MidlandMike When I was in Skagway ten years ago, they were using the ore dock for cruise ships, and boarding train passengers on the docks rail spur. Wonder why they want to demolish the ore portion?
When I was in Skagway ten years ago, they were using the ore dock for cruise ships, and boarding train passengers on the docks rail spur. Wonder why they want to demolish the ore portion?
Interesting development has occurred at the Port of Skagway:
Per the Yukon News...
https://www.yukon-news.com/news/yukon-entering-35-year-deal-for-use-of-skagway-ore-terminal/
The Province of Yukon has signed a 35 year ore export terminal agreement with the City of Skagway. They will invest in an updated ore terminal to support the Minto mine, where rare earths are brought over the pass and down by truck. Yukon was worried that the cruise demand would cut off their only access to export markets.
In short, the ore dock was supposed to be demolished in May 2023, but with this agreement, they are contributing $17M USD to build a new dock otherwise they would have lost their tidewater access forever. So the new pier will be a combo ore/cruise terminal to accomodate both industries.
City of Skagway wanted some guarantees due to remaining lead contamination in the city from the Faro Mine operations which have not been cleaned up yet.
An editorial on the benefits of this update can be found here:
https://www.yukon-news.com/columns/yukonomist-an-outbreak-of-international-cooperation/
I just got back from Skagway and rode the WP&Y up to the summit and back. I am impressed with the recent upgrades. There were 2 active trains running with a meet before Summit. I noticed all new signaling with LED lighting and solar panels. Welded rail in many parts of the route and a nice loop back just past the Canadian border. The ballast was in excellent shape all the way, even where there was little to no room on some of the sides of the basalt cliffs. The line going on to Carcross looked great. Of the 1PM run, our consist was full and the second one was about a half full. There were 3 ships in port. There are 2 rockslides. A minor one beyond the main dock and and the major one next to the rail dock. WP&Y has converted containers into a "safety" trail where they have cut out the doors and let people walk through. WP&Y provides bus shuttle services at the end of the dock, but only to the Skagway city line. (Weird) A WP&Y employee has to stand at the crossing to run a blockade for the walkers when the empty train does his backup move to reload.
The 7 shovelhead engines are sitting on the rails just past the slide and are in perfect looking shape with fresh paint. The exhausts and intakes are covered and personally I thought they had already been sold and were awaiting the freighter to come pick them up.
The rest were in the shops or sitting on the shop yard tracks as we passed by. We nearly hit 2 black bears on our way to the summit and we had a slow down coming back because someone dropped their phone while trying to photograph the bears. Good luck finding that phone as we were just below the tree line.
The rest of this post is how I understand things as of today.
Carnival PLC owns the WP&Y and owns the operating agreement for the Port of Skagway. The Port has asked the City of Skagway (before the rock slide) for a permit to demolish the ore dock and rebuild it for cruise docking. The last I read was the City is not sure they want it removed in the event some ore traffic returns to the Yukon. This was during covid so I would have to follow up on that issue.
Pre-covid, Carnival PLC talked about using Whitehorse as a sort of premium excursion destination with travelers coming by ship and staying a week before returning. It was also believed that this might also have some real estate benefits as people look for better (ie: cheaper) places in the backwoods to spend their summers. They can travel by ship and reach their summer home by rail and return the same. Covid shelved all that planning at the moment and Carnival is trying to reduce its accumulated covid debt right now. So until Carnival gets profitable again and gets their debt back down, I wouldn't expect anything major.
But that investment in those new engines and a ton of new passenger cars has got to be paying off. With 4 runs up and back in a day and many full consists depending on how many ships are docked, that should be a good, healthy profit center. That railroad gift shop was getting pummelled with customers buying up everything. The station even has a full time set of baristas to keep the latte's flowing. And the summer cruise season is just getting started.
Final remarks: I was impressed with the large number of young women they had working in train operations. I am not saying they aren't capable, I am just impressed with how well they carried themselves and used their authority on their radios like pros, but were 100% compatible with the passengers and their questions after.
The Port of Victoria (BC) employees told me that cruise stops there will be up 20% over last year. The last time I stopped in Victoria BC, the whole town didn't really care who came or left, but this year, the cottage tourism industry around the port has exploded.
I was just in Skagway this past week (NCL Jewel). There were 2 other ships in port, besides us. We used the Ore Dock. The loading machinery building looks to be well maintained, at least externally. Seven of the old GE Shovelnoses were parked in the main dock right by the rockslide area. I would guess that they are stored/retired. All three of the excursion trains were pulled by the new E3000CC-DC locomotives. One was painted in a Rock Island style red/black and the other two in the WP&Y green/yellow. What was interesting is that they used a darker yellow so it had a Reading look to it. My wife and I both came down with a bug, so we didn't ride the train (we've done it before) and so I don't know where the Alcos or other GEs are.
ETA--I just read that the 7 shovels are for sale, if anyone is interested...
They could berth 2 cruise ships along that dock until the landslides caused one to close. There are 2 other piers that can handle cruise ships, including the ore dock. IIRC there was some interest in using the ore dock again for ore, but the cruiselines did not want to limit themselves. There are rail spurs to all the docks, where the passenger trains can be loaded directly from shipside. When I was there ten years ago, all 4 berths were occupied by cruise ships. There were also 4 ships docked at the other two Inside Passage ports we were at, plus a 5th ship at one where the passengers were lightered in to the dock. Busy place in the season, and we were there in mid September near the end of the season.
The berths along the mountainside are the main cruise terminal berths in Skagway.
(59.4476654, -135.3214036)
Copy and paste these coordinates into Google to go straight to that location.
Royal Caribbian cruiseline has cancelled some stops in Skagway because of the ongoing problem with landslides above one of the docks. Last I knew there were 3 other docks to handle cruise ships, but the cruise companies seem to schedule so that all the docks are full.
https://www.cruisehive.com/royal-caribbean-removes-popular-alaska-port-from-many-cruises/100515
Fred M CainI have been able to find out this much: The rails and ties are all still in place all the way to Whitehorse although there has really been no maintenance on them for at least 20 years. It might possibly be getting closer to 40 years now.
The line was shut down in 1982 when the Faro mine closed. When they reopened as a tourist line in 1988, the equipment stranded in Whitehorse was hauled south.
Does anyone have any inside information or perhaps even speculation as to when the WP&Y might reopen the remaineder of their line from Carcross to Whitehorse? Any ideas when this might happen, if ever?
I have been able to find out this much: The rails and ties are all still in place all the way to Whitehorse although there has really been no maintenance on them for at least 20 years. It might possibly be getting closer to 40 years now.
It was reported in the online Whitehorse newspaper back in 2019 or 2020 that after the line was bought by Carnival, they were doing extensive brush clearing along the north end of the line. The pandemic put an abrupt halt to that.
Carnival was hit very, very hard by the pandemic and darn near went under. Does anyone else have any other ideas?
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