oltmannd Yes. Just hang a left at Cocoa and head up the FEC toward Jax. Stops at Daytona, St. A and Jax at a minimum.
BaltACD rdamon If they build along I-4 for Orlando to Tampa, why not continue to Daytona. Makes sense. Because they have already built from Orlando to Cocoa.
rdamon If they build along I-4 for Orlando to Tampa, why not continue to Daytona. Makes sense.
Makes sense.
Because they have already built from Orlando to Cocoa.
Yes. Just hang a left at Cocoa and head up the FEC toward Jax. Stops at Daytona, St. A and Jax at a minimum.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Overmod rdamon If they build along I-4 for Orlando to Tampa, why not continue to Daytona. Why would they short-route their own very expensive mainline just to go from Orlando to Daytona, still needing to go on the same railroad up from Cocoa to get to something really valuable like Jacksonville? Look at the distance from Cocoa north to Daytona... on a route, remember, that Brightline has had the passenger option on since the beginning... and compare that with a high-speed main all the way from Orlando up there. Then look at the distance from Daytona to Jacksonville... Crayonistas would probably be better served with a line from Jacksonville to Orlando, but even there you'd have to consider the economics of going to Jacksonville to Orlando by way of Cocoa (incidentally serving the Daytona area on the way...) Makes sense.
rdamon If they build along I-4 for Orlando to Tampa, why not continue to Daytona.
Why would they short-route their own very expensive mainline just to go from Orlando to Daytona, still needing to go on the same railroad up from Cocoa to get to something really valuable like Jacksonville?
Look at the distance from Cocoa north to Daytona... on a route, remember, that Brightline has had the passenger option on since the beginning... and compare that with a high-speed main all the way from Orlando up there.
Then look at the distance from Daytona to Jacksonville...
Crayonistas would probably be better served with a line from Jacksonville to Orlando, but even there you'd have to consider the economics of going to Jacksonville to Orlando by way of Cocoa (incidentally serving the Daytona area on the way...)
[/quote]
Two things...
"Crayonistas" - I'm stealing that!
Brightline has passenger franchise/rights on FEC from Cocoa to Jax, so... That $0.5M is probably to "study" the route. There are really two alternatives for Jax to Orlando. The CSX line and FEC. The FEC route gets you St. A, Palm Coast, Flagler Beach and Daytona. The CSX route gets you Green Cove (Jax suburb), Palatka and the northern Orlando suburbs (Sunrail territory) The FEC route is almost dead straight and level. The CSX route is a bit more wiggly. The CSX route has almost no freight traffic. The FEC route has a half dozen or less freight each way.
Study away! Brightline will get there first...
Item #1 of course goes nowhere near following I-4 toward Daytona; it might most likely involve upgrading the route from Jacksonville to a prospective terminal location for the Auto-Train and thence to Orlando.
Any service to Miami not provided by idiots would then follow Brightline across to Cocoa and then south to Miami on high-speed track already built and paid for.
Alternative #2 is obviously for the Brightline extension already in the works for Tampa. Why turn down OPM to get the result they'd be willing to self-finance? The only alternative view would be to make improvements to the existing somewhat-rickety route from Orlando down to Tampa/St. Pete... while Brightline arranges for a higher-speed version to follow when the real-estate development justifies it more completely.
Since the grant amounts are consultant chicken feed, you should identify who the 'corridor sponsors' are, and what their priorities might be.
What was in the recent grant announcement
Jacksonville-Orlando-Miami Corridor (Up to $500,000) Florida Department of Transportation
The proposed corridor would connect Jacksonville, Orlando, and Miami, FL. The proposed corridor would provide new or enhanced service on one or more existing alignments. The corridor sponsor would enter Step 1 of the program to develop a scope, schedule, and cost estimate for preparing, completing, or documenting its service development plan.
Miami-Orlando-Tampa Corridor (Up to $500,000) Florida Department of Transportation
The proposed corridor would connect Miami, Orlando, and Tampa, FL. The proposed corridor would provide new or enhanced service on one or more existing alignments, and potentially a new alignment between Orlando International Airport and Tampa. The corridor sponsor would enter Step 1 of the program to develop a scope, schedule, and cost estimate for preparing, completing, or documenting its service development plan.
rdamonIf they build along I-4 for Orlando to Tampa, why not continue to Daytona.
rdamonIf they build along I-4 for Orlando to Tampa, why not continue to Daytona. Makes sense.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
If they build along I-4 for Orlando to Tampa, why not continue to Daytona.
BaltACDTo my mind and understanding, Brightline will be building a right of way out of face between Orlando and Tampa, be that single or double tracked and at what cost?
