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The Queen is dead long live British Rail!

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Posted by selector on Friday, September 16, 2022 5:13 PM

Not to put too fine a point on't, the Prime Minster-elect petitions Her Majesty, now His Majesty, to form the government.  She/He gives his/her assent via his/...oh to heck with it....the Crown gives its assent via the Governor General, whom the PM also proposed to the Crown.  IOW, an attaboy/girl (gosh this is annoying) for some highly regarded person, almost always closely aligned with the politics of the governing party.  As one left-leaning academic and philosopher (sorry, I repeat myself) opined when criticizing the Canadian Senate, it is a taskless thanks. I can't argue, but the fact is the Canadian Senate has been a bit rough on the PM the past few years.  A welcome change.

The PM also gets to appoint Senators and Supreme Court Judges.  I think he also has a major hand in appointing the Chief of the Defence Staff (correct spulling). The Governor General is quite busy and usually popular enough to be in high demand. 

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, September 15, 2022 2:48 PM

Yes, the prime minister in the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc. are the head of government. The monarch or their viceroy is the ceremonial head of state. In the UK, when parliament passes a law, the monarch signs it to make it official. It's not optional, doesn't matter if they approve or not. When the King Charles opens next year's parliament, the speech he gives will have been written by the Prime Minister. The King or Queen hasn't had any real power for well over a century...I think back to the reforms made during the reign of Edward VII, which also limited the power of the House of Lords.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, September 15, 2022 2:26 AM

SD60MAC9500
 

 

 
Overmod

He is including the Dominion of Canada as part of the British ex-empire, and indeed I believe Queen Elizabeth remained Canada's reigning sovereign until Charles III.

She was Queen of Canada during the entire development period of the Avro Arrow.

 

 

 

Hence Canada's use of a Prime Minister who's not the head of state. Just the head of Canada's cabinet. Being they are a non-republic commonwealth nation.

 
 
 

Prime Minister is head of the government, not just his cabinet. 

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Posted by 54light15 on Thursday, September 15, 2022 12:08 AM

Ernest Marples owned a paving company. He was the Minister of Transport. Beeching wrote the report on what lines could be done away and Marples carried it out. Beeching's report wasn't exactly set in stone and many lines could have been saved but Marples acted as if it was a done deal. Barbara Castle was the Minister of Transport after Marples was out and she carried out the closing of lines and this happened up until the time that Harold Wilson was the PM. 

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Posted by anglecock on Wednesday, September 14, 2022 4:44 PM

Canada has a number of "Crown Corperations" which  technically are goverment corperations that are run in the Queens Name,CN Rail was a Crown Corperation untill its privatisation.

The American Version is "The Authority" which are semi public corperations run by the state that have there own bonding authority and whose board members appionted directly by the Governor and or President. Goverment Conrail,Tennasee Valley Authority and Amtrak are such examples.

 

 
Flintlock76

 

 
wjstix

Pretty sure ViaRail didn't consult with Her Majesty when choosing equipment....??

 

 

 

Canada DID have to get Her Majesty's approval before they dropped the Red Ensign for the current Maple Leaf flag. 

Canada's had quite a few colorful and dramatic flags over the years.  Have a look!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_flags 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure they didn't, but she was known for being knowledgeable and more than up to speed on many files, sometimes to the detriment of those who met her unprepared. I wouldn't be surprised if she did have more than a basic understanding of VIA's plans..

 

[/quote]

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Posted by anglecock on Wednesday, September 14, 2022 4:16 PM

Googleing Ernest Marples it would seem he was the Robert B Moses (of New York State) of his era and Great Britain who believed in Mega Road and Highway projects

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, September 14, 2022 9:47 AM

54light15
The Pullman car that the king and queen toured Canada on in 1939 is in Toronto and is being restored, as I understand it. it's owned by the guy who owns Rapido Trains, a model train manufacturer who makes in HO and N, perfect models of Canadian prototypes. OK, so it's not about Elizabeth but what the hell.

