EuclidNormally I am not for regulations, but there is nothing I can do to stop them if railroad management insists on pressing the envelope.
Gosh, you know, in a less restrictive environment, I would LOVE to have that discussion with you....but in order to say the things I believe to be most relevant, would only get our thread locked. So your observation of "nothing I can do" is ...IMO...a hit squarely on the head.
I just hope that when the "fix" comes along, that they recognize the problem is a result of equity taking money from labor, so THAT is what needs undone....don't allow equity to keep their loot, and expect the consumer to make things "all better". There, how is THAT for "riding the envelope"?
Ulrich ns145 jeffhergert Ulrich The days of hiring and firing people appear to be coming to an end. Now its more like hire them if you can and hang on to them as best as you can through thick and thin.. maybe that's better anyway.. My how time flies. April 1st already. But my calendar still says December. Just recently I was reading the recrew report. One train had to have another crew called at the originating terminal because one of the crew members had been pulled out of service before they departed. The reason? Attendance. Jeff I'm a lifelong railfan, but I have to admit that the rail industry is the absolute pits. Bad management, little forward thinking, crappy service even in the best of times, generally inferior to all other forms of transportation, and management ranks filled with absolutely lousy human beings. Honestly there's nothing to be a fan of, except for the glory days. Its turned into a complete dumpster fire s*** show. Very easy to critique.. much much harder to do better yourself.
ns145 jeffhergert Ulrich The days of hiring and firing people appear to be coming to an end. Now its more like hire them if you can and hang on to them as best as you can through thick and thin.. maybe that's better anyway.. My how time flies. April 1st already. But my calendar still says December. Just recently I was reading the recrew report. One train had to have another crew called at the originating terminal because one of the crew members had been pulled out of service before they departed. The reason? Attendance. Jeff I'm a lifelong railfan, but I have to admit that the rail industry is the absolute pits. Bad management, little forward thinking, crappy service even in the best of times, generally inferior to all other forms of transportation, and management ranks filled with absolutely lousy human beings. Honestly there's nothing to be a fan of, except for the glory days. Its turned into a complete dumpster fire s*** show.
jeffhergert Ulrich The days of hiring and firing people appear to be coming to an end. Now its more like hire them if you can and hang on to them as best as you can through thick and thin.. maybe that's better anyway.. My how time flies. April 1st already. But my calendar still says December. Just recently I was reading the recrew report. One train had to have another crew called at the originating terminal because one of the crew members had been pulled out of service before they departed. The reason? Attendance. Jeff
Ulrich The days of hiring and firing people appear to be coming to an end. Now its more like hire them if you can and hang on to them as best as you can through thick and thin.. maybe that's better anyway..
The days of hiring and firing people appear to be coming to an end. Now its more like hire them if you can and hang on to them as best as you can through thick and thin.. maybe that's better anyway..
My how time flies. April 1st already. But my calendar still says December.
Just recently I was reading the recrew report. One train had to have another crew called at the originating terminal because one of the crew members had been pulled out of service before they departed. The reason? Attendance.
Jeff
I'm a lifelong railfan, but I have to admit that the rail industry is the absolute pits. Bad management, little forward thinking, crappy service even in the best of times, generally inferior to all other forms of transportation, and management ranks filled with absolutely lousy human beings. Honestly there's nothing to be a fan of, except for the glory days. Its turned into a complete dumpster fire s*** show.
Very easy to critique.. much much harder to do better yourself.
Falacious argument. It's not a fan's job to reinvent an industry. Only an idiot would conclude that just because they couldn't do better themselves things really must be awesome. Do I have to be a great football player to correctly determine that the Chicago Bears really suck in 2022?
"Pressing the envelope"? That's a candidate for the old New Yorker magazine feature 'Block That Metaphor!'
It's 'pushing the envelope' in the aerospace-testing connotation, "pressing the issue" (or 'your luck') in terms of following and harrying a situation.
Pressing the envelope was something Johnny Carson did.
Convicted One Euclid shippers are likely to succeed in that objective because poor working conditions are harming shippers by causing a lack of labor to move the trains. Euclid This will not be allowed to continue. MY GOSH, You are quite the optimist!
Euclid shippers are likely to succeed in that objective because poor working conditions are harming shippers by causing a lack of labor to move the trains.
Euclid This will not be allowed to continue.
MY GOSH, You are quite the optimist!
Euclidshippers are likely to succeed in that objective because poor working conditions are harming shippers by causing a lack of labor to move the trains.
