1 Year Later: Improved Communications Between CSX & The Community

[Anonymous]

You can talk about track circuits and salt and communications and snow removal and...and...all day long, but it all boils down to public responsibility when driving (or walking or riding a two-wheeler) on a public highway. Every lousy driver (or the remaining family and lawyer) wants the resulting cra***o have been someone else's fault. One story I heard was that Mr. O'Conner drove around a standing line of cars at the Winton Road crossing that day. If true, he was CLEARLY in the wrong.

Without regard to that, our entire public attitude about driving skill and habits is long overdue for an overhaul. Defensive driving practices would save nearly every life lost at highway/rail grade crossings.

Don't forget that the crew had already stopped for other "stop & protect" orders previous to the crash and that the CSX dispatcher bulletins listing such orders DO NOT list events as they occur in milepost order as the former NORAC (Conrail) bulletins did. Even a seasoned crew could miss a stray order appearing over the fold on the next page. Seems odd that NS sees fit to continue using the NORAC style layout of their bulletins.

CSX may be improving communication with the public, but communication with its own crews still remains lacking...remember, communication is a two-way affair..which doesn't happen much at CSX.

[daveklepper]

An expensive solution is concrete slab track at crossings. This keeps the road in alignment with the rails, prevents a lot of salt water shunting the circuit between the rails, and should be a permanent cure. It is, however, expensive.

Note that the normal condition in winter of some salt water shunting the circuit need not be a problem, if the resistance through the salt water path is much greater than the resistance through a wheel set, which I would guess is pretty low, pehaps even less than one ohm. But then there is the problem of mutliple crossings on the same track circuit.

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSXrules4eva

I agree if they want to clear the road that goes over the tracks they need to take into condiseration what happened here. Railroad X ing equipment needs to be 100 percent reliable to motorist and train crews. Espually, motorists since many of them don't have common sence when it comes to grade Xings. If they have to maintain that equipment by putting salt and plowing the xing by hand that is what must be done.
BUT, unfortunitly CSX isn't going to want to shovel and salt the Xing by hand. Here are some reasons why : 1 The railroad doesn't want to be resoponsible if a train comes thru the Xing and one of the hired shovelers and salters gets struck by a train. 2 they don't want a "simple" thing like taking time to put salt and shovel the Xing causeing extra delays to their trains. 3 CSX doesn't want to pay the workers or the people they hired just to put salt down and such. All of this would cost CSX money!!!!!!! They don't want to lose that.

CSX and the other Class I's barely have enough roadway personnel to keep their critical switches operating during periods of ice and snow to even worry about clearing road crossings by hand, especially when a train does the job from the railroad stand point.

Remember, in probably 98% of all road crossings, the local mucipality had to get an easment to cross the railroads private property with the road, that being the case, it is the mucipalities responsibility to clear their own way over the crossing and not impinge upon the rights of the railroad to operate the property as the railroad sees fit....operating trains.

[Richard A]

QUOTE: The conventional track circuit technology isn't going to change, and it effects signals as well as road crossings. The conventional salting of roads isn't going to change either.

Given that this is probably true, expecially for the next several years (decades?), it would seem something else has to be done. Remember, even if direct salting of the grade crossing is totally eliminated, salt and saline liquid will still find its way onto and into grade crossing cracks, openings, etc. as road traffic crosses the tracks. And winters can be very long up here along the Lake Ontario shore. Many weeks can pass without an extended thaw.

I think the near-term solution has to lie in just what CSX and the community are doing, i.e. - improving communications and education (for both sides).

[daveklepper]

The conventional track circuit technology isn't going to change, and it effects signals as well as road crossings. The conventional salting of roads isn't going to change either. It would appear the best solution is assure excellent drainage at all road crossings so salt infection of the ballast won't build up to the extent that a problem is caused. If drainage is good, the amount of salt should be held to tolerable limites, with the shunting resistance high compared to a wheel set. At the same time, highway departments have to control the situation so that repeatged resalting doesn't occur and that more than normal salt is not used on crossings.

Anyway, that is my opinion for what it is worth to you.

[CSXrules4eva]

I agree if they want to clear the road that goes over the tracks they need to take into condiseration what happened here. Railroad X ing equipment needs to be 100 percent reliable to motorist and train crews. Espually, motorists since many of them don't have common sence when it comes to grade Xings. If they have to maintain that equipment by putting salt and plowing the xing by hand that is what must be done.
BUT, unfortunitly CSX isn't going to want to shovel and salt the Xing by hand. Here are some reasons why : 1 The railroad doesn't want to be resoponsible if a train comes thru the Xing and one of the hired shovelers and salters gets struck by a train. 2 they don't want a "simple" thing like taking time to put salt and shovel the Xing causeing extra delays to their trains. 3 CSX doesn't want to pay the workers or the people they hired just to put salt down and such. All of this would cost CSX money!!!!!!! They don't want to lose that.

[Puckdropper]

Rather than salting and plowing with a truck, why not do railroad crossings by hand? If you can get there before cars do, the snow often comes off really easily. If it's icy, you can apply some salt by hand, not by having the truck scatter it all over.

It works well on my driveway. 90% of the stuff we get is snow and not ice so it's as simple as pushing or snow-blowing the snow off. Crews can also clear off the snow on the side of the lane over the rails to make sure it doesn't freeze and derail the train. A little more work for potentially huge results.

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Richard A

Read the story at this link first
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050129/NEWS01/501290332

Of note is the sharing of current maps and map upgrades of grade crossings, roads, and tracks.

One of the hardest things to occur between railroads and communities is the communication of where THERE is.

Local Police refer to their location in the 'Hunderd Block' of a particular street. Railroads refer to their locations by the Milepost on a particular Sub-division. Hundred Block and Milepost are apples and oranges. Secondly, when the 911 operator tells the railroad...."It's down by the Kwik-Mart", the railroad has no idea of where the Kwik-Mart is.

CSX and most of the other railroads have implemented the practice of affixing a plate at each road crossing that bears the crossings DOT crossing number; the plate is normally affixed to the stantion holding up the cross-bucks on each side of the crossing. When communicating with Local authorities it is sometimes verry difficult to get the locals to communicate that DOT crossing number (which is unique for EVERY road corssing for all railroads in the US). The locals want to give the railroads every kind of information but what is necessary to detirming where THERE is.

Each second that is lost when trying to find out whereTHERE is, brings a train that much closer to cleaning the vehicle off the crossing, with extreme prejudice.

[Richard A]

Read the story at this link first
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050129/NEWS01/501290332

The deaths of the couple a year ago was tragic and the loss is still felt by the community. But the improved communications, while no where near as good as it can or should be, between CSX and New York State, Monroe County and the Greater Rochester community is encouraging.

Some interesting questions have surfaced or resurfaced, i.e - What is the impact of road salt on grade crossing warning systems? What are the factors that contribute to grade crossing safety? And who has responsibiity for what?

Of note is the sharing of current maps and map upgrades of grade crossings, roads, and tracks.