In 2021, the last year of data available, 26.9 pounds of bananas were made available to each man, woman and child in the US. (USDA data) There is no significant banana production is the US.
~13% of these "Giant Herbs" Are brought in by boat through Gulfport, MS. I tried hard to get some of these loads on the ICG. The potential customers were quite willing to try our service. The barrier to this market developement was internal resistance from our own bureaucracies.
Don't know anything about Gulfport and their bananas.
United Fruit use to have a dedicated pier at Locust Point in Baltimore. During the 40's, 50's and early 60's the B&O was noted for running Banana Specials out of Locust Point to various locations in the West.
When I was ATM at Locust Point in the middle 70's there were no longer any rail shipment of banans, however in the wee hours of the morning the road from Hanover Street down the street to the Fruit Pier would have reefer trucks parked on both sides of the street awaiting the arrival of the United Fruit boat from the Caribbean to unload and make the truk cargos available.
When I go to the store, if the banans are green enough, I will buy 4. If I get any more than 4, by the 5th day they will be too ripe for my personal taste.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The hot train on the NYC Adirondack Division for many years was the "banana train." I'm certain it was a perishables train, but the name would indicate that bananas were involved.
The train ran all the way up the line from Utica to Montreal.
I have no idea where the bananas (or the train itself) originated. Being the Central, I'd guess New York Harbor.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like bananas.
Julius Henry Marx (Groucho)
Gulfport, MS is an interesting setup.
The port is just two huge quays built out in to the Gulf of Mexico, open to the sea except for two tiny barrier islands for some modicum of natural protection.
Here are the map coordinates and you can see for yourself. Copy and paste them into Google:
(30.3546584, -89.0938904)
kgbw49Gulfport, MS is an interesting setup. The port is just two huge quays built out in to the Gulf of Mexico, open to the sea except for two tiny barrier islands for some modicum of natural protection. Here are the map coordinates and you can see for yourself. Copy and paste them into Google: (30.3546584, -89.0938904)
Looks as if tracks that served Chiquita have been severed from the lead that is serving the area.
While in grad school in NYC around 1963, I was interviewed for a summer job by the NYC System Supervisor, Tom Kelly. While waiting for him to get off the phone in his office high above GCT, his phone conversation went something like this: "If you don't find that car of bananas by tonight, you will find it tomorrow with your nose," and he slammed down the phone. The job was to walk every spur on every line to record NYC's missing cars.
BaltACD, if one zooms over to the large warehouse buiding on the west side of the quay, you can see a railspur that is inlaid with concrete panels that heads in to the actual Chiquita Brands Loading Warehouse.
I'd expect that spur to probably not in use for the intermodal service, of course.
But on the east side of that quay, one can see another spur inlaid with concrete panels running down along the container terminal area almost all the way to the south end of the quay.
Perhaps that might be in use for the intermodal service?
One other interesting viewing feature: I know CPKC owns the line into Gulfport and CN has trackage rights.
If one follows the line up to the north you'll come across a small engine terminal which looks to have four SD40-2s and three GP38-2s parked on the terminal tracks (or stabled as our Australian friends say). It is hard to tell what their paint jobs are, but it looks like they might be leased former SP as they seem to have red noses and gray cabs and bodies.
Having grown up in Memphis,Tn. and started trucking there; Much of the GREEN Bananas off of the Gulf Coast ports went thru our area. The usual trade talk,in the refrigerated trucking business was ":...Meat South and Bananas Morth..."
Gulfoport was a major access point to the produce % ( green bananas); the other ports, not nearly AS 'heavy' for the 'monkey pickles'; as Gulfport seemed to be at that time. Chiquita (brand) was popular around the Mid-South then. there were others, but all the grocery wholesalers seemed to receive them for their distribution.
I know the topic on this Thread is the green bananabusiness, but I think that it is interesting to note that post WWII, The Illinois Central ran solid trains of those bananas North. In fact, the ICRR maintained a major refrigerated car icing facility at Soutuh Fulton, Ky. At that time, most of those northboundf trains ran the line (Mississippi Hill Country line) North from Jackson, thru Grenada, to Jackson,Tn snd into South Fulton (Ie: That routing was still very, active during those times)
It might be of interest to note also; Out of the South Louisiana (Hamond,La., particularly) area. The Illinois Central via its numerous northbound passenger trains; hauled,in their season, load after load, of fresh strawberries.
They were loaded into baggage cars; and rushed north on fast schedules. Many trains wqould arrive at the Memphis Central Train Station, many with multiple baggage cars of those freah strawberries.... AMAZING....THESE DAYS, Most likely, no way....
In 1967 I worked for The ICRR in Gulfport as a Switchman (had to cover Hattiesburg too). I was young and single and did not like the extra board or the once in a while drive to Hattiesburg for a single days pay, I do remember the banana trains, one would leave Gulfport around midnight, not solid bananas but mostly refers. At that time Gulfport had four yard engines working, the two oclock job would work the port and pull the bananas and re-spot emptys, the eleven PM job would work the port too, for other business.
greyhounds The barrier to this market developement was internal resistance from our own [ICG] bureaucracies.
timzWhy did they resist?
Sad. Unless the top brass exhibits true buy in for a plan, it goes down in flames.
Bad form mentioning people's names who can't do a rebuttal. There are two sides to every story.
BackshopBad form mentioning people's names who can't do a rebuttal. There are two sides to every story.
Once again I have upset Backshop. I wrote things as they happened. If Backshop doesn't like that I don't care.
