Originally posted by adrianspeeder [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, May 1, 2005 9:47 PM ....It simply should not be there. It's against the law to do so. Quentin Reply adrianspeeder Member sinceMarch 2002 From: Harrisburg PA / Dover AFB DE 1,482 posts Posted by adrianspeeder on Sunday, May 1, 2005 7:12 PM Adrianspeeder USAF TSgt C-17 Aircraft Maintenance Flying Crew Chief & Flightline Avionics Craftsman Reply CANADIANPACIFIC2816 Member sinceMarch 2005 From: SIOUX FALLS, SOUTH DAKOTA 2,483 posts Posted by CANADIANPACIFIC2816 on Friday, March 25, 2005 7:06 PM Graffiti is vandalism, pure and simple. The MORONS who engage in this kind of behavior never seem to stop and think about a couple things. First, more often than not the car they are defacing with spray paint is privately owned and the owners of such cars do not like having their property vandalized. Secondly, these MORONS will climb all over any given car, ignoring the possibility that they might fall and end up with severe injuries............and if that happens, guess what? They turn around and sue the railroad! It's not unreasonable to think that an idiotic kid could back away from his "artistic" creation and into the path of an approaching train. If a brainless moron is caught tagging a car, he should be made to pay the cost of having the entire car repainted, which is about $12,000.00. But sadly, I suspect that anything like this rarely happens. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 12:36 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by southern lady How do you feel about GRAFFITI on trains? If an artist painted the most beautiful picture in the world on a piece of railroad equipment or anything else and did not have permission to do so, that's vandelism. railwayray love that BNSF Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 2:51 PM I knew sooner or later someone was going to tell cops to hunt down graffitti "artists" and hang em high. Given the unusual amount of hostility y'all seem to exhibit towards cops doing their jobs in and around railroad property (someone said "it's private property and you have no right to be there" in another thread) it's a clear case of having your cake and eating it, too. Let's just assume for a moment that I get a call here in my patch of paradise for a tagger. No problem, I'll respond... it's my job. The first question I'm going to ask is "Are you going to prosecute?". (If I didn't see it, I can't make an arrest.) If the answer is "Yes!" I'll be requiring some identification for my report. Seeing as how the railroad folks here are a little leery about providing ID's to cops... I have a funny feeling my report is going to be file 13'd. Now you've wasted MY time and yours. If you are a private citizen (aka a railfan) reporting the vandalism, the same will apply. Comment was made that gang bangers don't tag railcars. They do. I have seen gang signatures from out west running around here in the east. A gang banger who can tag a car has just extended his gang territory far beyond the borders of his turf. Just for a moment, let's assume I actually catch these "artists" in the act. Their parents will ask the same questions you folks ask when a cop "hassles" you, which is: "Don't you have drug dealers to catch?" Given the numerous protections a kinder and more sensitive society has given to "juvenile offenders" most of the punishments you folks mention are inappropriate and illegal. I am fairly curious though... if, as someone has said, a car carrier has been left standing in one place long enough for an "artist" to cover the car to such an extent that "there was no metal left", what does that say about the railroad handling that car? Sounds like it was sitting somewhere for a while, unattended and unwatched. Erik Time to catch a drug dealer or a bank robber Reply Edit oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 10:33 AM I don't like it. What I would like to see is the RRs actually painting some real brand identity on the frt cars and keeping a good coat of paint on them. NS's latest gen svc box cars have an NS init and number on them, no logo! All those incentive per diem box cars from the 70s still have their original paint even throgh they are have been restencilled as ownership has changed. They look AWFUL w/o graffiti. Remember when RRs put slogans on box frt cars? Why shouldn't NS's say "The thoroughbred of transportation" somewhere on'em? Or, if you have a pool of cars in dedicated service for Ford, let's say. Then put the Ford logo on them, too. It would give the general public something to think about when they're stuck at the crossing -- and maybe it wouldn't all be negative. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply pat390 Member sinceAugust 2004 From: Valparaiso, IN 113 posts Posted by pat390 on Monday, March 7, 2005 8:51 PM I HATE it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 7, 2005 8:25 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer I don't like graffiti on trains,even when the railroads do it. There is one railroad(which shall remain unnamed,)that spraypaints its yellow graffiti on the cabs of gray locos,and even renumbers the engines[:(!]