Soo Sprints

[SFbrkmn]

I don't have the article, wish I did and have tried to come across it. I believe Trains (maybe 1981?) did a feature on the MILW Sprint service. If anyone comes across it, let us know. 

Sam Andrews 

[SD60MAC9500]

daveklepper

Interesting that FedEx uses an intermodal train run primarily fior UPS.

 

If UPS traffic doesn't fill out slots on a Z train. Those slots are available to other carriers.

Willow Springs, which was built in mind for UPS handles traffic from any mutlitude of; LTL, IMC, and TL carrier. Today UPS traffic only makes up a 1/3 of the lifts at WSP.

[daveklepper]

Interesting that FedEx uses an intermodal train run primarily fior UPS.

[BaltACD]

daveklepper

UPS Train?  Won't handle other business?   Will handle other business but no market for it?

Can't speak toward other carriers operating plans.  CSX had a number of designated UPS trains.  The trains handled all traffic end to end.  UPS traffic was the determinate when the 'gate closed' for traffic on the train if beyond standards.  UPS traffic was given priority if train is capacity constrained.  On line of road UPS trains are given near absolute priority - in many, if not most, cases the UPS trains have regular Assigned crews - which are the most desireable runs on the seniority district where they exist, thus insuring the trains will be crewed, even when a crew shortage exists.  At destination priority is given to getting UPS grounded - depending upon the location UPS drivers or carrier drivers may be used to dray the UPS trailer/containers to the UPS sort facility.

UPS service was graded on the basis of Sort Failures, wherein each box UPS tenders has a specific Sort Time at the UPS destination facility.  Miss getting the box to the UPS facility by the Sort Time and you have a Sort Failure.  When there are line blockages it was common practice to have UPS traffic unloaded from railcars to moved over the highway to protect the Sort Time and thus prevent a Sort Failure.

[SD60MAC9500]

daveklepper

UPS Train?  Won't handle other business?   Will handle other business but no market for it?

 

It does handle other business mainly from the LTL carriers; Yellow, R+L, Estes, FedEx, etc. JBH, and KLLM juts to name a few of the IMC's, and TL's that utilizes the train. However it is ran for the benefit of UPS as it provides a good portion of the volume.

As an aside the failures of the SPRINT and high cost Lo-Lo (Lift on lift off) shorthaul TOFC. These problems gave a gentleman named Tom Engle at NYAB the idea to devise the Iron Highway concept. A low slung Ro-Ro platform that could take any highway trailer that didn't need to be reinforced for Lo-Lo TOFC service. SHIM (ShortHaul InterModal) TOFC is also where one man makes sense.

[daveklepper]

UPS Train?  Won't handle other business?   Will handle other business but no market for it?

[greyhounds]

Ah yes, the Milwaukee Road/Soo Line Sprints.  I remember them well.

 

They were born out of the same concept as the ICG Slingshots. Fast, frequent train service would get the freight on the railroad instead of the interstate.  The concept has some merit, but in and of itself it is insufficient to divert a lot of freight from truck to rail intermodal.  You need to save the customer money while providing truck competitive service.

 

As an aside, I once dated a woman who graduated from Northwestern University’s graduate school of management a year after I graduated with a different degree.  She wanted to go into railroading and the MILW offered her a job that would give her operating experience. So, she became an assistant trainmaster supervising, among other things, the Twin Cities intermodal terminal.  She told me of one evening when the IM terminal manager was trying to get all the pigs loaded and she was trying to get the Sprint train out on time.  She finally directed the train to leave before loading was complete.   The train ran on time, but some customers had their freight still sitting at the Twin Cities terminal the next morning. That’s not truck competitive service.  

 

The Sprints are well covered in Dave DeBoer’s book “Piggyback & Containers.”  The FRA was then promoting the fast and frequent concept and they had some government $$ to throw around.  Mr. DeBoer was then working for the FRA. 

 

According to the book and my memory, the FRA first took the concept to the C&NW.  The C&NW wasn’t interested in working with the government, (Wisely IMHO).  During Sprint’s heyday the C&NW operated a competing overnight intermodal service between Chicago and the Twin Cities. That train was called “The Viking.”  The ICG never took goverment money for the Slingshots.