EuclidThis will not be allowed to continue.
rdamon https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/union-pacific-railroad-shipping-limits-generate-complaints-95328730 Union Pacific railroad shipping limits generate complaints "The head of the U.S. Surface Transportation Board, Martin Oberman, said Wednesday he's concerned about Union Pacific's increasing use of the embargoes because they disrupt operations of the businesses that rely on the railroad, and they haven't seemed to help its performance significantly. (snip) Oberman said there seems to be a direct correlation between the sharp drop in Union Pacific employees since 2018, as it overhauled its operations, and the increased use of embargoes. The number of train crews the railroad employed went from roughly 18,000 in 2018 to about 13,000 today and that includes all the hiring the railroad has done since the economy started to rebound from the pandemic."
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/union-pacific-railroad-shipping-limits-generate-complaints-95328730
Union Pacific railroad shipping limits generate complaints
"The head of the U.S. Surface Transportation Board, Martin Oberman, said Wednesday he's concerned about Union Pacific's increasing use of the embargoes because they disrupt operations of the businesses that rely on the railroad, and they haven't seemed to help its performance significantly.
(snip)
Oberman said there seems to be a direct correlation between the sharp drop in Union Pacific employees since 2018, as it overhauled its operations, and the increased use of embargoes. The number of train crews the railroad employed went from roughly 18,000 in 2018 to about 13,000 today and that includes all the hiring the railroad has done since the economy started to rebound from the pandemic."
UlrichNow its more like hire them if you can and hang on to them as best as you can through thick and thin.
A recent class of BNSF conductor training in Memphis had 41 applicants, of which about 6 successfully completed the training, and none actually signed on once they realized what 'the life' entailed.
Well, I hope they devise something that works,...I'm a man that enjoys potatoes.
Convicted One Euclid Are you connecting my above reference to the need to define "reciprocal switching" before implementing it to a need to define "quality of life" before impementing it? For some reason, at the time I was making the post, the "Add Quote to your post" function was dead, and the bar-button one normally uses to add a quote was shrunk to one of those "missing file" type icons, so I really could not reply to your post the way I might have preferred. And, all I was doing was poking fun at the relative ambiguity of the expression "Quality of Life" as well as your stated need to define "Common Carrier Obligation".....seems that BOTH could use better definition. The subsequent comment about regulation arising from need,.. was a separate notion. But, don't you think that added competition and the threat of reciprocal switching might be a handy lever to bring the Wall streeters more receptive to meeting Common Carrier Obligations? They might concede just to protect their investment.....I'm certain that RR management could persuade them that reciprocal switching is a wolf at the door worth avoiding.
Euclid Are you connecting my above reference to the need to define "reciprocal switching" before implementing it to a need to define "quality of life" before impementing it?
For some reason, at the time I was making the post, the "Add Quote to your post" function was dead, and the bar-button one normally uses to add a quote was shrunk to one of those "missing file" type icons, so I really could not reply to your post the way I might have preferred.
And, all I was doing was poking fun at the relative ambiguity of the expression "Quality of Life" as well as your stated need to define "Common Carrier Obligation".....seems that BOTH could use better definition.
The subsequent comment about regulation arising from need,.. was a separate notion.
But, don't you think that added competition and the threat of reciprocal switching might be a handy lever to bring the Wall streeters more receptive to meeting Common Carrier Obligations?
They might concede just to protect their investment.....I'm certain that RR management could persuade them that reciprocal switching is a wolf at the door worth avoiding.
I understand your points in blue. That is what I thought you meant to say.
I also understant your point about threatening to add competition as a stick to prod management to serve the entire market rather than just the most lucrative part. I am not quite sure how that would work. If you actually added competion, railroas may have a harder time making a buck, and thus serve more of the market. But if that is business they don't want because it is not lucrative enough, maybe they simply would not compete for it.
So that is why I suggest just forcing them to serve the entire market by regulation, and the most direct way to do that would be the Common Carrier Obligation since it is already a tool created for the purpose. As the article I linked a few posts up says, all they need is an enforceable definition of Common Carrier Obligation.
Just the threat of that might coerce railroas to improve and increase their service because they know that opening the door to new regulation would be the camel's nose under the tent.
EuclidAre you connecting my above reference to the need to define "reciprocal switching" before implementing it to a need to define "quality of life" before impementing it?
Convicted One Or "Quality of Life"? LOL. That is one of the things the chronic critics of regulation seem to sweep under the carpet. Historically it has been implemented not on a whim, but to address real word problems.
Or "Quality of Life"? LOL.
That is one of the things the chronic critics of regulation seem to sweep under the carpet. Historically it has been implemented not on a whim, but to address real word problems.
Are you connecting my above reference to the need to define "reciprocal switching" before implementing it to a need to define "quality of life" before impementing it?
I also linked an article that says "Common Carrier Obligation" needs a clear definition before it can be enforced. It does have a definition, but it is too subjective to enforce legally.
Convicted One Euclid Well, adding more competition might improve the public good, but it would require Government to add that competition with something like reciprocal switching. I was just thinking about all the moaning I've heard the past 6 decades lamenting "fallen flags", and how the response is usually something along the lines of: "Drop-dead foamer, it's called free enterprise"...and how it might be those very buzzards now coming home to roost.