Very possible that she was on board the train, though... in fact I seem to remember that she was.

There's a picture of what I believe is this consist on p.216 of Staufer's Thoroughbreds, going up the Hudson behind one of the Dreyfuss-styled Hudsons.  Now THAT was traveling!

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, September 14, 2022 4:06 AM

SD60MAC9500
 

 

 
Overmod

He is including the Dominion of Canada as part of the British ex-empire, and indeed I believe Queen Elizabeth remained Canada's reigning sovereign until Charles III.

She was Queen of Canada during the entire development period of the Avro Arrow.

 

 

 

Hence Canada's use of a Prime Minister who's not the head of state. Just the head of Canada's cabinet. Being they are a non-republic commonwealth nation.

 
 
 

There is still a Governor General who acts on behalf of the monarch. 

Wiki:Canada is described as a "full democracy",[159] with a tradition of liberalism,[160] and an egalitarian,[161] moderate political ideology.

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 8:30 PM
 

Overmod

He is including the Dominion of Canada as part of the British ex-empire, and indeed I believe Queen Elizabeth remained Canada's reigning sovereign until Charles III.

She was Queen of Canada during the entire development period of the Avro Arrow.

 

Hence Canada's use of a Prime Minister who's not the head of state. Just the head of Canada's cabinet. Being they are a non-republic commonwealth nation.

 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 11:05 AM

Overmod
 
Backshop
Yes, I know that.  I know that it is strictly an honorary role.

 

But one that makes it legitimate to discuss Canadian developments in a discussion of the Queen's reign.

 

True, as long as it's clear that the changes made to the railways in the UK and Canada just coincidently happened during her reign, she wasn't directly or really even indirectly involved.

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Posted by 54light15 on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 10:35 AM

The Pullman car that the king and queen toured Canada on in 1939 is in Toronto and is being restored, as I understand it. it's owned by the guy who owns Rapido Trains, a model train manufacturer who makes in HO and N, perfect models of Canadian prototypes. OK, so it's not about Elizabeth but what the hell. 

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 8:14 AM

Backshop
Yes, I know that.  I know that it is strictly an honorary role.

But one that makes it legitimate to discuss Canadian developments in a discussion of the Queen's reign.

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Posted by Backshop on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 7:40 AM

Overmod

He is including the Dominion of Canada as part of the British ex-empire, and indeed I believe Queen Elizabeth remained Canada's reigning sovereign until Charles III.

She was Queen of Canada during the entire development period of the Avro Arrow.

 

Yes, I know that.  I know that it is strictly an honorary role.

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, September 13, 2022 12:27 AM

Not wishing to get too far off topic, here is some (brief) footage of the 1954 Royal Tour showing the Royal Train arriving in Newcastle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwwxwBT8CUs

This was the first train painted in the Indian Red colours that became standard for all trains until 1980. The locomotives are RSC-3s built in Montreal. They would normally be painted green, but were repainted blue for the Royal Tour. The train was used for other journeys during the tour.

In the full tour documentary, the  NSW Royal Train is seen at 45:55 descending the mountains crossing Knapsack Viaduct returning to Sydney from the West.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_EXTWvPDeQ

There is also coverage of the Victorian broad gauge Royal train at 49:40. This was hauled by locomotives B60 and B85, model ML-2 built by Clyde Engineering in Sydney. B60 still exists, rebuilt to an AAT22C-2R, basically with the machinery of an SD39-2.

Peter

 

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Monday, September 12, 2022 9:55 PM

SD70Dude

As has been making the rounds lately, the then-Princess's first Canadian tour was steam powered, and she got to run CN 6057 (a U-1-e class 4-8-2) for a stretch east of Edson, Alberta. 

Considering that she spent the latter part of WW2 working in the Motor Pool, I'm not surprised that she would have a liking for things mechanical.

