The movie has scenes set in 1918, 1933 (end of prohibition) and 1968 - kinda goes back and forth, not linear. Anyway, even the earliest scene is a decade after steam was banned on Manhattan.
p.s. The engine and cars are clearly French - I wonder if the cars weren't the ones from the restored then (1984) recently restored Orient Express?
Judging by the Times headlines, this was set at the time of Prohibition repeal. Someone sharp might be able to resolve the actual date from the headlines.
Everything in that shot is European except for the unprototypical New York Central oval stickers... and the track sign saying "New York".
There are paintings of older French power in the Gare du Nord by one of the famous French artists -- not Monet at the Gare St. Lazare...
samfp1943 NYC area railroadf switching and dock and wharehouse railroad related activities
Not an expert in the area and don't claim to be, but the Brooklyn Eastern District Terminal railroad (B.E.D.T) operated steam switchers up until 1962.
One survives today on the Strasburg Rail Road rebuilt into a slick live-steam version of Thomas The Tank Engine!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfgwySTdpv0
There may be other B.E.D.T steam survivors out there but I'm not aware of any.
IN this Thread posted by (Dale) nanaimo73, re: "Steam in NYC" I would like to point those with any level of interest in the railroads of the NYC area to a 'members' site(trainweb) which hosts an extremely,(IMHO) interesting website.
It is authored by Mr. Phillip M.Goldstein, and a number of other contributors; the site is concerned with a number of NYC area railroad switching and dock and wharehouse railroad related activities. The site contains a number of interesting, and inter-related NYC railroad activities. The base linked site is
@ http://www.trainweb.org/bedt/IndustrialLocos.html
Some time back, Mike McDonbald (wanswheel) had pointed me to it; and I have found it to be both interesting, informative, and worth the exporation.
[Added, P.S. ] Samfp1943-[deletedd paragraph to move to its own Thread- re: *Buckwalter rubber tired sitching trucks*]
Thanks, Beausabre. I knew someone would pop up with more info!
A couple more resources:
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
That guy on the horse has a hat like Tom Mix!
The New York Central was not known to conduct logging operations, but its 1940 roster listed five Shay type locomotives, Nos. 7185-7189 (originally numbered 1896-1900). They were built in 1923 by Lima Locomotive Works for use on the West Side freight line in New York City, chiefly on street trackage on 10th and 11th Avenues. An old city ordinance required them to be covered to avoid frightening horses, and they also had to be preceded by a horse and rider when operating in the street. When most of the street trackage was removed and the West Side line was electrified around 1932, the Shays were replaced by box-cab diesels that could also run from third-rail electrification or on battery power (class DES). The Shays were transferred to western New York State for use on the Genessee Falls Railway, an industrial line in Rochester, and the Owasco River Railway, with trackage around Auburn — both NYC subsidiaries. (Thanks to Gordon Davids, Wayne Koch and an unidentified respondent for much of this background information.)
The NYC Shays had three 12x12-inch cylinders that, through the gears, drove 36-inch wheels. They weighed 139,400 pounds, and with 200 p.s.i. of boiler pressure they developed 27,320 pounds of tractive effort. This broadside view of No. 7189 was taken in March 1940, in snow-covered Auburn, New York by an unknown photographer. (Note: The image has been digitally altered to remove a water standpipe which appeared to be a part of the coal bunker, but was actually behind the locomotive.) This NYC oddity was taken out of service in 1942 and scrapped in 1944."
54light15 Isn't that Gare St. Lazaire?
I got curious and looked up "Once Upon A Time In America." It's the Gare du Nord.
Prior to the ban, the railroad had covered the locos used on the west side (Shays?) so they looked like coaches, so as not to scare the horses quite as badly.
This was also the domain of the 10th and 11th Street cowboys, who rode ahead of the trains to warn people of their presence. There were still a lot of accidents (and fatalities).
IIRC, NY state law banned steam locomotives in NYC effective 1908. This law had lead to the Central's crash program to electrify GCT.
The CN box cabs didn't have much resemblance to any of the GCT electrics.
Until Amtrak, there WAS steam in GC Station. But NOT propulsion. NYC's electric locomotives had steam generators for train heat. PRR's GG1's had oil fired steam generators for train heat.
That was a beautiful film clip.
I never even noticed the SNCF on the other train! I guess the film-makers did their job well! Even though I knew it wasn't right I was still captivated by what I saw.
Those coaches were knockouts all right!
I like how at 1:51 you can see SNCF on the train on the right. Isn't that Gare St. Lazaire? Those Wagon Lits coaches are beautiful, aren't they?
Flintlock is correct.
Beautifully shot scene, and I have to give the film-makers credit for trying to recreate the era and atmosphere, but anyone who knows anything about GCT and the New York Central knows that's not GCT or the Central, it's Europe.
That being said steam locomotives were totally banned in Manhattan by the 1930's, they were banned in tunnels prior to WW1 but there was steam powered freight service down the West Side into the 1920's. I don't believe steam was ever banned in the other four boroughs.
I'm not a CN fan but I don't think CN's electrics looked anything at all like the NYC's.
There is a scene in the movie Once Upon a Time in America (shot in Paris) which shows a train leaving GCT in 1938 pulled by a steam locomotive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMF7w9LdPEA
Were steam locomotives banned from all of New York City during that period? If so, then presumably Central would have used an electric to haul passenger trains outside the city to where steam would have taken over?
This was the only scene in the movie shot in France, while several scenes were shot up in Montreal, where CN was still running electrics at that time. Did CN's electrics look similar to the electrics used in New York during 1938?
Thanks!
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