Euclid Well, adding more competition might improve the public good, but it would require Government to add that competition with something like reciprocal switching.
I was just thinking about all the moaning I've heard the past 6 decades lamenting "fallen flags", and how the response is usually something along the lines of: "Drop-dead foamer, it's called free enterprise"...and how it might be those very buzzards now coming home to roost.
EuclidWell, adding more competition might improve the public good, but it would require Government to add that competition with something like reciprocal switching.
BaltACD- CSX was alway crowing about how they had 'pricing power' within their network and customer base.
Could it be that near monopoly status that makes the RR's such darlings to the actvist investors?
Convicted One tree68 I would opine that the emphasis on keeping only the most profitable business is placed by folks outside the railroad world - ie, Wall Street. Well, what I kinda had in mind, enforcing the "public good" aspect might gain more traction if there was more railroads in the mix. Tell Wall street "there ain't a gonna be no railroads unless you serve the public good" And then rely upon good ol fashioned competition to test who might comply best . If there is only one railroad that's gonna haul those potatoes out of Washington, the response might not be as enthusiastic as it could be if instead 3 or 4 were competing for the privilige. That "innovation" thing I suspect that the "market power" the railroads have assembled through consolidation, gives them undue benefit because of the lack of viable alternatives.
tree68 I would opine that the emphasis on keeping only the most profitable business is placed by folks outside the railroad world - ie, Wall Street.
Well, what I kinda had in mind, enforcing the "public good" aspect might gain more traction if there was more railroads in the mix.
Tell Wall street "there ain't a gonna be no railroads unless you serve the public good" And then rely upon good ol fashioned competition to test who might comply best .
If there is only one railroad that's gonna haul those potatoes out of Washington, the response might not be as enthusiastic as it could be if instead 3 or 4 were competing for the privilige.
That "innovation" thing
I suspect that the "market power" the railroads have assembled through consolidation, gives them undue benefit because of the lack of viable alternatives.
Even back when I was working - CSX was alway crowing about how they had 'pricing power' within their network and customer base. Come the 19th of the month I will have been retired 6 years.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
tree68 Convicted One So, does the lack of a threat of competition, that was brought about by allowing so much merger/rationalization in the rail industry, factor into the surviving entities indifference towards marginal business, leaving them preoccupied with only the most profitable business? While that may be a factor, I would opine that the emphasis on keeping only the most profitable business is placed by folks outside the railroad world - ie, Wall Street. Up to a certain level, most railroad employees are only concerned with garnering a decent paycheck (and decent work conditions, as we are seeing). I'm sure that there are plenty of marketing people around who would love to be drumming up business for the railroad. Unfortunately, most of them have been laid off...
Convicted One So, does the lack of a threat of competition, that was brought about by allowing so much merger/rationalization in the rail industry, factor into the surviving entities indifference towards marginal business, leaving them preoccupied with only the most profitable business?
While that may be a factor, I would opine that the emphasis on keeping only the most profitable business is placed by folks outside the railroad world - ie, Wall Street.
Up to a certain level, most railroad employees are only concerned with garnering a decent paycheck (and decent work conditions, as we are seeing). I'm sure that there are plenty of marketing people around who would love to be drumming up business for the railroad. Unfortunately, most of them have been laid off...
I would love to see those activist Wall Street analysts have to work the schedule of railroad operating employees with the way attendance policies are currently being enforced.
Convicted OneSo, does the lack of a threat of competition, that was brought about by allowing so much merger/rationalization in the rail industry, factor into the surviving entities indifference towards marginal business, leaving them preoccupied with only the most profitable business?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
So, does the lack of a threat of competition, that was brought about by allowing so much merger/rationalization in the rail industry, factor into the surviving entities indifference towards marginal business, leaving them preoccupied with only the most profitable business?
Or put another way, if there were still more competing entities in the mix, would it be easier to remind them all they have serve-the-public-good obligations, and have hope they would respond favorably? The lack of (similar mode) alternatives seems to be working in their favor, is why I ask.
Euclid In what way were the now missing posts political?
In what way were the now missing posts political?
They discussed political subjects that were not railroad related. One of those deleted was mine.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Flintlock76No, the posts weren't abusive but they WERE political.
I was using "abusive" in a metaphoric sense...as in "abusing the local policy"
Convicted One Euclid Politics in this thread? Where? Same thought occurred to me. I just figured some abusive posts must already have been deleted?
Euclid Politics in this thread? Where?
Same thought occurred to me. I just figured some abusive posts must already have been deleted?
No, the posts weren't abusive but they WERE political. I suspect Big Steve pulled the plug before things got out of hand. Can't blame him really.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.