! Man, why is everybody so down on the Union Pacific? Is it because they're incompetent? Is it because they've, on a few occasions, totally blundered the good name of companies that they took over, when such purchases should have been relatively easy? Is it because, compared to CNW or Southern Pacific, UP employees (understandably) have about as much company pride as one has for their morning turd? IS it because the company is comparatively rife with bueraucracy and a bit strict on employees? Is it because, as someone commented on this forum earlier, "Union Pacific couldn't run a train through a whorehouse?" The above is like the fourth comment I've read on this listing where someone has compared the UP logo on old SP units to graffiti or some 18 year old putz's tag ("thrasher oner, d.b.s crew"). I'm sorry, I digress, I just had to take some time to ba***he railroad that so often serves the role of the butt of many a joke. Ummm, no offense, union pacific. Reply Edit AntonioFP45 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Good ol' USA 9,642 posts Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, March 7, 2005 7:43 AM I remember back in the 70s, some well meaning bueracrat in New York City proposed the idea of designating certain subway cars for graffitti since it had seemed to have gotten out of control. No offense, but to me this man was.........a moron and though many New Yorkers considered themselves "open-minded", they didn't go for it either. Regardless of the reasoning, that would have just been telling the public that graffitti vandals were going to be rewarded for their tenacity! Too many "PC" oriented leaders in municipalities often create more problems than solve them. As a former New Yorker myself I saw it for myself. Thankfully David Gunn came along years later and said a big NO to trashing trains! The transit authority started applying the PPG 50 series Urethane Clear Coat which showed greater resistence to spray paint tagging. Additionally MTA started purchasing Stainless Steel cars. The trains are much cleaner today. The only reason we have so many tagged freight cars is that the Class 1s are no longer prioritizing appearance as they did years back when freight cars had those huge, beautiful logos. Tons per mile, not image seems to be priority. Speaking only for myself and having lived in the ghetto as a kid, parents are still the ones that can make a difference with their kids! The bored and living in the ghetto excuse just can't cut it. I often see that (not all of course) but many parents are so liberal with their kids at a young age to the point where if a child acts rudely and is corrected by another adult, the parent is offended! As some of these kids grow with no boundaries, they decide at a young age to test their limits. Tagging is a good example of this. I have a student who admits to tagging. To him or his mom, it seems like no big deal! I know that my mother would have demolished me had I trashed private property! O.K, I'm finished ranting! "I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!" Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, March 7, 2005 6:46 AM Sounds like a wonderful idea. Maybe the TV stations can put up a little booty each month for the "best painted car". [:p] QUOTE: Originally posted by wncrails QUOTE: Originally posted by bjk041089 Alot of their artwork is very artistic, but I wonder why they don't sign up for an art class of some sort? It puzzles me. Some of them are "artists", more self proclaimed then classicaly trained. I did see a video on 3 artist who came from that background. 2 of them still tagged on a regular basis. The video even showed them tagging some boxcars! I think some of the graffiti is just trash, but with the railway corps not too interested in promoting their image, why not designate a few cars to be tagged monthly? Then they wouldn't have to spend so much $$$ on boxcar brown paint and it would be legal (not necessarily pretty!![:p]) Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Monday, March 7, 2005 5:54 AM Graffiti on trains, as anywhere else, is a part of modern life...well, it actually goes back thousands of years as archeologists have found a sort of graffiti in tombs of the Egyptians dating back B.C. .....and so it is really nothing new or unique, so we will just have to live with it. Actually, some of it is pretty talented stuff but I often wonder what else the "artist' could be doing with his/her life given the tremendous amounts of time some of these works must take. Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 7, 2005 2:33 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by bjk041089 Alot of their artwork is very artistic, but I wonder why they don't sign up for an art class of some sort? It puzzles me. Some of them are "artists", more self proclaimed then classicaly trained. I did see a video on 3 artist who came from that background. 2 of them still tagged on a regular basis. The video even showed them tagging some boxcars! I think some of the graffiti is just trash, but with the railway corps not too interested in promoting their image, why not designate a few cars to be tagged monthly? Then they wouldn't have to spend so much $$$ on boxcar brown paint and it would be legal (not necessarily pretty!![:p]) Reply Edit espeefoamer Member sinceNovember 2003 From: West Coast 4,122 posts Posted by espeefoamer on Sunday, March 6, 2005 6:37 PM I don't like graffiti on trains,even when the railroads do it. There is one railroad(which shall remain unnamed,)that spraypaints its yellow graffiti on the cabs of gray locos,and even renumbers the engines[:(!]! Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool. Reply CSXrules4eva Member sinceAugust 2004 From: Louisville, KY 1,345 posts Posted by CSXrules4eva on Sunday, March 6, 2005 4:02 PM OH OK wut do I think about Graffiti on trains??/ / / / . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .hummmmmmm let me see. . . . . . . . . . .I HATE IT!!!! Like so may other members of the forums. When I see a train I want to be able to read the reporting marks and car numbers on the rail cars. When I see a locomotive I want to see the fresh paint, or even the dirty paint. Even if there is rust on the locomotive or cars I want to see that too!!!!!!!!!!!! I really ticks me off when I see it on trains. I have a friend of mine who isn't a railfan who told me he likes to see graffiti on trains. This is when I said DON't EVER AND I MEAN EVER LET ME HEAR U SAY THAT AGAIN!! Now if I see Graffiti on T-shirts (clothes) or as art work on paper or something like that I like it. I do a little grafiti myself but, it's on paper I concider them logos. LORD HELP US ALL TO BE ORIGINAL AND NOT CRISPY!!! please? Sarah J.M. Warner conductor CSX Reply selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Sunday, March 6, 2005 1:28 PM I am very late getting to this topic, but I will add that it is nothing more than gangster behaviour designed to issue a challenge. It's a cultural behaviour found in youth who do not subscribe to organization the way we older people have with our Masons, Shriners, Elks, etc. Even the Scouting organizations are struggling to get members. I would say that it is cowardly because much of the tagging is done looking over one's shoulder to see if anyone is coming. No real courage or imagination required, just paint stolen from Walmart. It's like anything else, really, one person does something that others feel is cool, and away it goes. We should find a way to make it unprofitable, as the taggers would characterize 'unprofitable'. Like being forced to repaint vandalized rolling stock by hand and brush if convicted. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Sunday, March 6, 2005 10:31 AM This AM on the Ft. Madison cam a BNSF loco went by loaded with GRAFFITI. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 3, 2005 11:40 AM Thanks & use of their talents are being wasted if we presume that they are vandals. But, what if they are really art students getting experience? That would paint a whole difference pix of them I think. In any case I enjoy most of it when I see it. Once I saw a boxcar painted up with a American flag that seem to fit the car perfectly. I told my wife that some student had to paint it as it all seemed to perfect for some untrained guy with some paint cans & no training to ccomplish. [:o)] QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Well to give them a job you have to first find them. Most likely whomever is using the paint cans on the cars would be very fearful to admit that they are doing it. Unfortunately,you bring up a VERY good point. It really is too bad,as their 'talent' is being 'wasted' Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Thursday, March 3, 2005 9:22 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Well to give them a job you have to first find them. Most likely whomever is using the paint cans on the cars would be very fearful to admit that they are doing it. Unfortunately,you bring up a VERY good point. It really is too bad,as their 'talent' is being 'wasted' Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 3, 2005 8:40 AM Well to give them a job you have to first find them. Most likely whomever is using the paint cans on the cars would be very fearful to admit that they are doing it. