Low water

[BNSFGP38]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

also eveything that you discribed is things that have to be checked when making a calander day inspection....and if the calander day inspection card is already fulled out for that days calander day inspection...no additional inspection is requried untill the next calander day inspection is due....so... if the locomotive is sitting at a ready track...and mechanical personel filled out the calander day inspection card...all i am required to do is get on and go...i DO NOT have to do an inspection!!!!! when the calander day inspection card is filled out for that day..that is meaning that no FRA defects have been found..and no other issues are know at that time....and someone else as done the inspection...thus releiving me of the responsiblity of doing an inspection!!!!!!
csx engineer

Ahh........its a bit different for us in the shortline world. I pull into the yard.......see what I got for a train. Do this \/

QUOTE: Before I roll it over I check the main lube oil, water level and fuel.
Once it rolls and is warming and pumping I walk around and check the brake shoes,brake cyinder travel,blower boots,couplers and a few other things.....then load test it .

.
Fill out the card/paper/whatever we call it this week. Half the time its filled out for me if the owner was there earlier. I wait for the conductor to show up and the owner to come out and tell us what we already know we have to do.[xx(] When the card/paper etc is filled out.......I dont HAVE TODO the above inspection............but it cant hurt.[:)]. This aint my day to day job.........just a chance to play with the big trains part time. [:X]

[csxengineer98]

it might have been the 1000 mile brake inspection and test......and yes thier is a whole list of rules for inspecting cars too....
csx engineer

[MP173]

Ok, slightly different question now.

I understand there are to be inspections every 24 hours on locomotives....and by the way, thanks for the responses. It sounds as if the 24 hour inspection grants the engine crew the right to operate the engine until that time expires.

So, I also heard a dispatcher talk to a CN crew about shutting down at 2359 last night "to inspect".

I believe I heard, but am not positive that they were going to walk the train.

Is there also a rule regarding inspecting the train, or more specifically the cars?


thanks,

ed

[csxengineer98]

also eveything that you discribed is things that have to be checked when making a calander day inspection....and if the calander day inspection card is already fulled out for that days calander day inspection...no additional inspection is requried untill the next calander day inspection is due....so... if the locomotive is sitting at a ready track...and mechanical personel filled out the calander day inspection card...all i am required to do is get on and go...i DO NOT have to do an inspection!!!!! when the calander day inspection card is filled out for that day..that is meaning that no FRA defects have been found..and no other issues are know at that time....and someone else as done the inspection...thus releiving me of the responsiblity of doing an inspection!!!!!!
csx engineer

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSFGP38

Before I roll it over I check the main lube oil, water level and fuel.
Once it rolls and is warming and pumping I walk around and check the brake shoes,brake cyinder travel,blower boots,couplers and a few other things.....then load test it.

The 92 day and other inspections are up to the railroad. Since the owner is also the chief mechanic,marketing department,superentendet etc....... its easy to find out when this stuff was inspected.[}:)]

a calander day inspection is required by the FRA....not just the railroad
csx engineer

[BNSFGP38]

Before I roll it over I check the main lube oil, water level and fuel.
Once it rolls and is warming and pumping I walk around and check the brake shoes,brake cyinder travel,blower boots,couplers and a few other things.....then load test it.

The 92 day and other inspections are up to the railroad. Since the owner is also the chief mechanic,marketing department,superentendet etc....... its easy to find out when this stuff was inspected.[}:)]

[csxengineer98]

post and delete
nice way to get your point across O.S.
csx engineer

[csxengineer98]

and just what is that supost to mean
csx engineer

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by O.S.

Every engineer here is responsible for inspecting the power at the beginning of his tour of duty. A train delay caused by low water is going to be charged to someone in either mechanical or transportation. Someone on the morning conference call --trainmaster, yardmaster, RFE, mechanical -- is going to be made to squirm.

I'll eat crow on the low water/hot engine trip. Shows what happens when you get away from the trenches. It's been 14 years since I came home every night (or morning!) with locomotive dirt embedded under the nails. I dug the manuals for everything out of the closet, and yes, I remembered completely wrong. And the more I thought about it, the low water will trip usually trip on the water pump before hot engine occurs, because the water pump will start sucking air intermittently.

But, if you need anything looked up on a SD39 or a GP9 or a 567B, I can oblige!

