Wyoming RRing??

[Anonymous]

Can anyone suggest books and web sites for info on railroading in Wyoming? I am planning to visit the state in a few months. I will be in the east & southeast portions of the state.

Thanks,
BR

[Pruitt]

Good Morning!

I can't point you to any books, because as far as I know, there aren't any! (At least, not on anything other than the UP through southern WY). That's a shame too, because railroading in Wyoming is, and always has been, fascinating, and lends itself well to modeling.

BUT!

I was born and raised in Wyoming, and am building my lifetime model railroad based on the CB&Q through Wyoming. To that end I've done some research, plus I have quite a lot of knowledge of some of the CB&Q locations (like the sugar plant in Worland, and the gypsum plants in Cody and Lovell, and some knowledge of historical industries, for instance). I also know something about the UP in southern WY, but I suspect that's not what you're looking for, because there ARE books about the UP that cover this area.

Of course, there's also the C&NW, which met up with the CB&Q at Orin Junction and shared track to Shobon, near Shoshoni, where they parted ways. The CB&Q went north, and the C&NW went southwest 23 miles to Riverton (that line is now a hiking trail).

Anyway, I might be able to help you - what are your specific questions? I don't know a whole lot about train operations through Wyoming (yet), but I do have some pretty decent general information.

I'm also putting together a website about my layout that will feature prototype photos and data interspersed with my layout description and photos (at least, until the modeling shows my deficient skills, then I may separate the real from the model). The site isn't up yet, but it should be in the next month or two. I'll post the site URL here when it's up (if I can, that is).

Mark B.

[Anonymous]

This is sort of a secondary line, at least in Wyoming), but you might try the Chicago and Northwestern Historical Society webpage(www.cnwhs.org). The North Western once ran a line from Chadron, Nebraska into Casper Wyoming and West to Lander. I believe the line from Casper to Lander has been abandoned but the rest of it may still be in operation under the railroad name Dakota, Minnesota and Eastern (as far as I know). The line was known as the Cowboy Line and I think parts of it are now a long-distance hiking trail. I think the DM&E has a webpage also--just try search engine.

[Pruitt]

Karl -

Did the CNW get to Lander? I lived there in 1966, and there was no railroad in town at that time, as I recall. The end of track was in Riverton, about 20 miles closer to Casper. Had it been abandoned by that time?

The CB&Q and C&NW shared trackage from Casper west to Shobon, just east of Shoshoni, and I THINK they shared from Orin west to Shobon, but the Orin to Casper section I'm not sure of.

Fron Shoshoni to Riverton is now a hiking trail - I've seen both ends of it in the last couple of years, though I've never walked it. I know there was a big hullabaloo about the trail when the C&NW abandoned it route west of Casper, because the farmers and ranchers claimed that the land was theirs, and the RR right-of-way reverted to them when the RR left. Apparently they either lost, or reached accomodation with the folks who wanted the trail, because there it is - over 20 miles long. I'll walk it one of these years.

Mark B.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like an interesting area! Wyoming, Idaho, Montana are about the only places in the US I've never visited. Yes, the C&NW did go to Lander. They actually planned to build on to Ogden or somewhere to connect with the SP and avoid the Union Pacific but they ended at Lander instead. They did run passenger trains to Lander in the 1930's, per an official guide I have from that era. However, I don't know when the line was abandoned. Maps I have from 1964 still show the line. I did hear about the BN trackage rights but didn't know the details. Thanks for the info. Maybe someone else will elaborate on the whole issue,.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply. I really don't have any specific questions, just general "where are the good spots to see lots of trains"? I am thinking about relocating to Cheyenne. I would like to be in a place that I can go watch trains without having to drive 3-4 hours. I have a trip planned for May, and would like to include some train watching while I am there. I also wanted to visit the Powder River Basin.

Thanks,
BR

[Pruitt]

Cheyenne is a great place for watching trains - a heck of a lot of them go by!

West of Cheyenne, anywhere along I-80 towards the Summit, is also great for watching trains (until the railroad no longer parallels the highway!) - just keep one eye on the road, too!

When I was a teen-ager we used to drive across from Cheyenne to Laramie a lot, and I can remember watching train after train go by as we drove along.

Have a great time! You'll need LOTS of film!