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 8:04 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith How about a creative solution, these kids need jobs, and God know most freight cars out there are so decrepid they could use a paint job, put 2 and 2 together. The RR's should hire these kids to repaint their cars, just give'em a photo of what a brand new car looks like, a crate of spray cans and let them have at it! If they can cover a car in graffiti in one night, they can repaint a boxcar in a day! start them at one end of the yard and in no time at all you got a bunch of shiny newly painted frieght cars! OK maybe I'm stretching at bit, but ya cant blame me for tryin'.....[8D] I think this is a good idea.Create more jobs,maybe we could get some of the 'kids' off the street. What I have seen is art,but how they do it, is vandelism,and that needs to stop. Would like to see them use their 'talents' elsewhere. Larry gave A VERY GOOD analogy for that. Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 7:52 PM I understand to some extent why people do grafitti, being an artist myself, but at least couldn't they target really old stock. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 7:44 PM Grafitti looks bad enough on boxcars, but seeing it on newely painted locomotives makes me mad. People have no curteosy for railroads anymore, including the media. Reply Edit coborn35 Member sinceJanuary 2005 From: Duluth,Minnesota,USA 4,015 posts Posted by coborn35 on Monday, February 28, 2005 7:55 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005 I get so tired of all of the holier than thou attitudes here. I actually happen to like graffiti on railroad cars. It makes them more visually interesting. I think it shows real class to deliberately NOT cover reporting marks. It does not impare the functioning of the cars, and may help to prevent rust. Trying to stop it is like pissing into the wind, so why waste the limited police resources. Police time is much better spent catching people who break into containers and steal merchandise. Railroad graffiti is not necessarily gang related, though it can be. Gang graffiti is more closely associated with stationary objects, and railroad cars move. Yes, gang members will hit cars when stopped on their turf. Personally, I can't think of too many classy neighborhoods with railroad tracks in them. Yeah, it's a crime, but it is highly impersonal when done on trains. Perhaps you would rather they be painting your car or your house. I have to admit, you got some guts putting that on there. i admire you for that. However, I think they should have a juvenile delinquint program where they put new rr logo's on the side of cars (maybe spice up the UP logo[:-^]) That would give them a way to express some feelings and also do a service to the community, to an extent at least. Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..." The Missabe Road: Safety First Reply morseman Member sinceJuly 2004 From: Ontario - Canada 463 posts Posted by morseman on Monday, February 28, 2005 7:45 PM the only grafffiti I've seen which I like, is on the Amtrak/Septa overpass just ourside Philadelphia I believe it's in Bryn Mawr on the main line The bridge in painted aluminum and some one printed L I O N E L in large black letters. Looks real proffesional. It's starting to fade now Don't know how long its been there. Apart from that, as I have mentioned on this subject several times, I strongly believe it's a crime and taggers should be arrested and punished. Reply jokestre Member sinceJanuary 2002 27 posts Posted by jokestre on Monday, February 28, 2005 11:33 AM I do not like it. The Ski Train here in Denver just got "tagged" and it is a horrible. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 28, 2005 10:17 AM Simply put graffiti is vandalism and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Most graffiti artists do their work under the cover of night so any deterrment plans must operate in these hours. At DART we have the policy of the first operator of the day on a line, be it bus or rail, who sees the "art work" on DART property to radio in and it will be gone before the end of the day. If you remove the forum for the "artists" they soon will direct their talents elsewhere. Hopfullyl to painting for Habitat for Humanity. One only has to look at British Rail and London Transit who apparently do not have a program of removal of graffiti from stationary facilities. It is almost to the point in the old country that is is beyond hope of ever removing the "artwork". DART had a problem with a highway overpass being tagged weekly. The bridge is near a high school and opposing teams would paint their school colors on the bridge before a football game. The prior user of the ROW, the Katy, tolerated this painting. After all this is one less bridge that they must paint. We were unhappy with the tagging of our new concrete light rail bridge. Talking to a school assembly was useless as was fencing. I had our Transit Police hide out one night near the bridge. It only took one night to catch a few "artists in rersidence". We charged them with all the costs of removing any artwork we found on the Garland line. which ran to a few thousand dollars. Turns out the kids who were doing it were from prominant