Travis County (Texas) Commuter Rail - Buy Hummers for the Riders instead?

[MP57313]

In the Feb. 2005 issue of Libertarian Party News, a writer from Iowa took issue with the local Libertarian view regarding a potential new commuter rail line; initial ridership was projected at 1,000 people. The trains would replace an existing bus line.

Evidently the local Libertarians had stated that buying 1,000 Chevy Hummers (?) for each of these riders would have been cheaper and more environmentally friendly.

The writer pointed out that (a) providing the Hummers would do nothing to reduce highway congestion and (b) improved (passenger rail) service attracts additional riders to transit.

The writer's final comment was that Libertarians' protests against government involvement in transportation are probably futile at this point, given the current state of involvement on the government's part. The writer compared campaigning against public transportation to campaigning against public sewer systems {an accurate if unfortunate comparison}.

MP

[Anonymous]

Commuter rail lines are a whole lot cheaper than light rail lines..... In this case, less than $100 million will be spent to build close to 20 miles of commuter rail along existing railroad right of way Northwest to Leander. Over half of the funds allocated will be to improve the existing railroad tracks....Eventually the Austin area hopes to extend the line out to the airport on the Southeast edge of the city.

As anyone knows about ridership, it seems the number of riders are always higher than projected, and in this case, a whole lot higher than 1,000 riders a day..... Considering that I-35 is a parking lot during rush hours, and the MoPac freeways isn't much better, this commuter rail line will definitely reduçe congestion.....

[daveklepper]

Commuter rail lines are lot cheaper than light rail IF the raiilroad line already exists and can accomodate the commuter trains without disrupting freight service or with modest incremental improvements. However, building a brand new commuter railroad line will be more expensive than light rail because light rail can share lanes with autos and other traffic in specific situations while commuter rail is always completely separate and with new lines probably grade separated as well. The magnetic track brake applied to PCC cars and all subsequent well-designed light rail cars allows them to reliably come to a stop as fast as an automobile. For commuter rail to have this capability, the line would require mu-car operation with magnetic track brakes on each car, and then it would not be much different than a light rail line.

The South Shore and the IC Suburban South Chicago Branch still have some limited street running, and they are the only commuter operations in the USA that have such street running. They are electrified. And they are not new. And both operations have gradually reduced street running. The South Shore (when I used to ride it) had street running in South Bend, Michigan City, and Gary, and now it is only in Gary.

Modern light rail lines use there own lanes whenever practical. But street running is a possibility where alternatives would be expensive. It is a good question whether the term "street running" applies when the line is in the street, but the lanes used are only for light rail. And what about only for light rail and buses?

[dldance]

The population of the area served is growing by at least 10% a year and traffic on the highways serving the areas comes to a complete stop at times during the rush hour. Cap Metro is already carrying amost 1,000 per day on their busses and can't add much capacity without further impacting traffic. They own the right of way and will operate all freight services during non-commute hours (similar to NJT's River line).

The $100 million project replaces a proposed light rail project that would have cost nearly a billion dollars but still provides the foundation for future growth. At least someone here is investing in the future instead more of the same old thing.

dd

[espeefoamer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

Commuter rail lines are lot cheaper than light rail IF the raiilroad line already exists and can accomodate the commuter trains without disrupting freight service or with modest incremental improvements. However, building a brand new commuter railroad line will be more expensive than light rail because light rail can share lanes with autos and other traffic in specific situations while commuter rail is always completely separate and with new lines probably grade separated as well. The magnetic track brake applied to PCC cars and all subsequent well-designed light rail cars allows them to reliably come to a stop as fast as an automobile. For commuter rail to have this capability, the line would require mu-car operation with magnetic track brakes on each car, and then it would not be much different than a light rail line.

The South Shore and the IC Suburban South Chicago Branch still have some limited street running, and they are the only commuter operations in the USA that have such street running. They are electrified. And they are not new. And both operations have gradually reduced street running. The South Shore (when I used to ride it) had street running in South Bend, Michigan City, and Gary, and now it is only in Gary.

Modern light rail lines use there own lanes whenever practical. But street running is a possibility where alternatives would be expensive. It is a good question whether the term "street running" applies when the line is in the street, but the lanes used are only for light rail. And what about only for light rail and buses?

The South Shore's street running is in Michigan City,not Gary.I have ridden the South Shore's old cars as far as the Michigan City shops,and the new cars all the way to South Bend,both to the Amtrak station and to the airport[:)].

[vsmith]

1st off that Hummer statement is the most idiotic thing I've heard in a long time...personally my attitude is that any growing urban area that has the opportunity to plan for smart growth and include public transit systems like light rail or commuter rail but vote them down based on attitudes like this, deserves all the smog congestion and migraine headaches it can get.

[edblysard]

We have street running for our light rail in Houston...smack dab down Fannin street, then the middel of Main street, all the way across town.
The south mile of the line is in a dedicated right of way beside Fannin, next to the Astrodome/Reliant Park, but he majority of the line shares the inside lane on both Fannin and Main, hence the idiots that ignore the flashing DO NOT USE signs over the center lane getting tagged....its both the left turn lane for the streets, and the ROW for the light rail.

Ed

[dldance]

while there is about 2 blocks of street running on the current Austin ROW - I think in the final plan that will be converted to dedicated rail ROW. We have noticed the the Houston plan has generated too much business for the body shops.

dd

[Anonymous]

Ah yes! Lets give everybody a Hummer. Then let's add more lanes, add more parking places in expensive congested areas, increase pollution, and increase commuting time.

Wow! What a plan.

[edblysard]

Hey...
Only two in January, and none this month so far....
of course, the month is young!

Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance

while there is about 2 blocks of street running on the current Austin ROW - I think in the final plan that will be converted to dedicated rail ROW. We have noticed the the Houston plan has generated too much business for the body shops.

dd

[tatans]

The city of Calgary has an LRT system, which was advised not to do as any city under a million population cannot afford nor support a system, so we have one anyway, and we are still under 1 million, this system and it's expansion will bury us, now they are looking at massive expansion, all the rail equipment was bought in Germany when Canada is a world leader in rapid transit technology, we could have bought everyone here a new car cheaper than the present system and this is just the beginning of some major massive expenditures, but we are in another boom,so no one cares. Be careful what your politicians are doing, we here in Canada don't get to vote on any money issues.

[dldance]

to correct a number in the Libertarian Party News, my research shows that initial ridership of the Austin system is projected at 1,700 per day (not 1,000).

nothing like distorting the facts to inflame an issue.

dd

[martin.knoepfel]

In Europe, we have many cities with less than one million population and with LRT-systems. It works well. With one million, you rather play in the league for heavy-rail elevated or subway.

[tatans]

Most European cities get massive federal subsidies to help pay for rapid transit, every hamlet in N.A. would have a train system if we had anywhere near the subsidies provided by European governments, my house taxes alone just went up 3.5% this year to help pay for this madness. who benefits?? Like the people in San Francisco who actually had a vote for BART,everyone voted for the system, the reason?? most people said if the system went in, there would be less cars on the road making it better for them to keep on taking their cars to work. The concept of "cheap" mass transit is great but the cost is far too high. I do not have the answer, do you???

[espeefoamer]

This proposal reminds me of the proposal Southern Pacific made in the 70s,to abandon thier commuter service and buy thier customers vans so they could vanpool to work.[:(!]They said this would be cheaper than running the trains.

[dldance]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

This proposal reminds me of the proposal Southern Pacific made in the 70s,to abandon thier commuter service and buy thier customers vans so they could vanpool to work.[:(!]They said this would be cheaper than running the trains.

Yes and look at what the CalTrans/Amtrak management did to that service - and it is getting thousands of cars of the road - in both directions.

dd