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OIG takes FRA to woodshed

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, May 7, 2022 12:56 PM

You cannot blame the Biden administration for this report.  Report only went to data to May 2021.  That esentially is Trump's budget.

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, May 7, 2022 10:50 AM

mudchicken
Chasing down the defects behind the cars is still a struggle too.

I had the opportunity to ride an FRA test car a few years ago (I was the conductor of record).  The crew said that while the equipment was running on the way in to our dead end line, they only officially recorded the data on the way back out, lest they find a fatal defect and end up trapping themselves.

They found a few defects, but nothing critical.  I think I'd be worried if they found nothing - no line is going to be perfect..

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, May 4, 2022 9:10 PM

SD70Dude

And if the carriers ignore the inspection results or don't actually do the repairs properly, then what? 

http://tsb.gc.ca/eng/enquetes-investigations/rail/2019/R19W0050/R19W0050.html

 

Take it out of service.  A few years back the FRA shut down the single main track between Council Bluffs and Missouri Valley for multiple locations of defects.  I believe they all involved concrete ties.

Jeff

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, May 4, 2022 5:38 PM

The current one is no better. (but there it is again, interference from the financial side)...lean and mean has devolved to starving and stupid and the financial side claims it can't possibly be at fault/ won't admit the obviousBlindfold

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, May 4, 2022 5:36 PM

mudchicken
 
SD70Dude

And if the carriers ignore the inspection results or don't actually do the repairs properly, then what? 

http://tsb.gc.ca/eng/enquetes-investigations/rail/2019/R19W0050/R19W0050.html 

The "death sentence" a-la North Western Pacific RR in 1998 (parts of which NEVER reopened) 

Still waiting for "the rest of the story" on the FRA "brain drain", lack of staff, change of priorities (regions vs. specific railroads) and finally the issues with contract test car operator ENSCO (who IMHO was a poor performer ...test cars were notoriously bad for false defects and precision issues...really hope that is changing with the improved laser, real time computer processing and gyro technology)...

Chasing down the defects behind the cars is still a struggle too. There is an art to go along with the science of interpreting the recorded defects, especially the L/V force stuff.

My intuition tells me to question some of the OIG interpretation of the data it is manipulating as being not true to begin with.

I suspect the funding priorities of the prior administration did not help the FRA in implementing testing or analyzing data that of the testing that did get performed.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, May 4, 2022 4:58 PM

SD70Dude

And if the carriers ignore the inspection results or don't actually do the repairs properly, then what? 

http://tsb.gc.ca/eng/enquetes-investigations/rail/2019/R19W0050/R19W0050.html

 

The "death sentence" a-la North Western Pacific RR in 1998 (parts of which NEVER reopened)

Still waiting for "the rest of the story" on the FRA "brain drain", lack of staff, change of priorities (regions vs. specific railroads) and finally the issues with contract test car operator ENSCO (who IMHO was a poor performer ...test cars were notoriously bad for false defects and precision issues...really hope that is changing with the improved laser, real time computer processing and gyro technology)...

Chasing down the defects behind the cars is still a struggle too. There is an art to go along with the science of interpreting the recorded defects, especially the L/V force stuff. Any time the cars (federal or railroad) run, its an all hands on deck scenario. The feds don't have the flexibility that railroads do when stopping the car for the day when the surviving track forces are overwhelmed....the fed cars keep going. And then there is the burnout of the test car travelling staffs....

My intuition tells me to question some of the OIG interpretation of the data it is manipulating as being not true to begin with.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, May 4, 2022 2:31 PM

matthewsaggie
FIG?

Fort Indiantown Gap

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Posted by matthewsaggie on Wednesday, May 4, 2022 2:14 PM

FIG?

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, May 4, 2022 6:44 AM

SD70Dude
And if the carriers ignore the inspection results or don't actually do the repairs properly, then what? 

http://tsb.gc.ca/eng/enquetes-investigations/rail/2019/R19W0050/R19W0050.html

I can't speak to anything in Canada or anything beyond my experiences on CSX until I retired in December 2016.  

While I was working it was required to keep the block FOLLOWING the FRA Test Cars clear of following trains.  In many cases the local MofW force was following the FRA Test Car and making many of the fixes to conditions that the test car was finding.  Fixes that were beyond the ability of that local MofW group were scheduled in a near term calendar for additional manpower to resolve the issue.  If a defect was found that would cause to track to be taken out of service - it was MofW All Hands on Deck to repair the issue.

