In the January issue of Trains UP CEO Jim Vena was quoted.. "We're a 70 mph railroad. Not very many are. BN and we are." I would have thought that CN too is in the 70 mph club given CN's relatively simple route structure, easy grades, and long hauls.
Obviously not all of UP's network supports speeds of 70 mph, but how, then, is the speed of a railroad defined.. i.e. is it 75% of routes are 70 mph 75% of time... 50%? Is there a clear definition? And why wouldn't CN qualify?
Just having a specific track speed does not define the REAL speed of the railroad. Having a 70 MPH track segment that has a single unit 15,000 ton train operating upon it - that train will NEVER be able to attain 70 MPH under any circumstance other the running in the 8th notch DOWNHILL, for an extended period of time; any other time the train will be lucky to exceed 25 MPH.
Real railroad speed is defined by how much power is utilized to move how little tonnage. High horsepower and minimal tonnage IS NOT a PSR concept.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
In a way, it's a BS statement. What the track is good for and what speed the trains are being run at, are two different things. It's like designing a highway with easy grades, gradual curves, wide lanes and shoulders, and good lighting. It may be designed for 75mph speeds. However, if it's only two lanes and is congested 24 hours of the day, its realistic speed may be 30mph.
PS-I see Balt and I were typing the same sentiments at the same time.
As I recall, the important measure is not speed, it's velocity. How fast can a car get from point A to point B?
A train may achieve 70 MPH over the road, but if terminal dwell is excessive, the velocity drops off precipitously. A car making a 1000 mile trip has to do it in just over 14 hours to do so at 70 MPH. If it makes the trip in 30 hours, it's doing an average of around 33 MPH, even if part of its trip was at 70 MPH.
And that's the key metric.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
A quick multiuple choice quiz.
Who determines the timetable speed for a given segment of track?
A. The Superintendent
B. The VPO
C. The Roadmaster
D. All of the above.
xrds72A quick multiuple choice quiz. Who determines the timetable speed for a given segment of track? A. The Superintendent B. The VPO C. The Roadmaster
B & C - VPO sets the desired speed, within the physical constraints of the territory in negotiations with the VPM.
Roadmaster has the responsibility to see that the track segment is maintained to the requirements for the speeds the VPO/VPM set.
A sees that the track segment is operated in accordance with the company's operating parameters.
Line of Road is only one segment of the transportation equation.
Most of our trains aren't allowed the 70 mph maximum speed across most of Iowa on the east/west main. The only cars allowed to go 70 mph are intermodal, autoracks, and reefers. Other cars might be allowed 60 or 50 mph depending on construction. Some cars might have a different speed depending on if it's loaded or empty. Then there are other restrictions like Tons per Operative Brake. That can reduce an otherwise 70 mph train to 60 or 50 mph. TPOB restrictions for us are graduated depending on what the number of tons is. Another is throttle notch restrictions. We can't exceed notch 6 over 50 mph. Then there is how many engines you are allowed to use.
The high priority intermodal trains, especially during peak season, are probably the only trains that consistently get close to 70 mph.
Jeff
Isn't there a FRA Class of track that determines the top speed of a segment of track? Does the railroad have to get the FRA to certify this?
MidlandMikeIsn't there a FRA Class of track that determines the top speed of a segment of track? Does the railroad have to get the FRA to certify this?
What FRA Class of track a particular segment of track is classed is a decision that the overall management of the carrier will make. The MofW personnel will then work to see that the track segment is maintained to THAT LEVEL. If location fall below the standards, MofW will issue slow orders until the maintenance level is restored to the standard. The FRA publishes the standards, it is up to the carriers to decide which standard to apply to which track segments.
The FRA will come along and perform inspections periodically, with minimal advance notice.
Please correct me if this is incorrect.
A. On mainlines (perhaps lesser lines) there is to be a weekly inspection performed usually by a "high rail".
B. The inspector will note any deficiencies and advise the dispatchers (and others) of those and apply a rate of speed to be maintained over that deficiency.
