Mergers-Just for fun!!

[Anonymous]

Just a light hearted game, Name the mergers YOU wi***here had been, and why....

For sure, someone will come along, and explain why "your" merger ~never woulda worked~ or ~would have been illegal~ etc, and THAT will be half the fun, defending the logic you chose.

Sort of a "Railroad Tycoon" on someone else's dime, such as the case may be..

Post WWII roads only!!!

I'll start..
New York, Chicago, Santa Fe, & Los Angeles...The Nickel Plated Santa Fe. (though a more likely name would have been Santa Fe & Great Lakes)

Talk about a transcon!!! With all the current emphasis upon fast "coast to coast" service, this would be a natural..

The premise, suppose the Santa Fe had picked up the Nickel Plate instead of N&W.

[Anonymous]

The Santa Fe and Conrail would have been a piggyback powerhouse. The two best intermodal railroads that ever loaded a flatcar. The route of the Super-C extended to New York. Something that BNSF, NS, CSX are trying to do today.

[BRAKIE]

Ok,Just for fun,How about the Santa Fe and the C&O/B&O(before Chessie)? Chesapeake & Santa Fe.Coast to coast!
How about Great Northern Erie-Lackawanna? You can think of a name.This is fun fun right?

[Anonymous]

Alaska rr Candian pacific Illinois Central and TFM.

[Anonymous]

Southern Pacific and Chicago, Burlington and Quincy.
Imagine the Blue Streak Merchandise ripping along the triple track at 70mph!

[Anonymous]

Erie Lackawanna,Milwaukee Road,Rock Island, Denver & Rio Grande Western,Western Pacific
I give you the Atlantic & Pacific Railroad!

[CShaveRR]

Good grief! I give you back the Belly-up Central! (unless Perlman was put in charge)

[GerFust]

How about Amtrak and Greyhound (yes, a merger outside of the rails), building a single corporation specializing in moving people. (No, you don't need to remind me about how much freight they transport). That would give Amtrak lower per-route overhead on the runs they make on busses anyway, and perhaps expedite some of Greyhounds service offerings, especially if the schedules were well coordinated.

It would also take care of one of my complaints about Amtrak - they stop every 30-45 minutes (east of the Mississippi) at small, out-of-the-way stations. Using more busses as feeders (possibly the Greyhound regular routes) they can make less stops and get through MUCH faster.

If you like, we can add either UPS or Federal Express in this new corproation for fun!

[Anonymous]

OK, here's my railway: The C&NW combined with the BN, the IAIS, and the CR and IC to form the ultimate regional superpower. Think about it, convenient passenger service anywhere between the Mississippi and the Missouri, and maybe even a few express runs to the outlying suburbs of Des Moines, Metra Rail Style.

[Anonymous]

It is interesting that in all the replys no one used the union pacific. Why ?

[GerFust]

Federal anti-trust laws?

[cbq9911a]

How about Pennsylvania and Milwaukee Road. And lets suppose the merger took place in 1946.

No real antitrust issues, Pennsy and Milwaukee only connected in two places, Chicago and wherever the Indiana coal line crossed the PRR Indianapolis-St. Louis Line.

Good traffic potential - single line service from the East Coast to most of the Midwest.

Catenary at both ends - and some money put into the system. No more West Coast gap. And lots of new electrics. Can you say DC GG1?

The name of the merged line will be "PRR", but HQ will be in Chicago. But the colors will be orange and maroon. The electrics will still have pinstripes, as God intended.

The S3s will go East, as soon as they go thru the shop to get the headlight relocated to its proper spot atop the boiler. Gotta make room for the keystone number plate.

[Anonymous]

Can you say "We will Deliver" your freight sometime in the near to distant future after completing mergers.

[Anonymous]

One that never would've been, but wish it had:

Spokane Portland & Seattle + WP + DRGW

SP&S & WP were affiliated anyway through the inside gateway.... and DRGW and WP would make sense. only problem is none of them had the ca***o do it, and SP&S was a solid BN company....

One that SHOULD have been:
ATSF+NYC. How can you be any more perfect than that? The Super Transcon + The Water Level Route= the first true US transcon coast to coast on the finest alignments avaialable.

One that still COULD be:

BNSF+NS+..... UPS!
Would make the first genuine transcon, (and as a N&W fan I want it to be NS and not CSX...)

Adding UPS into the fold- (heck, probably as dominant partner!) would allow completer intergrationg of rail, air, and highway freight transit- the ultimate transportation company!

[Anonymous]

Here's a few that were REALLY considered, but fell through for one reason or another.

Lamentable because they would have fostered competition (i.e., end-to-end competitive networks)instead of eliminating it (parallel mergers) and perhaps there'd be a lot more mileage still in place.

