Elephants!

[Mookie]

I have been sitting here debating if I have a real question or if I am just missing something obvious.

Push-Pull gave me a thought - I see all kinds of coal trains with (forgive me Mark) MU's? (I am tired and can't seem to remember my terms)

So if a coal train goes east to a power plant, can or do they keep the engines with the cars, dump the cars and send it back with the trailing unit now the HEP?

I am just sure there is a big elephant sitting right in front of me and I am missing something. Just can't see around the elephant!

Mookie

[richardy]

All of the power plants in Oklahoma turn the whole train on a loop track that passes through the rotary dumper. The lead units remain the lead units.

Richard

[StillGrande]

Do the locomotives pass through the rotary too (I know they don't rotate the locomotives, but wouldn't at one end or the other there not be a rotary coupler?)? I've seen the loading, but not the unloading of these trains.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by richardy

All of the power plants in Oklahoma turn the whole train on a loop track that passes through the rotary dumper. The lead units remain the lead units.

Richard

Same here.

I live by a deep-sea port where they dump numerous coal trains a day.

The trains just run around a Balloon track while going through the dumpers and the unit on the head end stays as the unit on the head end and the unit on the tail end stays as the unit on the tail end.

The funny part is, for whatever reason around here, the unit on the tail end always seems to be the one with air conditioning.


It's a little different than the push-pull of commuter trains. With the commuter trains there is only ONE locomotive and it stays on the same end all the time.

When the train goes one way the locomotive pulls the train and the engineer rides in the front in the locomotive, when the train then starts the other way the engineer rides in (what used to be the last car) in a control cab, and the locomotive is on the other end pushing the train.

Basically the control cab is just a little desk in the last car that controls the locomotive on the other end of the train, making the locomotive run in reverse and pu***he train.

In the case of the unit trains with a unit on the trail and the head end, there is always a locmotive on both ends.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by StillGrande

Do the locomotives pass through the rotary too (I know they don't rotate the locomotives, but wouldn't at one end or the other there not be a rotary coupler?)? I've seen the loading, but not the unloading of these trains.

Depends on the dumper (there are lots of different kinds out there).

The one near my place there are two dumpers at the deep sea port that are both for unloading coal, and the locomotives just drive right through the dumper and the first car is spotted so it can be rotated.

There is another dumper down in Vancouver that is used for sulpher, and units CANNOT drive through the dumper, because it was not built to support that kind of weight, so the trains are backed into the dumper and then the units cut off, then the dumper pulls the train through with it's own power.

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by StillGrande

Do the locomotives pass through the rotary too (I know they don't rotate the locomotives, but wouldn't at one end or the other there not be a rotary coupler?)? I've seen the loading, but not the unloading of these trains.

The power passes through the dumpers here. The trains I have observed have one car somewhere in the train that has rotary couplers on both ends. The cars behind the dual coupler car are turned in the opposite direction of those in front. Thus there is always a rotary coupler in the correct postion so every car can be dumped.

Richard

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

QUOTE: Originally posted by richardy

All of the power plants in Oklahoma turn the whole train on a loop track that passes through the rotary dumper. The lead units remain the lead units.

Richard

Same here.

I live by a deep-sea port where they dump numerous coal trains a day.

The trains just run around a Balloon track while going through the dumpers and the unit on the head end stays as the unit on the head end and the unit on the tail end stays as the unit on the tail end.

The funny part is, for whatever reason around here, the unit on the tail end always seems to be the one with air conditioning.


It's a little different than the push-pull of commuter trains. With the commuter trains there is only ONE locomotive and it stays on the same end all the time.

When the train goes one way the locomotive pulls the train and the engineer rides in the front in the locomotive, when the train then starts the other way the engineer rides in (what used to be the last car) in a control cab, and the locomotive is on the other end pushing the train.

Basically the control cab is just a little desk in the last car that controls the locomotive on the other end of the train, making the locomotive run in reverse and pu***he train.

In the case of the unit trains with a unit on the trail and the head end, there is always a locmotive on both ends.

Macguy:
The Roberts Bank Superport in Vancouver is certainly impressive to behold! I'd heard that it has pretty much reached it's designed capacity. Are the Port officials and the B.C. provincial government under Gordon Campbell planning to use landfill to further expand the size and capacity of the port out to sea, or are they intending for the proposed expansion of the Port of Prince Rupert to take the pressure off of Roberts Bank? Also, is there a decent website that covers in detail the expansion of Prince Rupert? Thanks in advance for any info that you might have.

