The BN wanted to purchase the GBW but the government let the CNW purchase it instead. I always thought I made sense for the BN to service the many industries in Wisconsin and have a part of the haul. Any thoughts?
Ed Burns
Retired Clerk from Mpls NP BN BNSF
kgbw49Ashley Furniture has a huge operation in Arcadia, WI. Here are the map coordinates to copy and paste into your browser: (44.2527405, -91.5015432) You'll see a cut of doublestacks, of all things, spotted on a siding at the plant.
I've never seen that before. They've got their own stackers and everything.
MidlandMike There was also the Ann Arbor carferries out of Frankfort (Elberta). In the early 1980s they still went to Manitowoc and Kewaunee, but quit about 1982. The line was eventually cut back to the Yuma sand quarry west of Cadillac.
There was also the Ann Arbor carferries out of Frankfort (Elberta). In the early 1980s they still went to Manitowoc and Kewaunee, but quit about 1982. The line was eventually cut back to the Yuma sand quarry west of Cadillac.
kgbw49 Tree68, spot on! The Soo Line had ferry slips in Manistique, MI. Ann Arbor ran the ferries. http://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/2018/03/ann-arbor-ferry-dock-in-manistique-mi.html?m=1
Tree68, spot on!
The Soo Line had ferry slips in Manistique, MI. Ann Arbor ran the ferries.
http://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/2018/03/ann-arbor-ferry-dock-in-manistique-mi.html?m=1
In addition to the ferries that went directly across Lake Michigan, there was one that ran to Michigan's upper peninsula. And I'm not talking about the Mackinac Straits operation (Chief Watawam). The one I'm thinking of ran up the lake from one of the Michigan ports.
Wasn't there an article in one of the rail magazines about them not too long ago?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
There was more than one ferry boat. In the 1970s they went to Milwaukee, Manitowoc, and Kewaunee. They ran 24 hours a day, all year even thru the winter lake ice. A round trip to Manitowoc or Kewaunee took about 12 hours, including loadind/unloading, so they could schedule two RT per day. A Milwaukee trip took a couple of hours longer. They also took passengers and vehicles. In the late 70s and early 80s I took all 3 routes, often by motorcycle. The crews loaded the cars, but they let you drive your own motorcycle on, between the deck tracks, and tie it down to the tracks.
There was also considerable chemical traffic going east out of the Ludington plants, and also the Manistee chemical plants and paper mill. I was told of the chemical train that ran between the Dow plants in Ludington and Midland, but that was replaced by a barge (which sank). In the late 80s, the line was cut east of Baldwin, and traffic headed south from there to Grand Rapids. These lines are now owned by Marquette Rail (G&W).
Of course the last carferry ex-C&O SS Badger is summer only road vehicles.
Ironically, I was in Ludington today and talked to a former C&O engineer. He indicated when he started in 1970 there were multiple trains into Ludington to load on the ferry.
How many cross Lake Michigan trips were there daily?
I read on a website that the "Ludington Line" was CTC so there must have been good traffic to the ferry operation.
Anyone have info on that operation?Thanks for the link.
Ed
Trains has a nice summary of the car ferry history here: https://www.trains.com/ctr/railroads/railroad-operations/lake-michigan-carferries/
GB&W and C&O hauled the final car ferry railcars (Kewanee to Ludington), if I'm reading correctly, on November 16, 1990, but the larger Chessie car ferry service ended in 1983. After deregulation, C&O and the others had no requirement to short haul themselves, so cross-lake traffic dwindled.
I didn't know about the car ferry "Milwaukee" sinking in 1929 with 46 crew. Her remains and those of 25 rail cars rest at the bottom of Lake Michigan. Divers apparently found her in 1972 near Milwaukee.
kgbw49 The Great Lakes car ferries as a bypass to Chicago were pretty much overwhelmed by the economics of longer and longer trains well before PSR.
The Great Lakes car ferries as a bypass to Chicago were pretty much overwhelmed by the economics of longer and longer trains well before PSR.
When you consider that the Lake Michigan boats had a nominal capacity of 34 40-foot cars, it wouldn't take too much for them to be overwhelmed by larger freight trains, even late in the steam era.
CMStPnPI kind of understand with shippers preference for doing business with a single railroad why bridge railroads have disappeared. For GB&W it is probably too late with the rail ripped up. However, I am surprised by the willingness of the Class I railroads not to take advantage of shortcuts on mileage routings for the speed of the shipment and service to the client. I guess their priorities are on profits and like a corrupt cab driver.... racking up as much miles as they can get away with. Speed between points A and B should be a driving metric of most railroads and not just limited to intermodal. It should at least be a measure of rail network fluidity. It's sad to see that it rated so low in railroad priorities. Can't remember when the last rail cutoff or realignment was built in Texas or Wisconsin.