OS

if the inspection card and or work report is filled out for that days calander day inspection...NO INSPECTION IS REQUIRED!!!!! if my tour of duty starts at lets say...1am...and someone already did the daily for that day...i do not have to inspect my engins.... the inspection is already done..and no inspection is required untill 0001 the next day and must be done befor 2359 that day...that is the FRA ruleing on locomotive inspections.... checking water levels.. lub oil levels... air compresser lub oil.. and governer oil levels..just to name a few things that are required to be inspected while preforming a calander day inspection... are all supost to be check by the person making the calander day inspection....
alot of things have changed in 14 years of not being in the trenches... so what you know now about locomotives and opporating practaces of the past may not or do not apply to todays world of railroading.....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

... which would finally allow us to get rid of this old junk! LOL

[Justicar]

Course, you can stand back there and hold the low water button in and the locomotive will continue to run until it blows up. LOL

[Anonymous]

Every engineer here is responsible for inspecting the power at the beginning of his tour of duty. A train delay caused by low water is going to be charged to someone in either mechanical or transportation. Someone on the morning conference call --trainmaster, yardmaster, RFE, mechanical -- is going to be made to squirm.

I'll eat crow on the low water/hot engine trip. Shows what happens when you get away from the trenches. It's been 14 years since I came home every night (or morning!) with locomotive dirt embedded under the nails. I dug the manuals for everything out of the closet, and yes, I remembered completely wrong. And the more I thought about it, the low water will trip usually trip on the water pump before hot engine occurs, because the water pump will start sucking air intermittently.

But, if you need anything looked up on a SD39 or a GP9 or a 567B, I can oblige!

OS

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by O.S.

Wabash, has it ever occurred to you that every railroad in the U.S. of A. isn't just like yours? And that what you're responsible for doing at your railroad doesn't hold true for every railroad everywhere?

Every locomotive I turned wrenches on would usually drop to idle for hot engine long before the governor shut the engine down for low cooling water pressure or for differential pressure across the water pump being less than air-box pressure. The newest thing I've worked on was an SD40-2. Do newer locomotives always go straight to shutdown for low water?

OS

yes...evey locomotive that trips low water shuts down...and wabash is right...in major terminals where you get power from ready tracks where inspections are supost to be performed by the mechenical staff... if the inspection card for that calander day is signed off on...we are to take the power....no questions asked.... the only time an engineer has to check the water levels is when you are preforming a calander day inspection at an outlying point where mechanical personel are unavaliable to perform this task
also i think your mixing up hot engin and low water.... they are 2 differnt things
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

How much water are we talking about here? I mean, on average (differences between various equipment aside) what volume are the coolant tanks generally?

Jeff Skaling

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by O.S.

Wabash, has it ever occurred to you that every railroad in the U.S. of A. isn't just like yours? And that what you're responsible for doing at your railroad doesn't hold true for every railroad everywhere?

Every locomotive I turned wrenches on would usually drop to idle for hot engine long before the governor shut the engine down for low cooling water pressure or for differential pressure across the water pump being less than air-box pressure. The newest thing I've worked on was an SD40-2. Do newer locomotives always go straight to shutdown for low water?

OS

don't confuse a hot engine with a low water condition, A hot engine will indeed derate to a lower throttle until the engine ccols off. In fact it would be a bad idea for the engine to shut down at this point. A low water condition will shut the engine down.
Randy

[jeffhergert]

A few weeks ago our second engine dropped it's load due to low water pressure. The engineer went back to check the alarm bell. When he came back he said the fault message was "no load-low water pressure" or something like that. He didn't say, but I had the impression that it was still idling, not completely shut down. It was a GE AC unit. The local fire dept came out at 1AM and filled us up with water. I don't know if the newer engines can sense the lower pressure and reduce to idle without having to shut down the engine or not.
When we left our terminal we checked the daily inspection form. If the daily inspection is current, we are good to go. If the inspection is up at midnight (2359hrs), it kind of depends on time and location as to do the daily inspection or not. If the engine is in the yard on a train or on the service track (until recently there were no 24 hour mechanical forces at our terminal) the daily inspection would be made. If on the main line and the deadline was more than 12hours away, it might be put off. If less than 12 hours you call the dispatcher and they decide if they want it done now or later. Chances are that unless the deadline is close or they are holding you to let more important trains by, they want you out of town because there is a line of trains behind you and you'll probably be held at a control point down the line where the daily can be done. That's how we usually do it, other RR's may be different.
Jeff

[wabash1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by O.S.

Wabash, has it ever occured to you that every railroad in the U.S. of A. isn't just like yours? Or that you win more flies with honey than by saying someone else is "wrong about all of it"? That attitude wouldn't get you far in my employ.

OS

there you go. and my attitude wouldnt get me far in your employ. is that right... I have given this some thought and it is not worth my time to fight with someone who was and is totally wrong about this. this is my last statement about this so if you feel compelled to have the last word on it go on and do it.

[Anonymous]

Wabash, has it ever occurred to you that every railroad in the U.S. of A. isn't just like yours? And that what you're responsible for doing at your railroad doesn't hold true for every railroad everywhere?

