When I arrived at the Utica yard to work a train earlier this year, both CSX mains at Utica were tied. Track 1 had a westbound making a pick-up from the Mohawk, Adirondack & Northern, and Track 2 had an eastbound working the Susquehanna yard.
All work for Susquehanna is done from Track 2, both pick-ups and set-outs, and by eastbounds. OTOH, all work for MHWA is done from Track 1, but pick-ups are by westbounds and set-outs are done by eastbounds that have to cross over, thus tying up both mains for a period...
In all cases, this isn't a five minute operation.
One day I found the WB CSX making a pickup from MHWA. The conductor walked a couple of miles "the back way" to get to a coffee shop for refreshments for the crew. Aside from the fact that he did, in fact, have a key to a gate that would have shortened the trip considerably, all that time Track 1 was blocked, likely to some effect on traffic.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Well documented Balt; Thanks
jeffhergertWhen replacing signals, only one set is in service at a time. Two signal boxes only mean the circuitry controlling the signals is also being updated. Something I learned a few years ago after a lightning strike took out a signal box at a control point, they are now prebuilt with the electonics installed. They can change out some components, but for massive projects (like replacement due to lightning or upgrades) they just get a new box. PTC installations also get their own box and antenna. The whole idea behind CTC on two (or more) tracks is flexibility. You can move trains from one track to another as conditions require. Most lines will have in spots what seems like a current of traffic. On the west Iowa trains tend to run righthanded. Things like MOW/signal, the way freight having to work a few locations, or weaving trains around others can change that balance. Some yards, both crew terminals or intermediate yards, are better worked from one track or the other. I don't know Rochelle's layout, except I believe most of the tracks are on the south side. Generally, it's "easier" for a train to work off the track closest to the yard. (The actual easiest is if you can pull into and through a yard.) With longer trains doing work, the physical layout of everything: yard, BNSF xing, crossovers, etc. may have changed how things are done. Being able to run either direction on either track is far better than the old current of traffic, signalled in one direction only double track. Back then the number of handthrow crossovers were few and far between. (At one time, from old time tables in my collection, they were more numerous. Time took a toll on them.) If someone had problems or MOW had to fix an impassable track defect, delays cascaded really fast. Many times requiring multiple dog catch crews to start dragging in trains where the crews ran out of time. Jeff
The whole idea behind CTC on two (or more) tracks is flexibility. You can move trains from one track to another as conditions require. Most lines will have in spots what seems like a current of traffic. On the west Iowa trains tend to run righthanded. Things like MOW/signal, the way freight having to work a few locations, or weaving trains around others can change that balance.
Some yards, both crew terminals or intermediate yards, are better worked from one track or the other. I don't know Rochelle's layout, except I believe most of the tracks are on the south side. Generally, it's "easier" for a train to work off the track closest to the yard. (The actual easiest is if you can pull into and through a yard.) With longer trains doing work, the physical layout of everything: yard, BNSF xing, crossovers, etc. may have changed how things are done.
Being able to run either direction on either track is far better than the old current of traffic, signalled in one direction only double track. Back then the number of handthrow crossovers were few and far between. (At one time, from old time tables in my collection, they were more numerous. Time took a toll on them.) If someone had problems or MOW had to fix an impassable track defect, delays cascaded really fast. Many times requiring multiple dog catch crews to start dragging in trains where the crews ran out of time.
Jeff
Very few multiple track line segments sprung into existence as a multiple track line segment. The origin of most track segments was as a single track installation. As traffic on the segment increased the line would be given a second track - it is very possible when these multiple track segments were originated it was done WITHOUT signals. The next upgrade to such line segments was likely current of traffic signaling. It took improved communications abilities to be able to create CTC with sufficient checks and balances to be able to control an entire lines signals.
Most businesses that grew up along the line segment would have be situated so that they could be accessed with a trailing point switch, as the jobs that serviced them would be coming with cars trailing the engine. In single track segments the locations of passing sidings and storage tracks 'could' facilitate a local being able to work an industry with facing point access - or the local would work all trailing point industries out to some turn-around point - run around their train and work back to their origin serving what are now the industries that are trailing point.
In multiple track territores, industries are accessed off of a specific track. In the days of 4 track rights of way - the 'outside' tracks were for industires and local passenger station stops. The inside tracks were for through trains - both passenger and freight as they would not normally be stopping for passenger work or industrial work.
