54light15I have no recollection of how my father was notified that the package was there.
In a small town, the station agent would call the person to tell them their parcel was in. In a big city, an REA delivery van or truck would deliver it just like UPS does today.
CMStPnP Also, will point out REA single handedly lost one of the most important prototypes of the developing computer age, with an early Microsoft OS? Lost while shipping via REA.
Also, will point out REA single handedly lost one of the most important prototypes of the developing computer age, with an early Microsoft OS? Lost while shipping via REA.
It was the prototype Altair 8800 from MITS that was being shipped to Popular Electronics. The article in the January 1975 issue of PopTronics had a brief mention of the first prototype going awol on REA just before REA went out of business.
Bill Gates and Paul Allen did not even start writing the BASIC interpreter for the 8800 until after the Popular Electronics issue hit the news stands. FWIW, there were a few -um- interesting legal maneuvers over the agreement between MITS and what was to become MS in regards to that BASIC interpreter. FWIW, what became MS-DOS was product of Seattle Computer Products.
Cotton Belt MP104Usually when one rises to the level (of incompetence) “over their head”, either color them gone OR if they are a relative (adopted or blood kin), another job is created and there is a lateral reassignment, NOT up the ladder.
Can't forget Peter's "percussive sublimation." Better known a "getting kicked upstairs..."
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
CMStPnP azrail 1975-REA shuts down-due to a recession and labor troubles.UPS picks up many of the REA routes. I noticed that timeline is somewhat selectively edited and you neglected to mention the part about railroads starting to lose interest as far back as the 1940's-1950's because REA traffic was considered dead end traffic. Perhaps that was an oversight or deemed not relevant to your response. However, I believe the quoted part above is a management statement but I don't have time to look it up. What is relevant to 1975 and missing from your timeline is how long they had been losing money up until that point. I believe wikipedia states "hand over fist" for years. So in my view, thats more management than Unions and a very important factor. While it is true that management may have approached Unions for a cut of some kind towards the end. It's really their choice to say yes or no based on past management of the company. Given the financial performance of the company prior to 1975 and apparent lack of any successful action previous to address that issue. If I were in a union for REA I would have voted no to any cuts more than likely. So I do not understand at all the earlier post that unions did in the company. Why would I? Status quo seems to be OK with management. Also on the wikipedia timeline, it just seems to me to be slightly biased in the fact it seems to point to the fact that the company was victimized by changing times and that the Feds rejected their agreement with the airlines. Going to have to take issue with that. The company could have declared bankruptcy a long time before 1975 and filed a decent reorganization plan. They neglected to do so. Sorry if that sounds harsh but to me reading their history it just did not seem like they were all that aggressive to survive. Also, will point out REA single handedly lost one of the most important prototypes of the developing computer age, with an early Microsoft OS? Lost while shipping via REA. In comparison, Milwaukee Road management blamed it's bankruptcy on a severe winter as well as a recession at the time. While that might have pushed it over the brink and was an immediate issue, most know really it was railroad management.
azrail 1975-REA shuts down-due to a recession and labor troubles.UPS picks up many of the REA routes.
I noticed that timeline is somewhat selectively edited and you neglected to mention the part about railroads starting to lose interest as far back as the 1940's-1950's because REA traffic was considered dead end traffic. Perhaps that was an oversight or deemed not relevant to your response.
However, I believe the quoted part above is a management statement but I don't have time to look it up. What is relevant to 1975 and missing from your timeline is how long they had been losing money up until that point. I believe wikipedia states "hand over fist" for years. So in my view, thats more management than Unions and a very important factor. While it is true that management may have approached Unions for a cut of some kind towards the end. It's really their choice to say yes or no based on past management of the company. Given the financial performance of the company prior to 1975 and apparent lack of any successful action previous to address that issue. If I were in a union for REA I would have voted no to any cuts more than likely. So I do not understand at all the earlier post that unions did in the company. Why would I? Status quo seems to be OK with management.
Also on the wikipedia timeline, it just seems to me to be slightly biased in the fact it seems to point to the fact that the company was victimized by changing times and that the Feds rejected their agreement with the airlines. Going to have to take issue with that. The company could have declared bankruptcy a long time before 1975 and filed a decent reorganization plan. They neglected to do so. Sorry if that sounds harsh but to me reading their history it just did not seem like they were all that aggressive to survive.
In comparison, Milwaukee Road management blamed it's bankruptcy on a severe winter as well as a recession at the time. While that might have pushed it over the brink and was an immediate issue, most know really it was railroad management.
Thanks for the rest of the story.
azrail1975-REA shuts down-due to a recession and labor troubles.UPS picks up many of the REA routes.
1917-when the Federal Gov't took over the railroads, it also took over the 4 express companies-Wells Fargo, Adams, American Express, and Southern Express. They were combined into American Railway Express.
1925-ARE turned over to ownership by the various railroads..renamed Railway Express Agency.
