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STB disclosure orders now revealing some secrets

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, October 10, 2022 11:42 AM

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Thursday, June 23, 2022 7:42 AM

SD60MAC9500
 

 

 
PNWRMNM

 

 
SD60MAC9500
 

Hmmmm...

Since grain cars are auctioned by the C1's and come with a guaranteed service contract of performance...

Example.. The highest bidder to a trainset of let's say 125 cars. Gets a guaranteed delivery window of said available trainset.. 

Wonder how the system is working now...

 

 

 

In the case of BNSF the guaranteed program is called 'Certificate of Transportation'. They are sold in an auction market and buyers can sell to other buyers. The point of the program is to allow the railroad to earn a premium rate when demand is high and to ration cars to the customers who need them the most. Simple allocation by price. 

Last I knew only a portion of the fleet is marketed as COTS, which are contracts.

The balance of the fleet is still in the tariff market. Here shippers place orders for cars with a want date. BNSF fills tariff orders as they are able. When cars are surplus, tariff orders are filled in a timely manner. When cars are short, orders are filled by want date, oldest first.

When cars get short, shippers often over order on the theory that they will at least get something. That artificially inflates the unfilled order count. Last I knew, which was years ago, BNSF started to charge a cancellation penalty in an attempt to limit deliberate over ordering. I do not know how well that worked or if they are still doing it.

Yes, carriers get behind on filling orders from time to time, but I take all claims of car shortages with lots of salt. 

Mac McCulloch 

 

 

 

Thanks for the info Mac on BNSF's COTS. I figured some hoppers still moved under tariff's. For those under tariff does this include trainsets for shuttle loaders as well? 

 
 

[quote user="SD60MAC9500"]

 

I believe it does.

Mac

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Wednesday, June 22, 2022 8:33 PM
 

PNWRMNM

 

 
SD60MAC9500
 

Hmmmm...

Since grain cars are auctioned by the C1's and come with a guaranteed service contract of performance...

Example.. The highest bidder to a trainset of let's say 125 cars. Gets a guaranteed delivery window of said available trainset.. 

Wonder how the system is working now...

 

 

 

In the case of BNSF the guaranteed program is called 'Certificate of Transportation'. They are sold in an auction market and buyers can sell to other buyers. The point of the program is to allow the railroad to earn a premium rate when demand is high and to ration cars to the customers who need them the most. Simple allocation by price. 

Last I knew only a portion of the fleet is marketed as COTS, which are contracts.

The balance of the fleet is still in the tariff market. Here shippers place orders for cars with a want date. BNSF fills tariff orders as they are able. When cars are surplus, tariff orders are filled in a timely manner. When cars are short, orders are filled by want date, oldest first.

When cars get short, shippers often over order on the theory that they will at least get something. That artificially inflates the unfilled order count. Last I knew, which was years ago, BNSF started to charge a cancellation penalty in an attempt to limit deliberate over ordering. I do not know how well that worked or if they are still doing it.

Yes, carriers get behind on filling orders from time to time, but I take all claims of car shortages with lots of salt. 

Mac McCulloch 

 

Thanks for the info Mac on BNSF's COTS. I figured some hoppers still moved under tariff's. For those under tariff does this include trainsets for shuttle loaders as well? 

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, June 22, 2022 4:58 PM

PNWRMNM
 
SD60MAC9500
 

Hmmmm...

Since grain cars are auctioned by the C1's and come with a guaranteed service contract of performance...

Example.. The highest bidder to a trainset of let's say 125 cars. Gets a guaranteed delivery window of said available trainset.. 

Wonder how the system is working now... 

In the case of BNSF the guaranteed program is called 'Certificate of Transportation'. They are sold in an auction market and buyers can sell to other buyers. The point of the program is to allow the railroad to earn a premium rate when demand is high and to ration cars to the customers who need them the most. Simple allocation by price. 

Last I knew only a portion of the fleet is marketed as COTS, which are contracts.

The balance of the fleet is still in the tariff market. Here shippers place orders for cars with a want date. BNSF fills tariff orders as they are able. When cars are surplus, tariff orders are filled in a timely manner. When cars are short, orders are filled by want date, oldest first.

When cars get short, shippers often over order on the theory that they will at least get something. That artificially inflates the unfilled order count. Last I knew, which was years ago, BNSF started to charge a cancellation penalty in an attempt to limit deliberate over ordering. I do not know how well that worked or if they are still doing it.