I would also assume its construction would be timed to leverage real-estate development on the Florida West Coast, whether or not Fortress and Edens are impressed by nominal above-the-rail profitability of Brightline trains.
What might be interesting is the possibility -- now that the trains are nominally showing profitability -- that some Brightline equipment might in fact operate over the trackage rights to Jacksonville, probably at modest speeds compatible with freight traffic, before significant investment is made in higher-speed right-of-way. The counter-argument is that much of the prospective Jacksonville traffic might better be handled in full-luxury motor coaches connecting at Cocoa (or even Orlando!) until demand warranting full trains is demonstrated...
rdamon BaltACD oltmannd The "walk before you can run" solution might be a bus connection to/from Jax to/from the proposed Treasure Coast station (or how about one at Cocoa?) The FEC exists between Cocoa and Jacksonville. It is not like Brightline needs to build a route from scratch. Costs??????? FEC double tracked north of Cocoa a few miles to connect to the end of the 2MT to have 2MT from JAX-MIA at the same time as the Brightline build to Orlando
BaltACD oltmannd The "walk before you can run" solution might be a bus connection to/from Jax to/from the proposed Treasure Coast station (or how about one at Cocoa?) The FEC exists between Cocoa and Jacksonville. It is not like Brightline needs to build a route from scratch. Costs???????
oltmannd The "walk before you can run" solution might be a bus connection to/from Jax to/from the proposed Treasure Coast station (or how about one at Cocoa?)
The FEC exists between Cocoa and Jacksonville. It is not like Brightline needs to build a route from scratch. Costs???????
FEC double tracked north of Cocoa a few miles to connect to the end of the 2MT to have 2MT from JAX-MIA at the same time as the Brightline build to Orlando
South of Bowden Yard Jacksonville the FEC is a nominally single track railroad down to the neighborhood of Daytona Beach. (at least from the pictures Bob Pickering posts on https://www.railpictures.net/
To my mind and understanding, Brightline will be building a right of way out of face between Orlando and Tampa, be that single or double tracked and at what cost?
oltmanndThe "walk before you can run" solution might be a bus connection to/from Jax to/from the proposed Treasure Coast station (or how about one at Cocoa?)
The "walk before you can run" solution might be a bus connection to/from Jax to/from the proposed Treasure Coast station (or how about one at Cocoa?)
For a bit more color....there is discussion about commuter rail from Jax to St. Augustine currently happening.
https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/43572ee892264d9aa1df6dc1c72e6a24
MidlandMike Brightline said in the article: "As for Jacksonville, we do have the passenger easement all the way up along the Florida East Coast rail to Jacksonville," Mitzner said. But, she added, it's not in the current plans. "The next logical step is Tampa, and then we'll look at future plans." Brightline is interested in serving expensive places like Orlando, Tampa, and the Gold Coast. Jacksonville does not seem to fit that business plan.
Brightline said in the article:
"As for Jacksonville, we do have the passenger easement all the way up along the Florida East Coast rail to Jacksonville," Mitzner said.
But, she added, it's not in the current plans.
"The next logical step is Tampa, and then we'll look at future plans."
Brightline is interested in serving expensive places like Orlando, Tampa, and the Gold Coast. Jacksonville does not seem to fit that business plan.
It's going to depend how much land FEC/Fortress still own between Jax and Cocoa. Lots of market to serve. The coast from Jacksonville to Cocoa is pretty populated.
charlie hebdo Shouldn't this thread be on the Passenger train forum?
Shouldn't this thread be on the Passenger train forum?
OK I was trying to keep everyone happy. The last time I posted Brightline on the Passenger Train Forum someone complained that the Forum was for Amtrak only......lol.
A 68-mile extension Cocoa to Daytona Beach could generate a lot of traffic.
They certainly should combine the Transit and Passenger topics.
Backshop For how few postings there are on the entire Trains Forum, they could all be combined into one, like the Classic Trains one.
For how few postings there are on the entire Trains Forum, they could all be combined into one, like the Classic Trains one.
Great idea! Or maybe two, Current Railroading and Past?
It's certainly do-able. If Brightline thinks there's a market for Jacksonville service it'll probably happen sometime.
Well, first time I read about anyone from Brightline implying that Jacksonville might be a destination of the future............
https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/local/trip-orlando-miami-on-brightline-train/77-5f1dc4a1-ddb5-4c57-a48f-3df733e2d063?fbclid=IwAR08iUdBvw5KwJQq7unTqq7AEH1KGkHLMYDhu2IKJFEOkp3O6aKkb4ZIn4c
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.