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Posted by M636C on Monday, September 12, 2022 9:22 PM
It has been a long time.
I expected Queen Elizabeth to outlive her mother, who famously lived to 101, but this was not the case.
Here in Australia coins with the Queen’s image have increased in value since her death, even though they will presumably continue to be minted until the new designs for Charles III are prepared, presumably with the date of 2023.
 I remember going to the 1953 Coronation celebrations. It is one of my earliest clear memories. Our neighbour drove us all down to Kirribilli, parking the Humber Super Snipe on the grass under the Harbour Bridge approaches. Imagine doing that today.... There were the usual fireworks over the harbour, but not on the bridge itself as occurs today. The RAN flagship HMAS Australia was illuminated with lightbulbs marking its complete outline, including its three funnels, I recall having this ship drawn to my attention, noting the three funnels, although there were several other ships similarly decorated.
For the 1954 Royal Visit we were allowed on the roof of my father's offices in George Street, from where we had a very clear view of the Queen and Prince Philip, as they drove past in a black open Daimler. The Queen was wearing a daffodil yellow dress. I didn’t see the Royal Train, although 4001 and the GG car were displayed for the Railway Centenary in 1955. Both locomotives (Montreal built RSC-3s are preserved, 4001 restored to the blue colour it carried for the Royal Tour))

The next Royal visit was in 1963. The Queen had flown to Australia, but travelled from Adelaide to Sydney on the Royal Yacht Britannia, which was escorted into the Sydney International Terminal by the destroyer HMAS ANZAC on Saturday 2nd March. I realised that good photographs could be obtained from Circular Quay station, the arrival from the City Outer platform, and the Queen herself from the City Inner platform, as she passed in a glass topped maroon Rolls Royce (it was raining, unlike 1954).

I think the last time I actually attended a royal visit was the opening of the Naval Memorial on ANZAC Parade in Canberra, which I recall as being 1982. This was walking distance from my home.
As I noted above, the locomotives from the 1954 NSW Royal Train have both been preserved. 4001 is at Thirlmere, but 4002 is in Karratha in Western Australia and is at risk, stored in the open. I’m surprised that it and the other items there have survived as well as they have. Perhaps now would be a good time to rescue these items and perhaps bring 4002 back to NSW.

Peter
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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, September 12, 2022 9:08 PM

Flintlock76

 

 
wjstix

Pretty sure ViaRail didn't consult with Her Majesty when choosing equipment....??

 

 

 

Canada DID have to get Her Majesty's approval before they dropped the Red Ensign for the current Maple Leaf flag. 

Canada's had quite a few colorful and dramatic flags over the years.  Have a look!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_flags 

 

 

 

I'm sure they didn't, but she was known for being knowledgeable and more than up to speed on many files, sometimes to the detriment of those who met her unprepared. I wouldn't be surprised if she did have more than a basic understanding of VIA's plans..

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, September 12, 2022 8:53 PM

tree68

I would opine that, aside from a few insinuations of dark deeds, the reign of QEII was relatively benign.

Yes, a lot did happen while she was queen, but much of it was the result of larger circumstances than she had control over.

Just my take.

 

 

Yes, she was a good queen. No scandals..she was always careful to not insert herself into current events and public discourse. She maintained the proverbial stiff upper lip throughout her 70 year reign. Let's hope King Charles learns to rein in his own irritability and pompousness going forward...his mom will be a tough act to follow. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, September 12, 2022 6:03 PM

wjstix

Pretty sure ViaRail didn't consult with Her Majesty when choosing equipment....??

 

Canada DID have to get Her Majesty's approval before they dropped the Red Ensign for the current Maple Leaf flag. 

Canada's had quite a few colorful and dramatic flags over the years.  Have a look!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_flags 

 

 

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, September 12, 2022 4:30 PM

Pretty sure ViaRail didn't consult with Her Majesty when choosing equipment....??

Stix
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Posted by tree68 on Monday, September 12, 2022 2:50 PM

I would opine that, aside from a few insinuations of dark deeds, the reign of QEII was relatively benign.