Yes, carriers get behind on filling orders from time to time, but I take all claims of car shortages with lots of salt. 

Mac McCulloch 

The 'Car Order Games'.  Probably the oldest game in railroading.  Cars that are tied to specific commodities end up in boom/bust cycles with those commodities.  The game has been playing for nearly two centuries.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Wednesday, June 22, 2022 3:36 PM

SD60MAC9500
 

Hmmmm...

Since grain cars are auctioned by the C1's and come with a guaranteed service contract of performance...

Example.. The highest bidder to a trainset of let's say 125 cars. Gets a guaranteed delivery window of said available trainset.. 

Wonder how the system is working now...

 

In the case of BNSF the guaranteed program is called 'Certificate of Transportation'. They are sold in an auction market and buyers can sell to other buyers. The point of the program is to allow the railroad to earn a premium rate when demand is high and to ration cars to the customers who need them the most. Simple allocation by price. 

Last I knew only a portion of the fleet is marketed as COTS, which are contracts.

The balance of the fleet is still in the tariff market. Here shippers place orders for cars with a want date. BNSF fills tariff orders as they are able. When cars are surplus, tariff orders are filled in a timely manner. When cars are short, orders are filled by want date, oldest first.

When cars get short, shippers often over order on the theory that they will at least get something. That artificially inflates the unfilled order count. Last I knew, which was years ago, BNSF started to charge a cancellation penalty in an attempt to limit deliberate over ordering. I do not know how well that worked or if they are still doing it.

Yes, carriers get behind on filling orders from time to time, but I take all claims of car shortages with lots of salt. 

Mac McCulloch 

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Posted by MP173 on Wednesday, June 22, 2022 3:14 PM

Welcome to the business world.  One can count on nothing being on time and accurate these days.  It is not just the railroads.  Most of my time in sales these days is managing "issues" rather than writing or generating sales.

In fact, my pet saying these days is..."I have bad news...received an order today."  Partly in jest, partly factual.  Never seen anything like this before.

Ed

  • Member since
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  • From: Sterling Heights, Michigan
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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Tuesday, June 21, 2022 11:13 PM
 

Hmmmm...

Since grain cars are auctioned by the C1's and come with a guaranteed service contract of performance...

Example.. The highest bidder to a trainset of let's say 125 cars. Gets a guaranteed delivery window of said available trainset.. 

Wonder how the system is working now...

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, June 21, 2022 9:15 PM

JayBee
Balt, that is the number of empty grain hoppers that BNSF contracted and failed to deliver to shippers in ND, in other words that is the cumulative backlog as of the date the statement was made.

None of which was stated in the article.  Numbers without context mean nothing.

So they were nominally 27.5 trains behind.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by JayBee on Tuesday, June 21, 2022 8:37 PM

Balt, that is the number of empty grain hoppers that BNSF contracted and failed to deliver to shippers in ND, in other words that is the cumulative backlog as of the date the statement was made.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, June 21, 2022 5:42 PM

charlie hebdo
It's clearly the backlog of undelivered (delayed) railroad cars at the point in time of the biweekly survey in SD. The remarks reported are from a pol and the BNSF CEO.  

To save you the job, so you don't have to: "figures lie" and "all politicians are crooks" which should  just about cover all the bases.

Without the number being further explained it means next to nothing that is actionable either by BNSF or governmental entities.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, June 21, 2022 4:44 PM

It's clearly the backlog of undelivered (delayed) railroad cars at the point in time of the biweekly survey in SD. The remarks reported are from a pol and the BNSF CEO.  

To save you the job, so you don't have to: "figures lie" and "all politicians are crooks" which should  just about cover all the bases.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, June 18, 2022 5:48 PM

blue streak 1
BNSF has just revealed its car backlog and the local news paper has picked it up.

BNSF backlog in ND hits 2,752 cars, causing issues for ag producers (msn.com) 

2752 cars - without a time and type context is next to meaningless.  Is that 27 100 car grain trains?  Is that 52 grain hauling BOX cars?  Is that per day?  Is that for the month?  What is BNSF saying that the cause is?  Crew Shortage?  Car Shortage?  Cars being held longer by customers?  Power shortage?

Poor reporting!

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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STB disclosure orders now revealing some secrets
Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, June 18, 2022 11:58 AM

BNSF has just revealed its car backlog and the local news paper has picked it up.

BNSF backlog in ND hits 2,752 cars, causing issues for ag producers (msn.com) 

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