Sincerely, Ross R. Moore, Jr.

[mudchicken]

DPU's.....

Elephant Style, Elephant Ears (don't see those much anymore)...not seeing any whole pachyderms out there though....[:o)]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

DPU's.....

Elephant Style, Elephant Ears (don't see those much anymore)...not seeing any whole pachyderms out there though....[:o)]

Thanx MC - I knew you would come through for me! DPU's. I will remember that on Monday, but just not on Friday!

Going home - maybe help clear cobwebs from brain.

Later

Mook

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rossrobertmoorejr

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

QUOTE: Originally posted by richardy

All of the power plants in Oklahoma turn the whole train on a loop track that passes through the rotary dumper. The lead units remain the lead units.

Richard

Same here.

I live by a deep-sea port where they dump numerous coal trains a day.

The trains just run around a Balloon track while going through the dumpers and the unit on the head end stays as the unit on the head end and the unit on the tail end stays as the unit on the tail end.

The funny part is, for whatever reason around here, the unit on the tail end always seems to be the one with air conditioning.


It's a little different than the push-pull of commuter trains. With the commuter trains there is only ONE locomotive and it stays on the same end all the time.

When the train goes one way the locomotive pulls the train and the engineer rides in the front in the locomotive, when the train then starts the other way the engineer rides in (what used to be the last car) in a control cab, and the locomotive is on the other end pushing the train.

Basically the control cab is just a little desk in the last car that controls the locomotive on the other end of the train, making the locomotive run in reverse and pu***he train.

In the case of the unit trains with a unit on the trail and the head end, there is always a locmotive on both ends.

Macguy:
The Roberts Bank Superport in Vancouver is certainly impressive to behold! I'd heard that it has pretty much reached it's designed capacity. Are the Port officials and the B.C. provincial government under Gordon Campbell planning to use landfill to further expand the size and capacity of the port out to sea, or are they intending for the proposed expansion of the Port of Prince Rupert to take the pressure off of Roberts Bank? Also, is there a decent website that covers in detail the expansion of Prince Rupert? Thanks in advance for any info that you might have.

Sincerely, Ross R. Moore, Jr.

Roberts Bank is definately a site to behold.

I live in Delta, about a 10 mintue drive from the deep sea port.

Delta Port currently has a backlog of approximately 5000 containers waiting to be shipped out by rail. (For whatever reason the backlog only affects the CN, CP seems to have no problem keeping up with demand).

CN only runs at present one train in and out of the port per 24 hour period, the train averages about 10-12 thousand feet (pure intermodal), but this winter has been running slightly shorter due to the cold weather and charging of the train's brake system, a contributing factor to teh 5000 container backlog.

The port currently has 2 deep sea berths, and it's adding a third birth as we speak. Plans are to double the capacity of the port by adding another 3 berths, but to do so requires the fill of more ocean, and there are currently big debates in my part of town regarding environmental impacts to sea and aquatic life, as well as tidal disruptions.

Not only will the expansion affect the marine life, but also us citizens who already have to put up with the constant string of truck traffic to and from deltaport on a weekly basis. In order to expand the port any further new freeways will have to be built, because at current the freeway system surrounding the port is already past maximum capacity with the large number of trucks arriving and departing daily with their intermodal deliveries.

At local town meetings the issue has come up repeatedly of why more traffic isn't diverted to Prince Rupert where the infrastructure is not only already under-utilized, but where the jobs are also needed. It is also a full day faster to sail from Asia to Prince Rupert than it is to sail from Asia to Delta Port.

The port of Vancouver always manages to side-step this debate, and to date really hasn't given any decent answers.

If the said expansion of the additional three berths goes through, there are plans to double the capacity of the rail yard adding up-to an additional 20 tracks, and double track the mainline from Delta Port to Livingston where the Port Subdivision meets the CN mainline.

There is lots of info out there regarding Delta Port, some good sites are:
http://www.portvancouver.com/
http://www.eao.gov.bc.ca/epic/output/html/deploy/epic_project_doc_list_212_p_com.html
http://ftn.fedex.com/cndbulletin/012005b.htm
http://www.globalairphotos.com/gallery/BC/Delta/Tsawwassen
http://www.firstnationsdrum.com/Winter%202004/BizTwas.htm

Hope the info helps.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, macguy! That's much appreciated.

Sincerely, Ross R. Moore, Jr.