Yes, a lot did happen while she was queen, but much of it was the result of larger circumstances than she had control over.

Just my take.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, September 12, 2022 2:44 PM

Overmod

He is including the Dominion of Canada as part of the British ex-empire, and indeed I believe Queen Elizabeth remained Canada's reigning sovereign until Charles III.

She was Queen of Canada during the entire development period of the Avro Arrow.

This is correct, and we had a ceremony in Ottawa the other day to officially proclaim His Majesty as our new head of state.  

As has been making the rounds lately, the then-Princess's first Canadian tour was steam powered, and she got to run CN 6057 (a U-1-e class 4-8-2) for a stretch east of Edson, Alberta.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUcqZH0M0jQ

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, September 12, 2022 1:56 PM

anglecock

In her Majesty Reign we have seen- The Beeching Act (cut British rail trackage in half), Intercity 125 (Tilting trains that made people sick),Pacer Railbuses(short one car RDCs that also made people sick from fumes), Docklands Light Railway, The Chunnel Tunnel, VIA Rail Canada  (Also had LRC leaning trains that did not work) Semi Privatization of British Rail and ending of most streetcar service in London, Closing and reopening of Victoria Station and feel free to add your own to this list.

 

Jet travel, men landing on the moon, and the invention of the  iphone also occurred during her reign..

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, September 12, 2022 10:51 AM

He is including the Dominion of Canada as part of the British ex-empire, and indeed I believe Queen Elizabeth remained Canada's reigning sovereign until Charles III.

She was Queen of Canada during the entire development period of the Avro Arrow.

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, September 12, 2022 10:34 AM

What does the queen have to do with Via Rail? Anglecock is trolling again.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, September 12, 2022 10:27 AM

It was not the HST that made people sick, it was the APT (which was a far more sophisticated design, but that no one in Britain needed at the price involved.  The Pacers, aside from making me sick just thinking about their cheapness, made people sick with that silly rocking-horse ride.  They made some sense as they were originally intended, as a stopgap for real trains.  The problem was that no one wanted to pay for the real trains...

Carter actually brought one of the railbuses over here, where it was slated to run 100mph testing on the NEC; if you thought the New Haven lightweight trains of the future were cheap, I have something cheaper to show you.  The ride was not that bad, but the build quality (as with other things from that era, especially from Britain) left quite a bit to be desired.  Apparently it has now been ignominiously scrapped; it deserved far better.

LRC tilted effectively; there was just never any real need to use it.  The dedicated locomotives, much as I love them, were an even worse boondoggle than the FM Speed Merchants.

You should have mentioned Harrow, not long after her reign began, and Hatfield, which led to so much stuff (including, of all things, a rather good play).  And wreck after wreck after wreck at the same goofy location on the ECML, the situation as yet STILL being kludged around rather than fixed (via a line diversion).

And what about the Elizabeth Line?

We wouldn't have the heritage railways without Beeching.  And remember that there was a blanket ban on private steam, run by ASLEF or not, on BR metals in the post-steam Sixties.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, September 12, 2022 10:15 AM

Lord Beeching will long be remembered (and reviled) for the massive cuts in the British Railways network (not unlike Conrail some years later) that were probably necessary.  He did manage to drag British Rail into the second half of the 20th Century poised for the future.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, September 12, 2022 10:14 AM

Agree 100%

And she did open the new Tram System in London's Croyden.

Don't forget the Isle of Man!

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Posted by 54light15 on Monday, September 12, 2022 9:48 AM

Consider the many heritage railways in Britain- there is no end to them. if you need to breathe coal smoke, steam and hot oil, it's available just 2 hours from central London. Consider all the new tram systems in places like Manchester and Nottingham.

My friends over there complain about the fares, the soulessness of Euston station and the "plastic crap" of the Virgin trains on the West coast main line.  The rail system of Britain is amazing to me; Beeching and Ernest Marples notwithstanding. 

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