families in town. When their fathers had to write a check for a few thousand dollars the kids really caught h - - - . The word soon spread and our problem has ended at this location. Cleaning paint from concrete is not easy. *** Watkins "Retired" DART board member Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:53 AM ...Respecting the fact everyone has their opinion....And it is obvious which side I come down on. Graffiti is a waste of talent. I don't know how one inserts these talents into the legitimate society....Surely there is a way, perhaps it takes some effort on the doer to make it happen as well. Continuing to display it on property belonging to the public and priviately owned businesses we all know is not proper and most of it is unwanted and of course against the law....Do we just pick the laws we care to uphold.... Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:28 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by southern lady How do you feel about GRAFFITI on trains? This is about the stupidest question I've ever answered! I feel warm and fuzzey about graffiti on railcars! I only wi***here was more of it, yeah right - I'm lying! JC, HANG the questioner! Jim B Reply Edit 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
Quentin
USAF TSgt C-17 Aircraft Maintenance Flying Crew Chief & Flightline Avionics Craftsman
QUOTE: Originally posted by southern lady How do you feel about GRAFFITI on trains?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer I don't like graffiti on trains,even when the railroads do it. There is one railroad(which shall remain unnamed,)that spraypaints its yellow graffiti on the cabs of gray locos,and even renumbers the engines[:(!]!
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
QUOTE: Originally posted by wncrails QUOTE: Originally posted by bjk041089 Alot of their artwork is very artistic, but I wonder why they don't sign up for an art class of some sort? It puzzles me. Some of them are "artists", more self proclaimed then classicaly trained. I did see a video on 3 artist who came from that background. 2 of them still tagged on a regular basis. The video even showed them tagging some boxcars! I think some of the graffiti is just trash, but with the railway corps not too interested in promoting their image, why not designate a few cars to be tagged monthly? Then they wouldn't have to spend so much $$$ on boxcar brown paint and it would be legal (not necessarily pretty!![:p])
QUOTE: Originally posted by bjk041089 Alot of their artwork is very artistic, but I wonder why they don't sign up for an art class of some sort? It puzzles me.
QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Well to give them a job you have to first find them. Most likely whomever is using the paint cans on the cars would be very fearful to admit that they are doing it. Unfortunately,you bring up a VERY good point. It really is too bad,as their 'talent' is being 'wasted'
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Well to give them a job you have to first find them. Most likely whomever is using the paint cans on the cars would be very fearful to admit that they are doing it.
Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!!
QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith How about a creative solution, these kids need jobs, and God know most freight cars out there are so decrepid they could use a paint job, put 2 and 2 together. The RR's should hire these kids to repaint their cars, just give'em a photo of what a brand new car looks like, a crate of spray cans and let them have at it! If they can cover a car in graffiti in one night, they can repaint a boxcar in a day! start them at one end of the yard and in no time at all you got a bunch of shiny newly painted frieght cars! OK maybe I'm stretching at bit, but ya cant blame me for tryin'.....[8D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005 I get so tired of all of the holier than thou attitudes here. I actually happen to like graffiti on railroad cars. It makes them more visually interesting. I think it shows real class to deliberately NOT cover reporting marks. It does not impare the functioning of the cars, and may help to prevent rust. Trying to stop it is like pissing into the wind, so why waste the limited police resources. Police time is much better spent catching people who break into containers and steal merchandise. Railroad graffiti is not necessarily gang related, though it can be. Gang graffiti is more closely associated with stationary objects, and railroad cars move. Yes, gang members will hit cars when stopped on their turf. Personally, I can't think of too many classy neighborhoods with railroad tracks in them. Yeah, it's a crime, but it is highly impersonal when done on trains. Perhaps you would rather they be painting your car or your house.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
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