C. Slow orders then issued....is this thru PTC, but also communicated to the operating crews?
D. Repairs made and then someone (who?) has authority to bump the slow order or to remove it.
E. In severe cold weather as we are experiencing now, are orders issued to reduce speed?
Thanks,
Ed
BaltACDWhat FRA Class of track a particular segment of track is classed is a decision that the overall management of the carrier will make.
.
I'm sure that the low temperatures that are currently being experienced across much of North America would have a bearing on speed as well.
I understand about speed limitations based on train consist, track curvature, grades etc.. but was asking more in terms of overall speed of the railroad.. i.e. when someone refers to a railroad as a 70 mph railroad then presumably there are specific criteria that must be met to back up that statement. CN has curves, grades, yards, and differing rolling stock too.. yet they aren't in the 70 mph railroad club as they apparently don't meet the criteria.
Those of us who might be driving on I-40 in NM and AZ will have the opportunity to drive parallel with the BNSF southern Transcon and experience the freight trains at 70 MPH.
BigJim BaltACD What FRA Class of track a particular segment of track is classed is a decision that the overall management of the carrier will make. I would think that the Engineering Dept. would be the ones overseeing all of this.
BaltACD What FRA Class of track a particular segment of track is classed is a decision that the overall management of the carrier will make.
I would think that the Engineering Dept. would be the ones overseeing all of this.
It is a decision made with input from all areas of the company - operating, maintenance, finance, legal etc. Each category will voice their pros and cons on what will happen for any given class of the track.
Decision will be based upon traffic being handled (non-time sensitive bulk freight only or passenger service being the extremes). Geographic alignment of the segment. Maintenance effort and expenditures to maintain the track at the designated FRA Class. What is the total financial input of the track segment to the financial health of the company?
As usual, BaltACD gives thoughtful and complete answers. Thank you.
The one clarification I would add is that of the 3 choices, only the Roadmaster is "qualified" under federal regs to determine the speed allowed for a particular piece of track. (There may be a few Sups or VPO's who came up through the track side that maintain their qualifications, but they would be in a minority)
xrds72The one clarification I would add is that of the 3 choices, only the Roadmaster is "qualified" under federal regs to determine the speed allowed for a particular piece of track. (There may be a few Sups or VPO's who came up through the track side that maintain their qualifications, but they would be in a minority)
As has been noted, all three have a piece of setting track speed, which is why I chose "D."
Ulrich I'm sure that the low temperatures that are currently being experienced across much of North America would have a bearing on speed as well. I understand about speed limitations based on train consist, track curvature, grades etc.. but was asking more in terms of overall speed of the railroad.. i.e. when someone refers to a railroad as a 70 mph railroad then presumably there are specific criteria that must be met to back up that statement. CN has curves, grades, yards, and differing rolling stock too.. yet they aren't in the 70 mph railroad club as they apparently don't meet the criteria.
CN's Canadian mainlines are 60 mph track, unless curves or other obstructions create speed restrictions. A lot of northern Ontario and pretty much everything west of Jasper falls into that category. The straight sections could probably turned into 70 mph track fairly easily.
But it doesn't matter, this company isn't interested in speed (CNR - Certainly No Rush). Our throttle restrictions are applicable at all speeds and they'll go as low as notch 4. An empty grain train will do 15 or 20 mph going up hills, no faster than a loaded one. And then there are the delays from waiting for all the other slow trains.
Forget 70, I'd be happy if we could average 30 or 40 mph over the course of a day.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
UlrichIs there a clear definition?
A few years ago, freights weren't allowed 70 mph on Class 4 track -- just 60. Is that still true?
If so, next question is: how much Class 5 track does CN (for instance) have?
But once you've decided how much of the RR is legal for 70 mph, next question is: does the RR authorize lots of its trains to run at 70? If so, is it a blanket authorization? In the past, a RR might say a train could run 70 as long as it didn't need more than Run 5 to do it -- in other words, it was allowed 70 on a long downgrade, like Gallup to Winslow on the Santa Fe, but not in the other direction.
In any case, Vena probably knows better than to think most UP trains are doing 70.
For the week ending Jan. 12, 2024, the UP reports average velocity 21.1 mph.
Train Velocity defined:Measures the time from origin departure until final arrival, including time at intermediate terminals. Calculated by dividing train miles by train hours (mph) for through freight trains.
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