Trains.com

French Railway Network Under Attack

1175 views
14 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, July 28, 2024 11:43 AM

Have no idea what the SNCF standards for installing fiber is.  However, around here all aerial fiber has a loop back of about 25 feet every block or so. Then if fiber cable is broken only one splice will be needed instead of 2 splices which is very time consuming.  As well the repair man can have this slack pulled down so the splicing can be done in the clean trailer.

SNCF will need some kind of clean location to do the splices. 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, July 28, 2024 8:40 AM

CMStPnP
And how long does that all take, including testing?

Remember that the 'testing' is done concurrent with the repair, and only involves a short period of polyspectral signal injection -- the results won't change with 'exercising'.

They would likely cut in at the nearest fiber amplifier locations either side and use TDRs (time-domain reflectometers) to determine the length of the deflicted section.  The only real 'time-consuming' part would be pulling new fiber if a substantial length is affected -- normal installation involves either extra space in the conduit or enclosure, or direct burial that can be trenched out, with care for minimum radius for fiber+jacket... there was a lot or 'revealed wisdom' about pulling and replacing fiber in the bad old days of the center flaws in multimode fiber!

As splicing is done, the people monitoring the 'ends' report patency, until TDR reports no hint of reflection.  Signals are then injected at each wavelength used (this is the 'polyspectral' part) to assure the repair is complete.

Field reassembly of the jacketing and armoring might take a few hours to apply and 'cure', but it is likely that the fiber itself could be put back in service, if needed, while that is going on.  There is a slight risk of breakage while the repackaging and re-laying is being conducted, but that is easily detected and addressed.

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, July 28, 2024 7:04 AM

Overmod
There were good field-splice kits for both local and 'backbone' fiber prior to the early-2000s tech crash.  EXFO in particular had a good understanding of what was needed and how to inject test signals into the fiber while the splice was made. As with rail defects: if you "find something" like a crack or spall via a TDR, you just cut out the affected length and do the equivalent of two Boutet splices (one for the fiber and one for the cladding -- the actual process is more complex technically, of course, but all the stuff necessary is in the field kits) at each end, with a length of suitable replacement fiber.  Then the jacketing and armoring can be put back.

And how long does that all take, including testing?

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Saturday, July 27, 2024 3:01 PM

There were good field-splice kits for both local and 'backbone' fiber prior to the early-2000s tech crash.  EXFO in particular had a good understanding of what was needed and how to inject test signals into the fiber while the splice was made.

As with rail defects: if you "find something" like a crack or spall via a TDR, you just cut out the affected length and do the equivalent of two Boutet splices (one for the fiber and one for the cladding -- the actual process is more complex technically, of course, but all the stuff necessary is in the field kits) at each end, with a length of suitable replacement fiber.  Then the jacketing and armoring can be put back.

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, July 27, 2024 10:51 AM

BaltACD
One outlet was attributing it to the 'Russian Chaos' theory, since Russia 'as a country' is prohibited from competing because of the PED fiasco from the Moscow Olympics were the Russian testing organization, passed all the Russian participants even though subsequent testing of the 'B' samples after the event teste positive.

Looks like sour grapes to me as well for motivation.   If Russia did not do it directly they certainly had a hand in it.    Too much intel and coordination needed for an operation like this without an outside country backing it.    Also, the fact they took great pains to make sure nobody was hurt.......thus avoiding potentially an Article 5 invocation of the NATO treaty.   France may or maynot come out and say that.

Also on the Fiber Optic cables, very difficult to splice those once they are damaged and they have to be heavily tested once spliced to make sure they are operating at 100%.   Because as most know, glass impurities refract and reflect light vs transmit it.   Hence the issue there with time to repair at least that was an issue long ago, not sure if it still is or if splicing ability has improved.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,274 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 26, 2024 10:42 PM

CMStPnP
Honestly, I think the sabotage is probably a wasted effort in all respects.   I don't see how this will influence anyone on any issue.    So I almost want to point a finger at who I suspect is responsible because it kind of fits with the Fred Flintstone & Barney Rubble type approach of a specific country (perhaps influenced by General Bam-Bam).    I could be wrong of course and time will tell so will wait in see on this.

One outlet was attributing it to the 'Russian Chaos' theory, since Russia 'as a country' is prohibited from competing because of the PED fiasco from the Moscow Olympics were the Russian testing organization, passed all the Russian participants even though subsequent testing of the 'B' samples after the event teste positive.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, July 26, 2024 7:43 PM

Honestly, I think the sabotage is probably a wasted effort in all respects.   I don't see how this will influence anyone on any issue.    So I almost want to point a finger at who I suspect is responsible because it kind of fits with the Fred Flintstone & Barney Rubble type approach of a specific country (perhaps influenced by General Bam-Bam).    I could be wrong of course and time will tell so will wait in see on this.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,274 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 26, 2024 3:57 PM

PJS1
 
Backshop
 It's just the French being French.  Their holiday season coincides with their protest season. 

Sort of reminds me of how a professor of European history at Penn State once defined the difference between how the Germans, English, and French would respond to being stuck on a train that had broken down.  

The Germans would sit stocially discussing the probable engineering issues and how to resolve them.  The English would pen letters to the Minister of Transport expressing their dismay at the delay.  And the French would rip up the train!

Featured the French would make amorus use of the delay time.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Texas
  • 1,552 posts
Posted by PJS1 on Friday, July 26, 2024 3:05 PM

Backshop
 It's just the French being French.  Their holiday season coincides with their protest season.

Sort of reminds me of how a professor of European history at Penn State once defined the difference between how the Germans, English, and French would respond to being stuck on a train that had broken down.  

The Germans would sit stocially discussing the probable engineering issues and how to resolve them.  The English would pen letters to the Minister of Transport expressing their dismay at the delay.  And the French would rip up the train!

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Louisiana
  • 2,310 posts
Posted by Paul of Covington on Friday, July 26, 2024 12:58 PM

_____________ 

  "A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • 2,631 posts
Posted by Backshop on Friday, July 26, 2024 12:41 PM

It's just the French being French.  Their holiday season coincides with their protest season.

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 9,728 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, July 26, 2024 9:45 AM

COL BEAUSABRE

NOTE - I think any speculation as to who is behind this - it's obviously coordinated and targeted - will run foul of forum guidelines on political discussion. We can discuss the what, but not the who and why.

 

Right.  And up until now I don't believe any group has claimed "credit" for the attacks. Any speculation on the subject would be just that.

  • Member since
    April 2024
  • 19 posts
Posted by COL BEAUSABRE on Friday, July 26, 2024 6:59 AM
  • Member since
    April 2024
  • 19 posts
Posted by COL BEAUSABRE on Friday, July 26, 2024 6:05 AM

NOTE - I think any speculation as to who is behind this - it's obviously coordinated and targeted - will run foul of forum guidelines on political discussion. We can discuss the what, but not the who and why.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy