Question for a train crew

[Anonymous]

I consider myself an avid railfan and take the opportunity when I can to try and get that perfect shot of a passing train. But, I've often wondered, is my presence near the tracks causing undue stress to the approaching train's crew?

I always feel that I'm safe where I choose to watch the train go by, and am never closer to the tracks that a vehicle could be at a grade crossing. Still I wonder if the presence of a person standing near the tracks makes the crew wonder what I'm doing or if they can see that I have a camera and probably are looking for a good photo opp.

Obviously I have no intention in testing the nerves of train crews in my area, but I was curious if there were things I could do when I'm out watching the tracks that would help the crew know what I was up to. Any advise or feedback would be appriciated and be taken into consideration the next time I'm out enjoying my hobby.

[daveklepper]

You are a very considerate person, and I give you tremendous respect.

Crews at railway museums (and I put in many hours running streetcars at Branford, CT), are of course used to railfans close to the tracks. I would imagine this is also true of crews running by Rochelle Park and other known railfan gathering points, as well specific scenic opportunities like Castle Gate on the D&RGW UP line. Otherwise?

[heavyd]

Well general paranoya, (spelling) will have any crew worried. A person getting hit by a train is generally messy and the train crew has to go out to find the person or what is left of them. But I also know what is too close. I have been watching trains for years aswell. Then my dream came true a couple years ago and I worked for the railroad. When I got out to do a roll-by inspection I got in trouble by my instructors that I was standing way too close to watch the train go by. I never told them I was a railfan and watched trains like this all the time before. They told me I should be a good 20 feet away at least with a clear path to RUN if I need to or don't even bother getting out to do the inspection in the first place. Railroaders have a different kind of respect for trains than we do. They DON'T trust them. Trains can derail anytime - anywhere! Stuff falls off of cars all the time! I was told that empty cars are more dangerous than loaded ones! Take an empty center beam car for example, it usually has a bunch of that thin metal banding wire used to hold the wood in place flapping around in the wind. Box cars can have doors with broken hinges or rollers and catch the wind come off, what ever... If you are standing too close you can get decapitated very easily. We also experience times when people are going to throw something at us or shot at us. Some kids dare each other to cross right in front of the train. The list goes on. The next time you are out train watching try to see how far away other employees stand and then you should add another 5 feet to that.

[spbed]

A BNSF dectecive informed me when he was moving me back from the tracks @ Colton that I was reported by radio by a train crew taping their & to use his words was to close to the tracks. He contended that the 1st 80' from end of track belonged to the RR. Have no idea if that is corrcet but that is what the BNSF *** told me.

[Anonymous]

Usually a camera in hand tells me all I need to know. If there was someone standing extremely close to the tracks, then I would become concerned. Please stand at least 30 feet from passing trains. There are all kinds of nasty things that can happen, and when you are close to a train you have very little chance of avoiding such nasty suprises. I refuse to stand on the opposite side when inspecting a train, I get on the ground and stand behind my locomotive underneath the engineer's window. I have asked several officials on the subject and they have had no problem with my actions. Every box car could have a faulty door on it waiting to fall off, or a lumber car could have a strap that's just ready to snap and when a metal strap comes flying at you at high velocity it acts much like a sword. Just be careful and use common sense.

[Mookie]

With all the modern cameras available and the zoom lens that can spot a gnat from 1000 feet away, why would anyone have to get that close? Don't figure you have to be nose to nose to "see" something that big.....

Moo

[Anonymous]

Mike--

I agree with n_stephenson. Stay back at least 30 feet. If you have a camera in your hand it does ease my mind to a degree, but I've seen railfans do stupid things too. Mookie is 100% right about today's cameras. There's no reason to get right up close anymore, and in fact you'll probably get better pictures if you don't.

Another thing that comes to mind is that you should leave the kids at home until they're old enough to act responsibly. I fully realize that some people never get to that point, so in fact don't bring ANYONE who lacks common sense. That also includes pets. A lot of guys take their dog everywhere with them, for example. If you must, then keep 'em on a leash. A short leash.

Lastly, thanks for asking the question. The very fact that you understand the need to ask it tells me that you're smarter than the average bear. That being said, my final piece of advise is this: If you're moving at all, be moving away from the rails. If you're moving toward them, my heart rate is climbing very rapidly, but if you're moving away, I'm breathing a little easier. Remember that even railroaders get hurt and even killed on the job, so ANYONE near the right of way is reason for concern.

--JD Nomad

[Anonymous]

I appreciate all of the advise. I'm grateful for such a forum to reach those of you with the feedback I'm looking for. Many of the thoughts you've shared are some of the same that I've had, but reading it from those in the business really helps to drive home the idea of always keeping safety in mind around the railroad. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

So the crew knows that you aren't going to jump in front of them, just get a red flag and wave it to them as they go by, just so they know you're there....

....actually maybe that isn't too good an idea. [:-,]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

So the crew knows that you aren't going to jump in front of them, just get a red flag and wave it to them as they go by, just so they know you're there....

....actually maybe that isn't too good an idea. [:-,]

I could be wrong, but I think waving anything red at a train is the official emergency signal, telling the train to stop.[:D]

[Anonymous]

I hate it when people are too close to the track. My heart skips a beat with the thought that someone might make a mistake. I am a railfan and a railroader. Watch the railroaders, you will see that they step way back. Loads like coal can fling chunks off at any time. Stay away from switches. That's where things come off the tracks. Even the wind coming off a fast moving train can blow you over if you are too close. When I have to walk a train, say for a overheated brake, not only do I monitor my radio but I specifically request the engineer to give me a heads up when anything is approaching. AMTRACK going by at 79 mph is a very disturbing thing indeed.!! I see a lot of questions about why railroader don't like railfans. The reason is that we know how easy it is to get killed around the machinery and when you take a risk, it ads a lot of stress to our lives. I have nightmares about the day when I have to climb out of my engine to see the results. I also know that the day will indeed come. geoff. stay safe!!!!

[jabrown1971]

Here is a perfect example of anything can fall off at anytime-In December 1995 I was a dispatcher for the Indiana Rail Road. A northbound coal train was nearing Morgantown, In when the train went into emergency. The crew walked the train and could not find anything wrong on the west side, when they came up the east side of the train they found the culprit.............a strong gust of wind had blown an empty bad order car off the track and onto its side. Had anyone been standing trackside within 50 feet of the R-O-W they would have been killed. Ironically the remaining cars, heavy with coal stayed on the track and actually coupled up to the other loads ahead. Instead of 49 loads, 1 empty, the train showed up at the power plant with 49 loads, 0 empites. After connecting air hoses and building the air the train continued on.

[edblysard]

See GCOR rule:

5.3.4 Signal to Stop
Any object waved violently by any person on or near the track is a signal to stop.

Red flags are a warning to train crews that something is wrong.

If you are just holding one, and standing near the tracks, odds are the train will stop.

Ready to explain to a POed crew why you flagged them down?

Ed[8D]

[BNSFGP38]

When I am operating at the train museum its not the railfans that scare me, its the unattended children. More than once when pulling into the station has a child come running into the gauge.
[:(!]

[Anonymous]

It used to be that stations had a yellow line painted on platforms for people to stay behind when trains were passing. At age 12, I'd sit on my hometown station platform with my toes on the line- to keep the stationmaster happy- and be deafened by a high speed (40 mph) express going by. Now the ACELA goes through my hometown at speed... I wouldn't toe the line when that happened... probably because I'm older, wiser, and have a good idea of the heart attacks the engineer on board would suffer.

The tips offered by the pros here are good ones I learned from... Thanks!

Erik

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by erikthered
The tips offered by the pros here are good ones I learned from... Thanks!

Erik

That was my hope, I've learned a lot along with everybody else. Hope we can all keep safety in mind first when out enjoying our hobby, just like the pros who do it as their career.

[alcodave]

i never really thought about some of that stuff happening i guess ill start paying attention to how close i get from now on.

[Justicar]

Mike, yeah, I'd agree with most of what has been said. Personally, I don't get too nervous about people around the track, but then again I haven't had to deal with hitting anyone yet. If you don't really look like a kid and you have a camera and seem to be looking my way then I'm not going to worry. You seem to have common sense and I think as long as you apply that when your around the right-of-way you'll be fine.

BTW, nice photos....your obviously very gifted. Keep up the good work. We'd like to have you around for a long time capturing the artistry of rail photography.

good times....

PS Very nice, clean web design. Drop me a line if I can be of assistance.

[Anonymous]

Lets put it this way, the closer you get, the more nervous we get. You never know when someone is going to dart in front of the train at the last minute.

[daveklepper]

Children running into the gauge. Yes, normal streetcar motorman training on conventional streetcars includes: If you need to stop and the brakes have failed shut off power, throw the reverse key into reverse, and apply one point of power. (On a four motored car you DON'T have to apply the one point of power, but who in an emergency is going to stop to think whether he/she is running a four-motor or two-motor streetcar?)

That is why sometime ago when I saw an article on the AT&SF diesel looking like it was about to fly over the highway boardering the bumping posts at LA Union, I wondered, why didn't the engineer try to reverse the locomotive? (Maybe not possible with today's microprocessor controls, but back then?

Any ideas?

[wabash1]

it does not bother me anymore if someone gets on the tracks while i am approaching them. if they stay there i will hit them. if someone is standing there holding a camera i get pissed. i dont want my picture taken and the picture taken could be used to fire a crew. If you take a picture of me on a engine and they see i am smoking i can get fired. simple as that those pictures can be used against a crew. In other words if i see you taking a picture close to the tracks i will report you as a treaspasser and have you arrested if you are away from the tracks there not much i can do about it. but by all rights you picture takers should ask if you could have the pic first. its my choice not yours.

[Anonymous]

I respect your opinion but I don't see the railfans stopping their hobby anytime soon. Obviously I'm not trying to get you fired, but if that's what you're worried about...I'm not sure how I have any control over that.

[wabash1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vandenbm

I respect your opinion but I don't see the railfans stopping their hobby anytime soon. Obviously I'm not trying to get you fired, but if that's what you're worried about...I'm not sure how I have any control over that.

Your original statement was better but now that you changed it i will reply . I gave you my opinion I know it was not what you was looking for . But it is the truth. we have delt with this before on this forum about 2 years ago and the reply from me is the same . if you get close i will have you arrested. dont hide behind the its my hobby ill do as i wi***hing. if i dont like my picture taken i should not have to put up with buffs doing just that. now on the other hand i have let kids with their parents on the engine and have given rides to them also . i am not against railfans just camera people.

[Anonymous]

Here in the U.K rules are different. If anyone is found near the track it is reported to the signaller and trains are on a go slow past the point you were seen causing massive delays until you are moved on. But i would say if you could wear hi-visibility clothing and the further away from the track you are can only be a good and safe thing for all parties. All the best

[Anonymous]

Like other railroader here.......I say must the same thing.

1/ Usually you "can pick 'em" that is, the genuine foamers from the raving nutters. Railfans generally have railfan equipment, sometimes wear "train-deflecting jackets", usually look friendly etc etc. And, they're the most common "bystander" in rural areas besides the main. In metropolitan areas however, I'm much more cautious, even way down here in Australia we have our fair share of loopies standing by the right-of-way.

2/ Take the advice, stand well back, you just never know when something's gunna' fall off a freight car. Load-shifts, damaged brake rodding, even a hanging bit of wire will cut you in half or kill you instantly. When I was a young Fireman 20 years, ago my "regular-mate" (the Locomotive Driver who was my "buddy" on the roster) always got out of the "seat" when we passed another freight train on "his side" of the cab; especially at night, even when the "track centres" were far apart. I continue this practice today and teach the up-n-commin' kids the same thing. I've seem locomotive cabs speared like olives in a martini!!!!

3/ Respect us and we'll respect YOU (mostly of course - like any workplace, we do have our few "sad" cases). Even though many Engineers are fans to some degree or another, the difference between us and "civillian" fans (you) is that this is our craft, our profession, the way we pay our way through life, slave for "the bank" etc. Reverse the situation you put yourselves in to your own work environments and ponder your reaction to me hanging around your workplace (with good if somewhat occasionally misguided actions). How would you expect me to behave? ......With respect for you and your colleagues I expect???

4/ Remember that most of us have had the occasional fatality. Some of us cope better than others but even the best men (and women) Engineers (and other in-cab crew members) end up with their hearts in their throats occasionally. Daily, we have to contend with "Darwin Award Winning" & moronic members of the public putting their lives on the line - therefore, it's probably reasonable to expect a higher standard of behaviour from "our" railfans than from the "masses".

5/ Consider that to me, anything beside the track, especially if it's moving towards the right-of-way is a potential risk to my train, my income, and the safety of myself and my assistant/conductor/trainee. Consider that every additional trackside or "in-cab" event is yet another distraction from my primary duty of wielding the throttle, dynamics and Uncle George in a manner that ensures the absolute safety of the employees, other members of the public, my employers equipment and the customers cargo. Signals, track geometry, in-train forces & slack, data loggers, Issac Newton & most of all the "Inquiry Board", don't "give me an "automatic discount" for the distraction caused by the few irresponsible ones amongst a great group of people when I make a scramble of my 5000 tonne egg! (yeah - our Aussie trains are "babies" compared to yours ;-)
Unlike "Train-simulator" there is no "reset game" button!!!

Happy Railfanning! :-)

Sean
Locomotive Driver
Melbourne Australia.

[CSXrules4eva]

Hay Mr sean.kelly I agree w/ ya 100 percent on this issue. I'm not a railroader yet I'm a student diesel mechinest and happen to be a train freak. The tips or rules you listed are very percise and accurate. No one wants to hut anybody out there on the rails. Many railroaders engineers, conductors ect. . . . . get concerned when they see someone near the tracks because they don't want to run them over. They just want to do their job in a safe satisfactory mannor.
Some railfans and non railfans have respect for trains but, not to the degree of were they concider them a treat. Railroaders even if they are also railfans take everything about trains into concideration when it comes to safety. This is because, they were not only tought to be safe but, they have also seen horrible accidents happen. So, this proves that railroaders GREATLY respect trains.
So to all other railfans out there. . . . ..take all things into consideration when it comes to being around or near the railroad. Anything could happen!!!!!!!! Espually (spelling) w/ the size and power of trains these days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

dont hide behind the its my hobby ill do as i wi***hing.

I have no such feeling. Your opinion has caused much thought and consideration on my part. It's hard to know how one feels about a situation when all you can read is text and not hear the inflection in their voice. I in no way was discounting your opinion or trying to say I don't care what you have to say. I appreciate the feedback you have given.

[Anonymous]

Mike--

I knew I had you pegged right. You're a good guy and your response to wabash1 proves it. I'm not sure why he doesn't like cameras, but it really doesn't matter. I used to work with a guy who hated to have his picture taken, so this isn't something new to me. The guy I worked with couldn't ( or wouldn't ) say why he didn't like it, he just didn't. Wabash1 also brings out a good point about the occasional "unintended consequences" of an otherwise innocent picture. As both a railroader and a railfan I have to admit that his comments made me think, too. The question now seems to be how do we indulge our hobby without stepping on the rights of those who don't want to be photographed?

--JD

[wabash1]

to answer this question is simple if there is a siding in the area that you favor then talk with the crews most will let you have pics.( including me ) anyways you want( except i wont be in it) lights on or off you on or off the engine ( if posible) get the point. also there is a guy who use to take pictures of us moving at high speed. he got to know many crews and which ones didnt like thier pics taken. ( he used a scanner and listen in) like i said i dont care about what you take a picture of as long as i am not in it. the reason why i dont like my picture taken ...I cant pin point it maybe i was on a wanted poster in a past life.. who knows it just something i dont like . the few pics i have had taken ( drivers lic railroad id card , mug shot , ) I am not on here to make waves as it might seem. just putting things in a differant light. and opening the possibilities.... and if nothing else showing how bad i can spell. and to give a correct answer to any questions i can.

now as ed would say stay frosty

[Anonymous]

I'm just happy to have a forum such as this to find answers to my questions whether I had thought of the answer before or not. So, many thanks again wabash1 and you can rest assured I'm frosty as ever here in MN. Safe travels!