 

One killer government stipulation was that the Sprint business had to move on rates that existed before implementation of the service.  Well, these were largely terminal to terminal TOFC plan 2½ rates.  A terminal-to-terminal rate is always wrong.  It underprices movements with low drayage costs while simultaneously overpricing movements with higher drayage costs.  So, the railroad is leaving money on the table in the former while losing business which could be handled profitably in the later.  But that was the government stipulation.

 

I could go on, but that’s enough.  Today, Chicago to Twin Cities service is provided by BNSF train ZCHCSTP.  It’s a UPS train.

[ns145]

MP173

Quite a photo.

The Soo freight schedules indicated a 60 car or 120 trailer limit.

Would be interesting to see how the market responded to this service.

I will dig out my Trains magazine from the basement to read.

BTW...anyone here have the Trains digital service?  If I read that correctly one receives all magazines plus access to all past magazines - correct?

Ed

 

I have the digital service.  I can access all current and past TRAINS, Classic Trains, Model Railroader, and Garden Railways magazines.  Very nice to have when you want to do research or relive the past. 

[MP173]

Quite a photo.

The Soo freight schedules indicated a 60 car or 120 trailer limit.

Would be interesting to see how the market responded to this service.

I will dig out my Trains magazine from the basement to read.

BTW...anyone here have the Trains digital service?  If I read that correctly one receives all magazines plus access to all past magazines - correct?

Ed

[ns145]

Here's a link to a nice photo of a Sprint train taken by Mike Danneman: https://railpictures.net/photo/418624/  Definitely moving fast given the amount of ballast dust that's gitting kicked up by the train.  

He mentions in the caption that by 1984 two GP40's were the most common power set used on the train.  I presume that means the MILW was running longer consists by then.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The train length and the power shown above are correct, it was either a GP40 or SD40-2.  Extended crew districts were in place, crews worked a Chicago-Milwaukee-Chicago turn or Milwaukee-Twin Cities one way.

[CMStPnP]

I grew up less than a mile from the Twin Cities Mainline.   Sprint Trains were implemented not too long after the Milwaukee Road completed it's 4R railroad loan or grant to upgrade the Chicago to Twin Cities mainline.    Those trains flew through town doing about 60-65 on what used to be mostly 40 mph track prior to the upgrade.    They were quite a sight to see.     I believe Milwaukee limited their size to about 20 flatcars initially if I am not mistaken, led by one GP40-2 or SD40-2.........forget which.    They refused to publicize their financial stats and that is probably a good reason why they can't be found today.

[SD60MAC9500]

jeffhergert

I believe it was 1978 when the MILW started the Sprints.  I believe they used a 3 man (engr, condr and brkmn) crew.  Someone (I think Trains) did an article, it might have been an abbreviated article on them round the time they started running.

I don't remember if it was, or became, an interdivisional operation. Chicago (Bensenville) to Milwaukee was a crew district.  It seems like it did, with Portage WI becoming the crew change point.

Jeff

PS. It was Trains, the article was "The train they call Sprint." 

 

 

Trains issue April 1981 pgs. 26-33

[charlie hebdo]

Very fast intermodal service.

[jeffhergert]

I believe it was 1978 when the MILW started the Sprints.  I believe they used a 3 man (engr, condr and brkmn) crew.  Someone (I think Trains) did an article, it might have been an abbreviated article on them round the time they started running.

I don't remember if it was, or became, an interdivisional operation. Chicago (Bensenville) to Milwaukee was a crew district.  It seems like it did, with Portage WI becoming the crew change point.

Jeff

PS. It was Trains, the article was "The train they call Sprint." 

[MP173]

The excellent website movingthefreight.com has a collection of railroad schedules and other operating paperwork.

There is a Soo freight schedule from 1-87 which shows a number of Sprint TOFC trains in operation including 3 each way between Bensenville and Shoreham (Minneapolis) and 1 each way between Bensenville and Milwaukee.

Departures were evenly spaced - Bensenville 0430, 1230, and 2000 with arrivals in Mpls at 1630, 2203 and 0600.  Similar southbounds.

Bensenville to Milwaukee departed at 1530 with arrival at 1845 and return 1930 with arrival in B'ville at 2215.  It almost seems like that was a turn crew.

Anyone have any info on these Sprints?  I believe these originated with Milwaukee Road in the late 70s.  Unfortunately there doesnt seem to be any operating info with number of trailers handled, revenue, etc.  

Were these run with reduced crews (2 per)?  Who were primary customers?  LTL carriers would be a natural for the overnight runs, as would UPS, and the USPS.

Thanks,

 

Ed