Every locomotive I turned wrenches on would usually drop to idle for hot engine long before the governor shut the engine down for low cooling water pressure or for differential pressure across the water pump being less than air-box pressure. The newest thing I've worked on was an SD40-2. Do newer locomotives always go straight to shutdown for low water?

OS

[wabash1]

csx engineer is right but o.s. is wrong about all of it. it is not the crews resposibility to check the fluid levals at a major terminal . the only time i haft to check anything is out lying points. in a terminal it is the shops job and if they dont do it and tell you it is done they get the but chewing not the engineer. One time i got on my power called the shops to tell them they left the blues up . they told me the power was ready and they come out and drop the blues . they did i went 5 ft. and 2 units shut down . ( i had 3 units and the 3rd was dead in tow) seems nobody did anything. and i got new power.

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

Yeah, you can usually find those leaks pretty easily when the walkways are dyed purple or green.[:D]

lol..yea and in the cold winter season..just look for the big cloud of steam
csx engineer

[ValleyX]

Yeah, you can usually find those leaks pretty easily when the walkways are dyed purple or green.[:D]

[csxengineer98]

oh yea..forgot....
water levels in the engin will go up and down depending on how much cooling is needed... that locomotive may have been able to run at idle but shut down under load becouse the water level was just enough not to trip the low water safty ...but when the locomotive was under power...the water level droped to the unsafe zone and triped it... this is done becouse water that is stored in the expantion tank was pumped into the engin block and then to the radiators to help cool it... takes more water to cool the engin down while under power then it dose to cool it while its ideling
csx engineer

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by O.S.

MP: Yes, the water is coolant for the diesel engine. It has a corrosion inhibitor added, but no antifreeze, for reasons I've seen elaborated in numerous threads. The engine has self-protection built in and it tripped the low-water sensor. It would drop its load and go to idle, which makes it for all practical purposes a millstone.

The crew is supposed to check water levels before they leave the terminal. Either they didn't, or the unit was borderline and the yard kicked them out the door anyway because it wanted the track for something else immediately, or the cooling system has a big leak. In the first two cases, someone will get a the equivalent of a size 12 boot in the rear in the next morning's division conference call for tying up the main line.

OS

thats not 100% true...should the low water protection device trip... it shuts the engin down..not reduse it to idle.... when the low water trips..it also trips out the governer on the prime mover ...shutting the prime mover down... you have to reset the low water reset as well as the governer in order to start the locomotive agin..but if you dotn add water if thier is little to no water in the sight glass...that is just a waste of time since it will just trip agin in a matter of mins anyways....

adding water is easy... just have to waite the prescribed time limet set up in the rule book to alow water that is in the radiaterers to drain back into the expantion tank...after that time limit passes...you move the expantion tank fill cap presher relife valve to vent..benting any possitive presure in the expantion tank that could result in hot coolent forcefully basting out of the cap and causing injury.....after it is vented..its just a matter of taking the cap off and sticking in the hose ..turn the water on..and fill-er-up....when the sight glass is filled up to the proper line ..shut it off..put the cap back on..and fire it up.....now keep in mind..this is all done if it is just a matter of low water due to it not being toped off should it get low....now if thier is a major cooling leak as stated above...you will see that as soon as you fire it up and water starts leaking out of where ever the problem is...
csx engineer

[BNSFGP38]

Maybe the horse was pregnent and broke its water.[:o)]

[Anonymous]

MP: Yes, the water is coolant for the diesel engine. It has a corrosion inhibitor added, but no antifreeze, for reasons I've seen elaborated in numerous threads. The engine has self-protection built in and it tripped the low-water sensor. It would drop its load and go to idle, which makes it for all practical purposes a millstone.

The crew is supposed to check water levels before they leave the terminal. Either they didn't, or the unit was borderline and the yard kicked them out the door anyway because it wanted the track for something else immediately, or the cooling system has a big leak. In the first two cases, someone will get a the equivalent of a size 12 boot in the rear in the next morning's division conference call for tying up the main line.

OS

[tree68]

If the water gets below the crown sheet, the boiler may well explode - Oh, wait, that's on a steamer.....[;)]

[adrianspeeder]

Well, any engine uses some mix of liquid to cool it and if it leaks out or boils off the engine usually shuts off to protect itself.

Adrianspeeder

[MP173]

Listening in on the NS today, one of their heavy manifests' second unit shut down because of low water.

Ok, I am not mechanically inclined. What is the water for? To cool the engine, like an automobile? Their unit would idle, but would shut down when not in idle.

They ended up having a local volunteer fire department come out and add water.

How does the unit get low on water? They were less than 40 miles from Chicago going east, so I would have thought the unit would have been checked by the crew prior to leaving?

What do you think happened here.

ed