As all this progressed to today via current of traffic signalling and later signalling in both directions under CTC control we have ended with tracks that can be operated under signal indication in either direction, but could create big issues if a bad order requiring being set out of the train happened on the 'wrong' track.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
When replacing signals, only one set is in service at a time. Two signal boxes only mean the circuitry controlling the signals is also being updated. Something I learned a few years ago after a lightning strike took out a signal box at a control point, they are now prebuilt with the electonics installed. They can change out some components, but for massive projects (like replacement due to lightning or upgrades) they just get a new box. PTC installations also get their own box and antenna.
jeffhergert
Many here at the forums remember K. P. Harrier that for many years notoriously photo-updated us all on the two tracking of the Sunset Route in Southern California and Arizona. In private discussions with him, he noted that at transition points, i.e., where new color light transitioned to old target signals, there were always TWO wiring bungalows side by side! By those bungalows constantly communication with each other a certain failsafe redundancy was had, and any circuitry incompatibility that may have existed was overcome.
It was mentioned earlier in this thread that left and right running isn’t clear on your line, and both tracks are used in a multi-direction fashion, though Metra near Chicago is generally left running. If true, Union Pacific is sitting on a future operating disaster. On the Southern Transcom, for years BNSF got away with savvy dispatching by jokeying train positions between fleets passing each other. On the ex-CNW, your line Jeff, if trains are using each track multi-directionally now, UP is sitting on a dispatching disaster that can only be overcome by severely rethinking things or adding a third track.
Jeff I've did it too but we had the brakeman in the seat of the DP in case of lost communication to the DP, His instructions was to put the DP in emergency in case something went wrong, Conductor was on the ground talking to me.
jeffhergert mvlandsw With DPU units in a train is it possible to separate the train using the head end power and shove a car into a facing point track using the rear unit(s)? Mark Yes. You could temporarily discontinue DP operation and go to the rear DP and do what you need to do. It used to require ending DP operation but now they are being equipped to suspend without completely discontinuing DP. It also can temporarily transfer rear DP control to a midtrain set. I haven't done it and hope I never have to. The only thing is getting a ride to the remotes. Now if you're asking if you could operate the rear DP separated from the headend for a switching move, yes it is possible. I know a retired engineer who did that once. It was pointed out to him that if the DP lost communication, you wouldn't be able to stop it. A DP will operate in power for 90 minutes at the last command it received. Jeff
mvlandsw With DPU units in a train is it possible to separate the train using the head end power and shove a car into a facing point track using the rear unit(s)? Mark
With DPU units in a train is it possible to separate the train using the head end power and shove a car into a facing point track using the rear unit(s)?
Mark
Yes. You could temporarily discontinue DP operation and go to the rear DP and do what you need to do. It used to require ending DP operation but now they are being equipped to suspend without completely discontinuing DP. It also can temporarily transfer rear DP control to a midtrain set. I haven't done it and hope I never have to.
The only thing is getting a ride to the remotes.
Now if you're asking if you could operate the rear DP separated from the headend for a switching move, yes it is possible. I know a retired engineer who did that once. It was pointed out to him that if the DP lost communication, you wouldn't be able to stop it. A DP will operate in power for 90 minutes at the last command it received.
I can imagine the Engineer that operates the DPU from the lead engine to set out a bad order in a 5 car industry spur and after initiating the shove into the industry communications fail and the shove continues uncontrolled.
Backshop (about just above):
“Her” and “they” are illogical. Was it a trick post?
Yes, Rochelle changed her orientation. They are now referred to as "Richard".
Erik Mag:
Yes, you are right, left running at Solano Beach (SoCal), as well as other beech cities. The line inland changes to right running.
An interesting quirk is with BNSF freights. Coaster commuter trains will actually stop and wait for BNSF’s to pass in the same direction, then follow them! The commuter trains (NOT Amtrak) make so many commuter stops the freights actually make better time!
croteaudd Here in California, San Bernardino-Fullerton-Los Angeles is left running (includes commuter), as with Cajon Pass as far east to the Frost area and the Natural Crossover. San Diego-Fullerton (mainly commuter) is generally left running too except the beech area-Fullerton which is strangely right running.
Here in California, San Bernardino-Fullerton-Los Angeles is left running (includes commuter), as with Cajon Pass as far east to the Frost area and the Natural Crossover. San Diego-Fullerton (mainly commuter) is generally left running too except the beech area-Fullerton which is strangely right running.