1) Rock Island + UP, with the Golden State route spun off to SP. NO EXCUSE for the ICC to have drug this out 14 years. Amtrak would be calling on Moline, Iowa City and Des Moines right now.
With the exception of the Iowa Interstate, this one DID basically wind up coming true, albeit taking a long, ugly road to get there.

2) SOO + CGW: This one would have kept most of the CGW trackage shiny, although operational headaches (but fan favorites) like Winston Tunnel would have probably been eliminated through trackage rights agreements (IC South Freeport-East Dubuque). Throw in KCS (elevating the Deramuses to full "rail baron" status)or MKT for a gulf outlet (see next item).

3) MKT + CGW + C&EI: Strictly end-to-end-to-end (each one touched the other two in only one spot)Makes an interesting pattern across the Midwest. Would have been able to snag more and longer hauls on orginating and terminating traffic.

4) PRR + N&W / NYC + B&O/C&O: This one also finally happened after a long and tragic journey. Oh, the irony of the Conrail breakup, right down to the "PRR" and "NYC" reporting marks! 40 years later, Robert R. Young is vindicated.

Well, that's enough for now. Fire away!

Harold

[Anonymous]

I know I did not specify this in advance as I should have (So, I get to be the threads first scoundrel./...Yippee!!!)

But I was kinda thinking about utilizing the Pen-Central disaster merger (and it's decendants) as the Merger EVERYONE could feel good about beating...=)

But, you got some good Route miles, to be sure..

As a mere formality, could I ask you to focus your eastern entity to a Pre modern day disaster road?...(PRR or NYC)?...=)

[Anonymous]

>>This is fun fun right?
Well, OF COURSE!! What kind of monster would do this if the livlihoods of 10's of thousands of real people were at stake??? (just kidding)

The SF/CO or SF/BO combo would be a POWERHOUSE tying the "get serious" ports on both coasts together....Compete with the panama canal anyone? =)

And the GN/Erie combo could tie the heartland to both oceans extremely well..

In fact, something CLOSE to that was what inspired this fool thread in my head in the first place. Perhaps a Milwaukee/Erie resurrection from the boneyard..?

Of course, time, chance, and happenstance were necessary evils to result in "The throw away TransCon" one would have to have been fortuitously lucky to mastermind those roads together when still viable.

But the intriguing thing for me is, that the seeming "plum in the pie" to drive the next big merger (coast to coast solo) at considerable pain, just happens to be something someone else already threw away... IRON(ic) Railroad? for a name?

[Anonymous]

>


You put some serious thought into that combo,...I am impressed!!..=)

[Anonymous]

Ya know, ..you have hit upon a pretty darn good stratagem,.... that I had not even pondered.

Go back 50 years, tie an eastern road to SP that "hits" chicago better than cotton belt, And you could rewrite history....give SF and UP a down right hard run for the money..


I'll bet you RULE in Railroad Tycoon PC game???

[Anonymous]

>

Not bad!! Back when cars still had Tailfins, I used to shop at a Grocery store chain By that name "A&P Tea company" or A&P for short.

But you tapped right into my thoughts on the Transcon that was Thrown away (more or less) Milwaukee and EL.

With the next big merger holding the prize of Coast to coast to the victor, It's kinda "Iron(ic) Railroad" that someone else already threw it away, wouldn'tcha say?...=)

[Anonymous]

>> If you like, we can add either UPS or Federal Express in this new corproation for fun!

You get the "Creativity Prize" for sure.




May I suggest 'holiday inn' as a possible 'mixer', in an abstract way *THAT* is where Amtrack needs to aquire some common sense expertise (IMHO)

Going on Vacation from LA to Indiana in september, and pondered the 'experiance' of passenger train in lieu of AIR, 'getting there' being half the fun.


Knowing full well The Rail would be higher than air, And being willing to pay a reasonable premium in the trade, afterall "the meals/ the bed/the Restroom" all deliver extra value etc yada yada.


And, shooting for middle of the road accomodations from an Amtrak brochure got the price for the sleeper upgrade from basic coach fare mistakenly in my mind as the total fare, Approx $680.00

Seemed reasonable, High compared to round trip air fare of $420.00, but, the extra atmosphere, etc


Then got serious at Amtracks web site, discovered that the "basic rate' of approx $330.00 had to be factored in.


And, A thousand dollars was just more than i would pay for the privy....I could pay, BUT NOT WITHOUT CONCERN THAT I WAS SERIOUSLY SUBSIDIZING SOME SCHMOES COMMUTE TO WORK ON THE EAST COAST IN THE PROCESS, so I was unwilling to feel abused that badly is the way I can best describe the feeling.


