The most successful steam locomotive ever built for the USA (or USA and Canada)

[daveklepper]

I do admire the SP Daylight engines, in my book only second to N&W J's as the best all around streamlined or semi-streamlined 4-8-4. There were a lot more K4's though, and it was around many more years, and even more so for the USRA Mikado. Certainly the Daylight Northerns were "better" engines but that did not make them more successful. They were successful, though, that is for sure. We are talking only about winners among all these locomotives.

[Anonymous]

The Southern Pacific's daylight number 4449?? this train is still around and greatly admired throughout its long life.

[Teditor]

USRA Mikado, why we even have them here in Oz, NSWGR's 59 class as well as Queensland Railways AC16 on 3'6" gauge with one still active, the A of course standing for American, and I have about seven on my N scale model railroad, c'mon, that's got to make them a winner!.

[daveklepper]

Sorry about my errors my Pennsy memories. But I have to conced that the K4 is overshaddowed by the USRA light 2-8-2, and many of them did last almost up to the end of steam. I also remember the K4's runnning on the New York and Long Branch, since I spent the summer of 1951 as an Army Oficer Cadet at Fort Monmouth and my parents were still living in Manhattan and we were a car-less (car-free?) family. And yes, the Baldwin diesels did require lengthening the schedules. Incidentally, the CRRofNJ also used Baldwins on the line as the first diesels that replaced the Camelback 4-6-0's which lasted on the Jersey shore until the end of CRRofNJ steam, about 1951. So from 1951 to 1957 we had steam on the Penn Station trains, with a switch to GG-1's at South Ambory, and diesels, first Baldwins, then I think it was Alco RS-2's or RS-3's on the CNJ. Then we had a Baldwin diesel return after 1957, but as soon as the Pennsy began cutting through trains to the West, EMD E-units gradually took over. I spent some time again at both Ford Dix and at Fort Monmouth in September and October 1954 before getting my permanent transfer to Fort Bragg and the oppotunity to reconnect with my old friend the Atlantic Coast Line dining car steward, Jim Masters. After the Pennsy dieselized the NY&LB, the Electric Railroaders Association ran an excellent fan trip using a K-4, starting at Newark and running over the NY&LB to Bay Head Junction, then back to Sea Girt, and over the Monmouth Secondary track to Monmouth Junction on the main line, then back and an attempt to go over the Camden and Amboy down to Camden, but our way was blocked by a dead K4 just sitting cold on the tracks. (This is now New Jersey Transit's "River Line" diesel light rail shared with CSX freight.), so it was back up to South Amboy and a GG1 to Newark. I had ridden the Monmouth Secondary once previously on a pass from Fort Monmouth to go to Princeton University to take an academic test for my MIT studies. I expected the doodlebug and trailer to show up at Little Silver Station, but instead I had the rare pleasure of riding behind an E-6 with shorty combine and coach on the regularly sheduled Red Bank - Trenton train.

Still, you are right. The USRA light Mikado was it. I have to concede. That even the PRR had some is quite a tribute to that design. The K-4 may have run just as long or longer but the Mikado was built over a longer period. I think that is the real test, that one locomotive design was built all the way from about 1919 to 1940. I'm convinced.

Still it is pretty terrific for the K4 to have matched with the much later design J3-A and still do the job. And the K4 did not use a booster, as most NYC power did.

[jimrice4449]

Hey guys, let's get off the main and check out what goes on in yard limits. The USRA
0-8-0 switcher and copies thereof was hands down the most succesful engine design ever. The NYC alone had 475 of the squat little beauties and the last steam locomotive built for common carrier service in the USA rolled out of N&W's Roanaoke shop looking pretty much like the 1918 original. It (or copies of the design) was used by 52 RR's and it was the mainstay heavy switcher for most.

[M636C]

The USRA Light Mikado must be in there simply because it operated on so many roads and was bought over such a long period. Regardless of the actual profit and loss figures, it must have been thought enough of to have been purchased new from 1918 until the 1940s by a large number of roads.