The same attitude as what Mark Cane expressed in "Against All Odds". The railroads in the mid to late 70s seemed to run trains. It later evolved, perhaps not enough, to providing transportation service. There is a big difference.
BTW, I am currently reading "The Box" subtitled "How the Shipping Container Macde the World Smaller and the World Economy Bigger." The book (I am early...right now Malcom McLean - Sea Land and Matson Lines are starting container service). Pretty good book.
Lets hope CN can make good progress with that service.
Ed
Backshop Bad form mentioning people's names who can't do a rebuttal. There are two sides to every story.
There goes every biography ever written after the subject's death...
MP173The same attitude as what Mark Cane expressed in "Against All Odds". The railroads in the mid to late 70s seemed to run trains. It later evolved, perhaps not enough, to providing transportation service. There is a big difference. BTW, I am currently reading "The Box" subtitled "How the Shipping Container Macde the World Smaller and the World Economy Bigger." The book (I am early...right now Malcom McLean - Sea Land and Matson Lines are starting container service). Pretty good book. Lets hope CN can make good progress with that service. Ed
One thing to remember - Staggers wasn't enacted until 1980. Railroad managements in the pre-Staggers era under the ICC regulations were routinely brow beaten for any inovative ideas that were brought into the game and heaven forbid that efforts be made to be truck competitive in any product lines.
Pre-Staggers railroad management only knew how to operate railroads, they did not know how to run a transportation business, since the ICC virtually eliminated business from its opressive oversight of the industry.
After Staggers it took some time for Managements to feel out the limits of the new deregulated business enviornment.
greyhounds Backshop Bad form mentioning people's names who can't do a rebuttal. There are two sides to every story. Once again I have upset Backshop. I wrote things as they happened. If Backshop doesn't like that I don't care.
Backshop greyhounds Backshop Bad form mentioning people's names who can't do a rebuttal. There are two sides to every story. Actually, I still come here for your entertainment value. You always have something to say that's unintentionally funny. You're a genius in your own mind. Too bad that no one you worked with thought the same.
greyhounds
Actually, I still come here for your entertainment value. You always have something to say that's unintentionally funny. You're a genius in your own mind. Too bad that no one you worked with thought the same.
History, is a very personal topic....Some people write books about events, mundane and historical. The relation of 'history' when written by an actual observer, or of events witnessed on the perifiery is, to many of us, real,and facinating.
Greyhounds, relation to the stories, he has related here, is certainly, opinion, and a personal observational assessment of those related events, and individuals. It gives the observer a window into those times and behaviors behind the events.events.
During my high school years, via the ppersonal relationship of a former rr management type, who had just (SL_SF) retired from 30+ years with a reilroad. And also, with employees of another line there; I was able to meet, and personally observe, on rr properties, employee and personal behaviors (thoughtS/&ideas(?) .
They seem to validate the personality tyoes, mentioned by greyhounds, of course on a differen kevel, but nevertheless, similar personality thoughit processes.
We are fortunate, around here, to have individuals, who have experienced the good, the bad, and the ugly sides, of not only railroading; but other businesse experiences, as well.
BaltACD One thing to remember - Staggers wasn't enacted until 1980. Railroad managements in the pre-Staggers era under the ICC regulations were routinely brow beaten for any inovative ideas that were brought into the game and heaven forbid that efforts be made to be truck competitive in any product lines. Pre-Staggers railroad management only knew how to operate railroads, they did not know how to run a transportation business, since the ICC virtually eliminated business from its opressive oversight of the industry.
The situation that proves this is the Big John rate case. It took Southern several years and multiple trips to Federal court to be allowed to charge lower rates which were geared to reduced costs.
BackshopBad form mentioning people's names who can't do a rebuttal.
timz Backshop Bad form mentioning people's names who can't do a rebuttal. Because the namee is dead, you mean? So no one is allowed to say Civil War general so-and-so made a mistake in such-and-such battle?
Backshop Bad form mentioning people's names who can't do a rebuttal.
Because the namee is dead, you mean? So no one is allowed to say Civil War general so-and-so made a mistake in such-and-such battle?
Deeds of the dead survive their demise. Thus the dead can always be challenged.
Hear, hear!
A few things need to be kept in mind about railroad regulation prior to Staggers. Regulation did not occur in a vacuum, there was a strong public push for it over the years that led to railroads being regulated quite tightly like a public utility. Such regulation discouraged and inhibited regulation, see my prior post. Note that TOFC was first developed on an interurban, which was outside the jurisdiction of the ICC.
BaltACD timz Backshop Bad form mentioning people's names who can't do a rebuttal. Because the namee is dead, you mean? So no one is allowed to say Civil War general so-and-so made a mistake in such-and-such battle? Deeds of the dead survive their demise. Thus the dead can always be challenged.
Balt, that is an eloquent turn of phrase that one would find in an Edgar Allen Poe novel or a Philip Marlowe movie.
Well played, good sir! Well played indeed!
The difference is that biographers and historians have names and can be challenged. Who is "greyhounds"? Just an anonymouse poster.
Backshop The difference is that biographers and historians have names and can be challenged. Who is "greyhounds"? Just an anonymouse poster.
Both (Ken) Greyhounds and Don Oltmann have similar POVs concerning railroad management resistance to change and innovation, though coming from experience in different departments and railroads. Such a congruence tend to increase the validity of the observations. Additionally, Greyhounds gives detailed, vivid descriptions of interchanges in which he was a participant, which is more valuable than second hand generalities. Thanks!
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