under the collar--now back to my usual mild-mannered self, I hope.

[Gluefinger]

Umm......are there enough posts in this thread?

[cnw4001]

One final bit. One of the messages cited the release box, I was told by the folks at Rochelle that in the rare event of a "tie" then that box can also be used to get the light for the first crew which operates the reset.

[dehusman]

CNW4001 : NOOOOO.

The release box does not resolve a tie. There is no tie. Its either one or the other is first. The release box is only used if the signal system will not clear a route for a train. It basically makes sure the signals are at stop for the other route and give the instructions on how to flag through the interlocking.

Dave H.

[cnw4001]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

CNW4001 : NOOOOO.

The release box does not resolve a tie. There is no tie. Its either one or the other is first. The release box is only used if the signal system will not clear a route for a train. It basically makes sure the signals are at stop for the other route and give the instructions on how to flag through the interlocking.

Dave H.

Ok,

That's why I noted in my post that I was told the information. I agree the probability of two trains hitting the circuit at exactly the same time are slim to nil.

Dale

[spbed]

Thanks for all the input.