Peter

[Anonymous]

For freight locomotives, the criterion should be: the most Gross Ton Miles per Train Hour per Dollar. The dollar figure would include first cost of the locomotive; maintenance cost per thousand gross ton miles; fuel and water costs per thousand gross ton miles; crew cost (crews are paid on the basis of weight on drivers); and any engineering costs (track and structure maintenances) necessitated by operation of the locomotive in question (this takes into consideration such factors as axle loadings and clearance problems).

Any such discussion that doesn't include all these factors is pretty much meaningless.

- Old Timer

[tatans]

"Successful" a pretty broad statement, efficiency? fuel economy?speed? good looks? power ratio? cost? maintenance? or does it happen to be your favourite engine?? Maybe some of the brand new Chinese locos (there are some in the U.S.) might qualify. Tough question !

[tree68]

My first thought was the 4-4-0, and I'm sticking with it. Remember that NYC 999 was a 4-4-0. They were an all-around engine, hauling everything in their heyday.

This is an incredibly difficult question, because the most successful engines didn't usually live a life of flash and dash. They did the work they were designed to do, and did it well. Some of the best known locomotives were relative failures.

[feltonhill]

The PRR L1 2-8-2 (not the very few L2's, I believe they were USRA) had identical boilers to the K4. Lots of common parts and economes of scale between them. The I1 2-10-0 (not I5, no such animal on PRR) had a similar but not identical boiler - same grate area (70 SF), but larger diameter.

BTW, I believe the last general class of locos running in France were the 141R's, 2-8-2's in our ID system. There are several preserved and operating on fantrips, so I'm not so sure the French want to forget about them.

[Anonymous]

well the most succesful is actually the good old 4-4-0, every line ran them from 1860's and all the way to the end of steam, that's a darn good record for succesful to me.

Second to that would the the 4-8-4 series, Northerns, GS, whatever you want to call it, it was the next most successful line of locomotives. Agin here, almost every rail lin ehad them and used the as primaries in some fashion.

[passengerfan]

For Canadian National it was probably their Northerns they built and operated so many. For the CPR it was probably Hudson in Passenger Service and the Mikes for Freight service.
South of the border the GN P-2 Mountains were some of the finest passenger units in the west. But probably overall it was the Northerns operated by so many railroads in the U.S. that would have to be deemed the most sucessful.

[espeefoamer]

I agree with the K4. It was used in freight,as well as passenger service, and lasted until the very end of steam.At the end K4s were used in commuter service on the New York & Long Branch.When they were replaced with diesels(Baldwin Passenger 2000HP Sharks)PRR had to lengthen the schedules[:0]!

[daveklepper]

The Pennsy's L-2 Mikado was a very useful locomotive, but the I-5 2-10-0 (I think it used the same boiler) outlasted it in coal train service and I think was with the K-4 as the last Pennsy steamers.

[CopCarSS]

That's one of the hardest questions I've heard in awhile. Strong arguments could be made for anything on the N&W, since they really made competitve, efficient steam locomotives run into the 1960's.

Or, how about the Shay locomotive that ran on logging railroads with some of the worst trackage imaginable, and receiving probably not the best maintenance. And yet, they managed to get the job done, and quite well, I might add.

What about just about any Mikado on any rail line? Never really admired like many other configurations, they were quite effective at what they did. In fact, if I could pick only one "successful" steam locomotive, I would go with the K-36 class Narrow Gauge Mikado's on the D&RGW. They conquered tough grades, in tough conditions, with tough weather, carrying heavy loads. And yet, they continue to survive (with some excellent TLC) on the tourist lines here in Colorado. Successful locomotives? You betcha! [^]

Chris May
Denver, CO

[daveklepper]

Notice the limitation, otherwise we would have to contend with that War Department 2-8-0 that was built both for WWI and WWII or the 2-10-0 that rebuilt most Western European railroads after WWII and were the last steam engines running in France (probably something the French would rather forget!)

And I don;t mean the fastes, the best looking, the most powerful, or whatever, just the most successful.

I would nominate the Pennsy (and LIRR and PRSSL) K-4.