1959-REA recvd permission to use any mode of transportation to move packages-rail shipment decreases.
1960-REA renamed itself to "REA Express". The various member RRs began to pull out of REA during the 60s-by the early 70s the companies management buys all of REA.
1975-REA shuts down-due to a recession and labor troubles.UPS picks up many of the REA routes.
OvermodThe initial consolidation of express into the "Railway Express Agency" was, if I remember correctly, related to Federal Control in WWI and the aftermath.
REA was created by the Federal Government prior or during WWI from four private express companies. It was a nationalization that was never undone after the war. Also, I believe the railroads pulled the financial support plug on it as well later towards the end as they did not see that it was profitable and I think that happened in the 1950's or before. So it really ceased to have railroad sponsorship before most of the mass abandonments of passenger trains.
One should just be happy that the History Channel actually had programming that had the appearance of history. Even if most of the current HC documentaries are sometimes a bit "loose" with the actual facts and history.
Jeff
blue streak 1 I can remember catalog prices with notation/ Prices slightly higher Denver and west. What was that?
I can remember catalog prices with notation/ Prices slightly higher Denver and west. What was that?
Probably dates to time when most manufacturing was done in the east, thus reflecting higher shipping costs...
Overmod wjstix It did briefly mention Wells Fargo, but only as a bank that had stagecoaches to transport its gold and cash. That is pretty funny. Even the original service expansion (after that famous quote by Harnden in the early 1840s about express service to the Rockies) was in secure transport of high-value express. In fact Wells and Fargo were initially involved in American Express, and only when that company decided not to prioritize service between the developed eastern and midwestern United States and gold-rush California did they set up their own company -- which was involved in "banking" to the extent of securely transporting gold dust, nuggets, etc. from the West Coast, but which by 1866 had acquired by far the latgest fleet of stagecoaches and stage lines anywhere in the world. I was a bit confused when they said UPS trucks were brown because they copied Pullman passenger cars - which I think were "Pullman green"? I'd be confused too, because I think it was USPS trucks that used to be dark olive or Pullman green. (So were REA's but I think it's already been noted that REA or other railroad express "lines" got little if any mention...) The initial consolidation of express into the "Railway Express Agency" was, if I remember correctly, related to Federal Control in WWI and the aftermath.
wjstix It did briefly mention Wells Fargo, but only as a bank that had stagecoaches to transport its gold and cash.
That is pretty funny. Even the original service expansion (after that famous quote by Harnden in the early 1840s about express service to the Rockies) was in secure transport of high-value express. In fact Wells and Fargo were initially involved in American Express, and only when that company decided not to prioritize service between the developed eastern and midwestern United States and gold-rush California did they set up their own company -- which was involved in "banking" to the extent of securely transporting gold dust, nuggets, etc. from the West Coast, but which by 1866 had acquired by far the latgest fleet of stagecoaches and stage lines anywhere in the world.
I was a bit confused when they said UPS trucks were brown because they copied Pullman passenger cars - which I think were "Pullman green"?
I'd be confused too, because I think it was USPS trucks that used to be dark olive or Pullman green. (So were REA's but I think it's already been noted that REA or other railroad express "lines" got little if any mention...)
The initial consolidation of express into the "Railway Express Agency" was, if I remember correctly, related to Federal Control in WWI and the aftermath.
And nowadays Wells Fargo has gone on to be involved in identity theft cases.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/phony-bank-accounts-resurface-wells-fargo-twist-rcna98005
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
wjstixIt did briefly mention Wells Fargo, but only as a bank that had stagecoaches to transport its gold and cash.
I recall in the early 60s the green REA trucks in my town of Amityville, NY. We once went to the freight house at the station to pick up a package that was my brother's .22 rifle. Both the station and freight house were torn down when they elevated the tracks in about 1968. I have no recollection of how my father was notified that the package was there. Maybe a postcard? And remember those? Tan cards with Abe Lincoln's profile printed on them.
It did briefly mention Wells Fargo, but only as a bank that had stagecoaches to transport it's gold and cash.
[quote user="BaltACD"]
tree68 For a number of years, it was - if you just wanted to send it, USPS. If you were in a hurry, UPS, and if you were really in a hurry, FedEx.
And now a days it seems - shipments in many cases start out on UPS or FedEx and move cross country to have the final miles handed over to USPS.
Also Amazon. Wife recently ordered a small item from Amazon (package) and it was delivered to our house by US Postal Service.
In the early ' 70s I used to take the train from DC area to Texas and back for college, via Kansas City or NOL, but used to ship my bicycle each time by Greyhound. Had to be boxed, but they even provided the box.
BaltACD Where does Cowan stand within the trucking world? After CSX moved its Dispatching and Divisional offices from a building they had occupied for over 40 years Cowan trucking moved into the space.
Where does Cowan stand within the trucking world?