The northbound track in Solana Beach is on the west side, the southbound track is on the east side, i.e. left running.
CSSHEGEWISCH croteaudd Except in emergency situations, commuter trains (Metra) are always either left running or right running. There is a standing exception on the West Line west of Proviso. Several inbound morning trains stop at the outbound platform at Elmhurst, possibly some other stops further west. I would assume that this is to avoid tying up the track into Proviso for inbound freights.
croteaudd Except in emergency situations, commuter trains (Metra) are always either left running or right running.
Except in emergency situations, commuter trains (Metra) are always either left running or right running.
There is a standing exception on the West Line west of Proviso. Several inbound morning trains stop at the outbound platform at Elmhurst, possibly some other stops further west. I would assume that this is to avoid tying up the track into Proviso for inbound freights.
On the RF&P the major Main tracks are #2 and #3. In current of traffic days, #2 was Northbound and #3 was Southbound. In today's world the entire railroad is CTC on all tracks.
VRE commuters from Fredericksburg to DC are NORMALLY operated on #2 track in both directions. When VRE constructed their stations they did not give all of them safe access to track #3. VRE does not operate in both directions during their periods of operation.
charlie hebdo:
You brought up a very important aspect that I had forgotten about, commuter trains.
That obviously changes the slant of this thread.
Getting back to the Chicago-Omaha area, while the train count may be big, it obvious is not as large as BNSF’s Southern Transcon. A few years ago, BNSF was inspired to build the Truxton (AZ) Flyover. Because no other flyovers have been built, the master plan may be to run left running from Truxton to Chicago. (There is only a spot or two left, not including the two-tracking in Oklahoma which because of two routes it is as if BNSF is triple-tracking.)
CTC across most of Illinois and Iowa. In some places the preponderance of trains may seem to be a quasi-current of traffic, i.e, most trains seem to stay to the left or right. This is usually due to considerations like work events at terminals.
As Balt noted, where trains usually are ran right handed, as most west of Boone are, they can't use the old set out tracks that were orientated for trailing points for left handed running. However, that problem was "solved" with the coming of PTC and the abandonment of CNW cab signals. They pulled up most of the remaining set out points not connected with an industry.
This was done because to be able to abandon the cab signals, all hand throw switches had to be updated into PTC. Before, if a train was aleady in a signal block and the switch was opened, PTC didn't pick that up. The wreck at Stanwood Iowa a few years ago brought this requirement. So instead of wiring in all the hand throws, they removed quite a few of them.
Many of the remaining stub tracks that can be used for a set out seem to be blocked with MOW machinery during the warmer seasons.
blhanelThe Overland Route through Illinois and Iowa (and points west) has long since been converted to two-main-track running, which means that trains can use either main in either direction at the dispatcher's discretion. Here in Cedar Rapids, IA it is common to see trains running both directions on both mains, mainly dependent on MoW, traffic, yard pick-ups/set-outs, etc. The establishment of high-speed crossovers every 15 miles or so makes this possible.
While state of the art signalling on multiple track territory permits track speed signaled operation on all track in either direction - it is good, as long as a train doen't end up needing to set out a bad order while operating on a track that was originally signalled for operation opposite of the current direction of the train. To efficiently set off a bad order, the set out track must be a trailing point movement for the train's direction of travel. ie. If you are operating Westbound on what was the Eastbound track under current of traffic signalling - the spur and industry tracks are configured to support that Eastbound movement - most switches will be facing point to the direction the train is moving.
Bad orders create all sorts of situations no matter what track a train is operating on.
The Overland Route through Illinois and Iowa (and points west) has long since been converted to two-main-track running, which means that trains can use either main in either direction at the dispatcher's discretion. Here in Cedar Rapids, IA it is common to see trains running both directions on both mains, mainly dependent on MoW, traffic, yard pick-ups/set-outs, etc. The establishment of high-speed crossovers every 15 miles or so makes this possible.
Brian (IA) http://blhanel.rrpicturearchives.net.
Much farther east, the operation is mostly LH, probably to be compatible with Metra.
In yesteryear, in Rochelle, IL, it is well-known that the C&NW Overland Route was a left running operation. Today, under UP, watching the Rochelle webcam, it appears the line is basically right running now. But, because of setouts and pickups in Rochelle, that right running orientation is kind of murky and not obvious. Can someone confirm the right running orientation or explain the situation if otherwise?
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