FRA Inspection results were taken very seriously when I was employed.  I can't attest to what CSX response has been since I retired and the darkness of PSR has overtaken CSX. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, May 4, 2022 4:36 AM

 

thanks.   

excellent report

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, May 4, 2022 12:00 AM

And if the carriers ignore the inspection results or don't actually do the repairs properly, then what? 

http://tsb.gc.ca/eng/enquetes-investigations/rail/2019/R19W0050/R19W0050.html

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, May 3, 2022 10:51 PM

SD70Dude
You can test every day and detect all the defects in the world, but this is pointless if you don't spend money to repair them.

Remember, it doesn't cost the FRA's budget anything to have the defects repaired - that is on the carriers.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, May 3, 2022 10:01 PM

You can test every day and detect all the defects in the world, but this is pointless if you don't spend money to repair them.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, May 3, 2022 9:54 PM

Overmod
When OIG arranges for FRA to have more money, or a better Congressional mandate to achieve (or compel) more inspections, you can get better 'related program utilization goals and track inspection reporting' or whatever.

I was at trackside a couple of nights ago and CNIC ran one of those spooky laser geometry cars by, as the first car in an otherwise-normal freight consist.  In a PSR world where nominal train lengths are routinely stretched out, adding one car to a consist is not the difficulty it used to be; this sure beats operating a regular 'extra' move, let alone an expensive separate crewed hi-rail or track geometry train, to get both an active baseline and relatively rapid detection of changing or degrading conditions.

I remember Joe describing the 'manned' equivalent, where progressive track kink occurred on the ex-New Haven over the course of a few hours and train crews reported the worsening appearance.  Modern 'computer systems' can easily manage information derived from relatively-simple scanning 'suites'... there is an ungodly amount of raw data, but fairly readily the important information can be compressed or converted for data warehousing, analysis or evaluation.

During my final years with CSX in concert with NS we routinely moved the FRA test cars to and from their maintenance facility at Fort Indiantown Gap, PA which is about 20 miles NW of Harrisburg, PA.  Cars operated on all points of CSX to the interchange a Hagerstown, MD and on NS from Hagerstown to FIG.  Seemingly we were moving a test car every week - either to FIG or from FIG.  Most of the movements did not include testing during their movements between Cumberland and Hagerstown - the train end points of their initia/final moves on CSX, I doubt they were testing on the NS between Hagerstown and FIG.  Each piece of test equipment would 'lose' at least one day of testing make the move to FIG in each direction, possibly more.  The FRA test cars would generally be directed to some point on CSX to begin testing - it could take several days for the cars to arrive at a location to be in a position to start testing.

I have no idea of how often the test cars were placed in testing routines directly from FIG when departing on NS.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, May 3, 2022 3:22 AM

When OIG arranges for FRA to have more money, or a better Congressional mandate to achieve (or compel) more inspections, you can get better 'related program utilization goals and track inspection reporting' or whatever.

I was at trackside a couple of nights ago and CNIC ran one of those spooky laser geometry cars by, as the first car in an otherwise-normal freight consist.  In a PSR world where nominal train lengths are routinely stretched out, adding one car to a consist is not the difficulty it used to be; this sure beats operating a regular 'extra' move, let alone an expensive separate crewed hi-rail or track geometry train, to get both an active baseline and relatively rapid detection of changing or degrading conditions.

I remember Joe describing the 'manned' equivalent, where progressive track kink occurred on the ex-New Haven over the course of a few hours and train crews reported the worsening appearance.  Modern 'computer systems' can easily manage information derived from relatively-simple scanning 'suites'... there is an ungodly amount of raw data, but fairly readily the important information can be compressed or converted for data warehousing, analysis or evaluation.

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OIG takes FRA to woodshed
Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, May 2, 2022 9:45 PM

The FRA has an automated track inspection program.  (ATIP). Evidently FRA is not doing enough on freight RRs.  Some of these inspections are taken by the FRA inspection cars often seen behind Amtrak trains.  ( numbers of cars "may" be between DOTX 216 - 223 ).

OIG says FRA is not following their mandate to do enough inspections.

FRA Uses Automated Track Inspections To Aid Oversight but Could Improve Related Program Utilization Goals and Track Inspection Reporting (dot.gov)

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