After CSX moved its Dispatching and Divisional offices from a building they had occupied for over 40 years Cowan trucking moved into the space.
azrailEven by the end of the 60s..most of REA's shipments went by truck and air, not rail.
The regular, and frequent, station stops that made REA by rail work were history.
Speaking of sending packages by bus, there was an interesting wrinkle to the process. Back in the 1960's when I was working in New Orleans, we used to send and receive parts frequently by bus between our office and Baton Rouge. Occasionally, if we needed to send paperwork in a hurry, we'd send it by bus, but we learned that it was cheaper to send it in a box than an envelop. It was light enough that it was the minimum charge either way, but postal regulations required that the envelop had to have a stamp on it even though the postal service never touched it.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Even by the end of the 60s..most of REA's shipments went by truck and air, not rail
Most commercial airlines offer some sort of express package service as well.
https://www.deltacargo.com/Cargo/catalog/products/Dash
jeffhergert On another forum, a poster said Old Dominion may be having problems, but did not elaborate. Another did say that OD is liked in the investment community, enough that their stock is going for top dollar. Maybe too much top dollar? Jeff
On another forum, a poster said Old Dominion may be having problems, but did not elaborate. Another did say that OD is liked in the investment community, enough that their stock is going for top dollar. Maybe too much top dollar?
A 10K investment in Old Dominion in 1996 would be worth about $3.4 million today.. so i can understand why some investors are happy with it. Today it appears to be a tad overpriced but still a relatively decent stock I think.
Old Dominion has done a good job of branding itself.. which is very important in trucking as most carriers are regarded as pretty much all the same.. The branding has allowed them to price their services a little more aggressively than some of their competitors which shows up in their relatively low OR.
I haven't heard anything about them having problems.. at least nothing that would be out of the ordinary.
UlrichNo one here has yet mentioned Amtrak Express shipping.. or maybe i missed it. Wouldn't that service be comparable to the old REA service? According to the Amtrak website they take shipments up to 500 lbs.. small LTL.
To my knowledge this is unrelated to the Amtrak service with MHCs (the infamous 'material handling car' boxcars on high-speed trucks in the '90s) -- those were loaded with typical M&E, and I don't think they were easily accessed for small express or even 'enroute' LTL as opposed to being switched out for heavier unloading/loading.
One of the points of REA was that it was a last-mile delivery service, with those green-and-red trucks, and one of the things that killed it was that the delivery model involved distribution via passenger-railroad baggage service. The thing that really put the kibosh on REA (in the pre-deregulation era) was the Post Office taking their subsidy off RPOs and mail trains -- even where passenger service was retained, the lack of baggage handling by the train crew at intermediate stops was profound.
I remember REA really trying in the early '70s -- they changed their logo to one of the more delightful ones for those last couple of years, but you now almost can't find it. They tried to chase the UPS model, essentially by having the same plethora of independent locations served by LTL cross-docking, but never developed any sort of skill at that (at least none that I could see) and unsurprisingly lost meaningful market share to Brown.
Had the company limped along until deregulation, there might have been an interesting chance to leverage what was still colossal name recognition into something better; even were we to develop cost-effective level 4 autonomous vehicles with robotic or drone delivery, the old REA distribution model would be unsustainable vs. (say) current Amazon prospective development.
This discussion brings back my first career - worked for an LTL trucking company. During the 1980s the carriers fell off rather quickly as deregulation changed the game. The protected territories were gone. The Teamster carriers soon faced not only expanded competition, but new carriers arrived which were non union. After 10 years, the writing was on the wall and I moved on to another carrier...33 years later still selling for that company...ironically to trucking companies and private fleets.
One of our biggest accounts was Yellow. The big 3 of the 1980s transcons are gone...Roadway (merged with Yellow), CF, and Yellow. Other transcons such as Ryder/PIE, Transcon, and Interstate fell off.
Solid regionals (here in the Midwest) such as Associated, Holland (merged into Yellow and recently closed), Smith, Crouse, Hyman, Lifschultz, Tucker, Preston, and dozens others fell by the wayside.
ABF and the old Overnight (now TFI) are the only major Teamster carriers left that I can think of. The gold standard of LTL seems to be Old Dominion...they have been very selective in their business model and expansion.
LTL trucking like railroads has its share of "Fallen Flags".
Ed
NYC-Ohio Backshop Slight correction--Arkansas Freightways became American Freightways and then was bought by Fedex and became Fedex Freight. Fedex Ground is Fedex's package division. That was East of the Rockies (or East of the Mississippi). West was another outfit whose name eludes me.
Backshop Slight correction--Arkansas Freightways became American Freightways and then was bought by Fedex and became Fedex Freight. Fedex Ground is Fedex's package division.
Slight correction--Arkansas Freightways became American Freightways and then was bought by Fedex and became Fedex Freight. Fedex Ground is Fedex's package division.
That was East of the Rockies (or East of the Mississippi). West was another outfit whose name eludes me.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.