Speed between points A and B should be a driving metric of most railroads and not just limited to intermodal. It should at least be a measure of rail network fluidity. It's sad to see that it rated so low in railroad priorities. Can't remember when the last rail cutoff or realignment was built in Texas or Wisconsin.
When the Class 1's went through their 'Plant Rationalization' phase after the Staggers Act was enacted, the criteria that was used in deciding lines to keep and lines to jetison were based upon how much traffic a line originated or terminated per mile for the length of the line. The lines that were jetisoned that had some traffic were bought up or leased by Short Line operators who felt their less expensive operations could turn a profit on the traffic where the Class 1's couldn't. The lines that Short Lines didn't step in to operate for the most part were abandoned and had the track structure ripped up and sold for scrap.
Many of the 'short cut' lines were created for the exact purpose of having no traffic that would affect through train movements - in the days before modern methods of train control were more limiting on train operations and the carriers were intent on moving their passenger trains. Once carrier operated passenger trains ceased to be a priority, the need for 'short cuts' evaporated.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Now that CN is owner of pretty much all of the mainline railroads north of I-94, rail traffic from the Green Bay and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan makes its way to Neenah and then heads northwest to Minneapolis and Canada.
One of the GB&W staples off the ferries in Kewaunee was auto parts for the Ford plant in St. Paul. Eventually that traffic shifted through Chicago.
Eventually that traffic was lost as the Ford plant in St Paul was closed in favor of other plants closer to more population centers compared to the relative "geographic outpost" of Minneapolis, which is hundreds more miles away from other population centers in the geographic eastern 1/3 of the US.
I kind of understand with shippers preference for doing business with a single railroad why bridge railroads have disappeared. For GB&W it is probably too late with the rail ripped up. However, I am surprised by the willingness of the Class I railroads not to take advantage of shortcuts on mileage routings for the speed of the shipment and service to the client. I guess their priorities are on profits and like a corrupt cab driver.... racking up as much miles as they can get away with.
Ashley Furniture has a huge operation in Arcadia, WI.
Here are the map coordinates to copy and paste into your browser:
(44.2527405, -91.5015432)
You'll see a cut of doublestacks, of all things, spotted on a siding at the plant.
There is also a large Verso Paper Mill and several other large industries in Wisconsin Rapids.
(44.4022944, -89.8269447)
The Green Bay & Western had a small fleet of very dapper and modern 64-inch-drivered 2-8-2 locomotives before the end of steam.
It is too bad one was not saved.
And if you want to see Kewaunee, Green Bay & Western 2-8-0 49 (Alco 1929) she is ensconced not too far away at the Mid-Continent Railway Museum just outside of Baraboo, WI.
The old GB&W is mostly gone east of Plover, Wisconsin, I believe. Before its end, GB&W ran a daily train each way from Green Bay to East Winona to interchange with Burlington Northern (Train No. 1 westbound, Train No. 2 eastbound). CN now probably runs it as a branch out of Stevens Point, with trains rarely if ever reaching all the way to East Winona. There looks to be an intermodal terminal of sorts at the Ashley Furniture Distribution Center in Arcadia. FRA data showed an average of 6 trains per week east of Arcardia in 2020, but only 1 per week west of that town. Looks like a frac sand terminal just east of Independence, WI, and another two just east and west of Blair, along with an impressive yard facility east of Blair. There's a short branch just east of Taylor and a siding just west of Merrillan that also look frac related. There looks to be much business still in Wisconsin Rapids, but parts of the original GB&W main across town have been pulled up there with traffic now connecting to the north/south CN line. The bridge across the river there is still in service, as is the spur to Biron and the line up to and a few miles east of Plover, along with the stretch from Plover to Stevens Point.
In Green Bay, track still runs from old Norwood Yard west to Packerland Drive to serve several business, and there is still track in place east to Luxemburg. The track that ran north from Norwood and turned east to the Fox River bridge has been abandoned. The famous "GB&W" boxcar traffic area east of the Fox River seems to have dried up since the merger, with just tank cars on some sidings now.
Earlier in its history, GB&W was a bridge operation from the ferry terminal at Kewanee on Lake Michigan to the now-gone bridge across the Mississipi River all the way to Winona, Minnesota, the ferries across the Lake allowing freight to bypass Chicago. In addition to Train Nos. 1 and 2, it ran Train Nos. 3 and 4 across the state until the mid to late 1960s when it lost Ford business. Additional Train Nos. 5 and 6, usually mixed or way freights, appear on 1940s-50s timetables.
The old GB&W was absorbed into Wisconsin Central and then CN.
I looked at my CN map and the line seems to be intact west of Green Bay. I believe there is a big Frac Sand mining operation on the line. What else generates traffic and revenue on the line?How has it evolved since CN took over operations?Ed
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