In General, when factoring travel accomodations, I use my own 'Holiday Inn" benchmarks to evaluate whether I am staying in "Luxurious/Average/Slum" lodging, and or "Ritz/HolidayInn/EconoLodge" price scale.

Not a "Holiday Inn resort" or such but over decades holiday Inn has provided clean, home like rooms at prices I really could not complain about, so it is my "Room-u-lator" of sorts.


AND, if instead, I add the "lodging at Chez Amtrack" costs to the 'transportation' costs, I'm getting a Royal rooking, it's that simple.

With the roomsize cramped as acknowledged in Amtracks own words cautioning the size of carry on luggage in context to roomette spaciousness, the best rating i could give the lodging would be slightly below average, all mitigating factors summed out...

And the price? Do the math yourself.

The reason WHY the railroad HAS to offer "the meals, the cots, yada yada" is solely because they cant gety me there in one waking cycle in a humans life. as the $400.00 plane can

Back in the day where it offered transportation and a nights sleep to chicago etc Allowing Rockefeller to show up for a meeting over night and be fresh and rested in the bargain, AND GET HIM THERE THE FASTEST of all available means, then I'M SURE IT WAS worth a hefty premium...

But, it's not the gay 1890's anymore, I was willing to absorb reasonable excesses in cost for the rite of passage,...but the railroad has got to get realistic as well, or (first time I've said this) BYE BYE Amtrack, RIP.


Perhaps it is I who is 'off value' here,...but 4 nights at an absolute max of $80.00 per room night is the value of lodging "sold" I think the boys at Holiday Inn could help passenger rail Immensely.

I could get a room at holiday inn for a day on both ends of flying each way and come out money ahead, and have a nicer room. And THAT is the economics Amtrack is gonna HAVE to come near if they want to be desireable to a realistic customer base....=)

[Anonymous]

Boy!!, you wouldn't like to see UP get beat up badly or anything would ya? =)

you built not just a regional superpower, you shaved a 900 lb gorilla and kicked him good before turning him loose with that combo..=)

[Anonymous]

>>It is interesting that in all the replys no one used the union pacific. Why ?
I noticed the same thing, and UP is certainly a mighty fine road, especially in an "All the Kings Horses" kinda way. And (just guessing) coupled with the "zero sum game" perspective that the road (top- on- down) seems to see "North American Railroading" to necessarily be, almosts casts the road in the role of a James Bond villan of sorts,...ie "the one to beat"...

Just guessing though...=)

[Anonymous]

Yes, Santa Fe and NYC

[dt8089]

Here's my idea of a powerhouse merger. How about the Erie-Lackawana Wabash Rock Island DRGW SP-SSW. Can you say Golden State Route? Auto parts and later on stack trains. Would be named the GREAT Atlantic and Pacific Railroad. Fall into the GAP as the commercial says. Dan

[Anonymous]

The "kicker" of using the Wabash routes to tie the E.L. to the S.P. is a very interesting idea....

[Anonymous]

You're all yankees! How about ruling the south, east-west, with Southern and Southern Pacific......

[Anonymous]

Even though I have already been told that these could never have happened:
ATSF & Conrail, BN & NS, UP & CSX,
Not only would these have been viable in the sense that they would have had natural "links", but mgmt styles, operating philosophies, etc. would have been much more compatible.

[jamesedwbradley]

My self-imposed 30 min/day on web won't permit me to read all the replies on this slow forum, but I think a 3-system west would have been better: MoPac/T&P + Santa Fe, including D&RGW/WP; UP-SP; and BN standing by itself. (The least we can ask now is for 'BNSF' to name itself "RailWest, Inc." - shorter, descriptive, inclusive. (And, 'NS' should be "North-South" - keep the horse logo and NS reporting marks; "CSX", another monstrosity of a name, should be "Dixie Line Railroad Company"; they even own the old NCStL emblem and the slogan ! But railroads lacked a lot of imagination even in the old days, and have even less today.
Jim Bradley Hawk Mountain Chapter National Railway Historical Society.

[Anonymous]

>>You're all yankees! How about ruling the south
As someone who has lived in both the north, as well as Vinings GA, I'll have to say....*that's* funny as heck....

Slogan: "Servin' Ya'll!!"....=)


Know the difference between a "Yankee" and a "dang yankee"?

A Yankee comes down home, dates your daughter, eats your food, hunts your game, drinks your liquor, then goes the heck back home where he belongs,... A DAng YANKEE comes down home, dates your daughter, eats your food, hunts your game, drinks your liquor, then has his mail forwarded to your house and moves the heck on in!! =)