How Were Trains Moved to Grand Central

[Anonymous]

Interesting NYC discussion among about 3 of us.

The following are opinions and not necessarily factual.

1. Re Track 39- The west end of GCT was mainly used for inbound NYC long distance trains. There used to be a schedule board showing only inbound arrivals. Track 39 may have been used for #26 as it connected to the loop and would allow the electric to run around and take 26 to Mott Haven.

2. I suspect that Track 34 was used with the arrival of the lightweight 1938 Century which could be longer with the arrival of the J-3A Super Hudsons to haul these longer trains.


Hey! You sure started a lively discussion.

Regards Jerry

[eastside]

This may be of interest to at most 3 members of this forum, but believing in seeing for oneself, I walked over to GCT, which is in the neighborhood. Judging by the parked MetroNorth commuter trains, the platform for tracks 26 and 27, centerstage in GCT, could accommodate about 12 cars. The platform for track 34, is much longer and could easily accommodate many more than 12 passenger cars. The entrance to track 39 is in the boondocks. According to Richard Cook in "The Twentieth Century Limited," the consist of the TCL went from 12 to 17 cars in September '43. I would guess this was because of wartime traffic. It would seem that the nearest track that could accommodate such a consist without requiring an undignified trek would have been 34. This is the best reason I can think of for the TCL going from the centerstage to slightly aside.

To see the platform entrances at GCT:
http://www.grandcentralterminal.com/pages/getpage.aspx?id=25DA022E-85FD-4E61-9EE9-944F7063F840
For a layout of GCT's tracks:
http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/gct61.html

[daveklepper]

While much of what is written is correct, there were definitely cases of the entire passenger train being backed down to GCT from Mott Haven, with the conductor or a trainman with the air-brake release valve typically used in other back-up moves, like the California Zephyr into Denver Union Station and many Amtrak trains at various times into Union Station. It depended on power availability and the length of the train, and possibly scheduling, since the backups all the way from Mott Haven were generally about 25 mph tops while speed limit generally was 35 or 40 mph on the viaduct and in the tunnels. The NYC S-motor switchers were used for both New Haven and Neew York Central trains between Mott Haven and GCT. If a New Haven engine was put the train at Mott Haven, then it was the road power, weither backing it in all the way or running around just north of the station. Of coursse, much of what I saw was during WWII, and may have not been regular practice for which the facility was designed.

[eastside]

QUOTE: Originally posted by arnstg

These are my recollections from the late 40's and early 50's.
...
The only exception, as far as I know, was the 20th Century Limited. The loco would pull in on Track 34. It would disconnect and move forward. A switch connected 34 to 33. The loco would run around on 33 and then pu***he Century in.

Thanks a lot for the info! Since you go back to the '40s perhaps you could answer another question. Recently an article in my school's alumni magazine in which a group of alumni went on a tour of GCT quoted a guide who said that the 20th Century Limited used track 39. I sent a letter saying that every photo and document I had seen showed that it used 34, as you say. (Maybe 39 was used by the Commodore Vanderbilt?) Before that the TCL used tracks 26 and 27, the most prestigious tracks in the terminal. From the books I have it seems the TCL was moved to track 34 sometime during the '40s (because of the war?). I wonder why it was moved to a more inconspicuous, outlying track. Was it because the trains were getting too long for 26 and 27?

[Anonymous]

These are my recollections from the late 40's and early 50's.

Trains from Mott Haven would be backed in. The loco would pull into the station platform and cut off and pull free of the train. A second loco would then go west with the train and the first loco would be free to leave.

The only exception, as far as I know, was the 20th Century Limited. The loco would pull in on Track 34. It would disconnect and move forward. A switch connected 34 to 33. The loco would run around on 33 and then pu***he Century in.

Last time I was in GCT the switch from 34 to 33 was still there. I doubt if they use it these days.


Oops! Forgot to add that yes NH also used the Mott Haven Yard.

[eastside]

I read in a book that NYC passenger trains were backed into Grand Central from the Mott Haven yard, presumably meaning observation car first. That’s a haul of about 5 miles. Does anyone know how this was done? It seems reasonable that an electric locomotive would be attached to the rear and the consist pulled into GCT, where it would de-couple before entering the platform area. Otherwise to push a train in reverse for the full distance over such a heavily used route would seem risky and slow. What would the rules be for running a train in reverse for such a long distance? In the ‘20s, ’30s, and ‘40s non-revenue movements between GCT and Mott Haven must have accounted for a lot of the traffic on the Park Avenue tracks. Was the loop track at GCT too cumbersome to use to reverse trains?

BTW, did New Haven trains also use Mott Haven?