[Pruitt]

You are absolutely right. I just looked at my beyond-priceless Rand-McNally 1948 Handy Railroad Atlas of the United States (the Kalmbach reprint from several years ago - one of the most useful reference tools I've found), and big as life, the Wyoming map shows the C&NW line into Lander. I have been looking at that map for weeks (plus on and off for the last several years, including on previous trips back to Wyoming), and I would have sworn it only showed the line as far as Riverton!

Boy, I hate it when reality changes shape around me that way!

[Anonymous]

I'll look for a copy of that atlas--sounds like something I'd enjoy looking at. There are some abandoned lines here in Illinois and it's hard to figure out which railroad owned them, when they were abandoned, etc. My dad had several friends who worked for the C&NW Chicago headquarters and they always talked about Lander. There was some big mystery about what the railroad's intentions were as far as building there, and why they stopped at Lander. Isn't there a big mountain range at Lander? Maybe they saw that and decided to quit while they were ahead. I was wondering if the Lander route was somehow based on the old Oregon Trail's "Lander Cutoff." Supposedly the C&NW could have become a transcontinental railroad but they ran out of money and quit at Lander. This could be just legend, however.

[Pruitt]

Lander sits on the eastern slopes of the Wind River Mountains. They're pretty rugged, with very few places to cross them. Nearby, though, is Atlantic City and South Pass City, where the Oregon and Mormon trails, and the Pony Express route, crossed the continental divide in a wide, arid valley. The Lander Cutoff missed this valley and went farther north, through more rugged but less arid land. The C&NW could probably have negotiated either route.

Lander has a large (for Lander) Ralston facility. What they make there, pet food or animal feed or something else, I don't know. From the looks of the plant, they probably generated many carloads per year for the railroad.

I wonder if, had the C&NW managed to become transcontinental, it would have suffered the same fate as the Milwaukee Road into the Pacific Northwest? Regardless, theeir Wyoming facilities might have grown substantially, to support the rail traffic across the line.

[Anonymous]

The famous South Pass! That would have made a good route for the C&NW to get to Ogden. There are no railroads through the pass now, right? Maybe that was the plan. I think you are right that the line probably would not have made much money, since it would have been a "late built" line like the Milwaukee. I checked again in that 1932 Official Guide, and the train the C&NW ran to Lander was a motor train, or doodlebug, running daily from Casper.

[Pruitt]

No, no railroads at all through South Pass. Its now a historic landmark, by the way, and a state park.

A daily Doodlebug to Lander? That's great info! Thanks! Does your official guide say anything about freight trains to Riverton and Lander? Any idea where I might be able to get a guide?

[Anonymous]

My dad picked the Guide up at a garage sale in Northern Indiana for $5! As to the schedule, it shows two daily trains carried passengers between Lander and Casper in 1932. Train 617 was a mixed train. The other train (the doodlebug) connected at Casper that came from Norfolk, Neb. via Chadron. The doodlebug would leave Casper at 12:40 p.m. and arrive in Lander at 5:40. All stops were made--Illco, Bucknum(?), Powder River, Waltman, Hiland, Ocla (can't read it very well),Shoshoni, Riverton, Arapaho and Hudson. I wonder when the C&NW moved to CB&Q trackage.

[Pruitt]

I've heard of (and been to most) all the stops except Illco, Bucknum and Ocla. I suspect Bucknum might be modern-day Natrona, and Illco must be completely gone, based on the order of the stations you listed. Then Ocla would probably be Moneta. I'm guessing - those places all had their current names as long as I can remember, but Illco does sound vaguely familiar for some reason.

I think the C&NW and CB&Q always shared the same trackage from Casper to Shobon - surprisingly, the CB&Q line is much busier now than I recall it ever being before the BN Merger. There would NOT have been major congestion on the line prior to that time.

So - a mixed daily and a Doodlebug. That's great info! Thanks!

[Anonymous]

No problem. Nice talkin' with you.

[Anonymous]

Hi
I live in Evanston Wy Along the UP Mainline. It is an intersting spot to railfan. Evanston is in the southwest portion of Wyoming along the border of Utah and 80 miles from Salt Lake City, Utah. Evanton has one of only roundhouses that are on the orignal UP mainline. They are restoring it now. Cheyenne also has one, but I think they tore it down but I might be mastkin. A good book to get would be Sherman Hill, it has a picture of the big boy on it. In Evanston, there is alot of them books floating around. If you want more info or I can get some names of some other books i will be happy to. Derek