BaltACD There were many CNA and CPAA cars crossing the borders with little restrictions.
There were many CNA and CPAA cars crossing the borders with little restrictions.
CNA and CPAA cars were "American". These cars were universally US-built and/or acquired and not paid import duties, so under customs regulations were considered to be treated as US cars for international and US domestic service.
Regular CN and CP cars could also very well travel to the US, but had to be sent back home and shouldn't have been loaded between points in the US due to import/customs restrictions. Vice versa for US railroad cars in Canada.
Then there were the CNIS and CPI cars that under customs arrangements were supposed to ONLY be used for cross-border cargoes and not to be loaded for domestic shipments in either country.
NAFTA did change a bunch of stuff particularly around the last paragraph, and while CN left their cars in CNIS marks, CP gradually re-marked theirs from CPI to CP. There wasn't much cases of new cars delivered in those marks after that. (Although in recent years CN resurrected the "DWC" marks from subsidiary Duluth, Winnipeg & Pacific, which had been "International Service" marks in the seventies. But whatever the modern book-keeping arrangements of assigning cars to CN, DWC, WC, or GTW reporting marks, it definitely has nothing to do with country of origin/build as both Canadian and American built cars have been assigned to any mark...
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
wjstixExcept for the scanning for people, I think it's much easier to send freight across the border than in the past - before NAFTA and other trade agreements in the 1990's. It used to be a piece of equipment (boxcar, engine, etc.) from one country could only be in the other country for so many hours (24 or 36 I think?). Back in the 1970s and 80s, if you visited a CN or CP railyard in Canada, 99% of the cars were CN or CP with maybe a few US railroad's cars here and there. Now it's much more mixed.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Except for the scanning for people, I think it's much easier to send freight across the border than in the past - before NAFTA and other trade agreements in the 1990's. It used to be a piece of equipment (boxcar, engine, etc.) from one country could only be in the other country for so many hours (24 or 36 I think?). Back in the 1970s and 80s, if you visited a CN or CP railyard in Canada, 99% of the cars were CN or CP with maybe a few US railroad's cars here and there. Now it's much more mixed.
Murphy Siding I thought that x-rays could see through the soft parts to see the hard parts, like nones in a body or guns in a suitcase? How can they see things through a metal conatiner or rail car?
I thought that x-rays could see through the soft parts to see the hard parts, like nones in a body or guns in a suitcase? How can they see things through a metal conatiner or rail car?
Reasonable question.
The difference is the energy of the X-ray/gamma ray photons and how they are abosrbed by matter. The most effective absorption mechanism is "photo-electric" where the photon energy is used to kick an electron out of the atom, for organic matter (i.e. Hydrogen, Carbon and Oxygen), the photo-electric effect is gone about 5keV, for calcium figure somewhere around 30keV, iron/copper figure 80keV and lead is about 300 - 400keV. Above that, absorption is by Compton scattering, which is pretty much a function of mass passed through. Going even higher in energy brings about "pair production" which literally creates mass from energy, then "triplet production", then photo-nuclear reactions, etc.
X-ray energy is determined in large part from the energy of the electrons striking the X-ray anode, with resulting X-ray energies being lower than the initial electron energy. IIRC, dental X-ray machines use 30 to 60kV, CT machines are 100 to 250kV, truck scanners range from 3,000kV to 9,000kV, with the limit being that higher energies lead to neutron production from photo-nuclear reactions.
FWIW, a group in China had developed a scanning system that could take images of a train rolling by at 25mph. The installation consisted of a "pillar" on each side of the track, with one containing the imaging detectors and the other containing the linear accelerator driven X-ray source.
Murphy SidingHow can they see things through a metal conatiner or rail car?
I doubt you'd want to be in the way.
X-rays are used to inspect metal. IIRC, that's one way they check the boilers on steam locos.
Truck (highway) boxes are often aluminum - easy peasy for x-rays. I think the campers are sometimes fiberglas.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
SD60MAC9500 Yes Murphy any railcar, trailer or container goes through VACIS. I'm not familiar with the Xray spectrum it uses. Per a conversation years back with a CBP agent it scans for muscle density. I.e. "riders"
Yes Murphy any railcar, trailer or container goes through VACIS. I'm not familiar with the Xray spectrum it uses. Per a conversation years back with a CBP agent it scans for muscle density. I.e. "riders"
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
adkrr64 Convicted One How does that work out with lading including camera film? What is this "camera film" you speak of, and what is it used for?
Convicted One How does that work out with lading including camera film?
What is this "camera film" you speak of, and what is it used for?
cv_acr Murphy Siding A lot of lumber sold in the USA comes from Canada by rail. What's involved with getting a rail car over the border? There will be paper work for customs along with the waybill info. Not much that would be seen from the outside or an operational stand point unless Customs puts a hold on something and makes the train set it out. For many years now (can't remember if it existed before 9/11 or if it was something new after that) most border crossings also have X-ray type scanning machines to inspect trains that cross the border operated by Customs or Homeland Security. I live (on the Canadian side) in a border town and the scanners are actually on our side here, with US personnel operating them. Trains that are departing for the United States are all scanned and you can hear the radio communication between them call US Customs with their crew names and request the scan. Once they get the confirmation to proceed, they're limited to 10 MPH until the last car passes the scan. (The last bit may not be quite what you asked, as it's getting an entire train across the border, not from a single rail car perspective. The paperwork is all electronic and computerized, and they have access to that, so that's all invisible from the outside.) There is a huge amount of trade that travels in both directions across the border, so it's all pretty routine procedurally. Just fill out a few forms.
Murphy Siding A lot of lumber sold in the USA comes from Canada by rail. What's involved with getting a rail car over the border?
A lot of lumber sold in the USA comes from Canada by rail. What's involved with getting a rail car over the border?
There will be paper work for customs along with the waybill info. Not much that would be seen from the outside or an operational stand point unless Customs puts a hold on something and makes the train set it out.
For many years now (can't remember if it existed before 9/11 or if it was something new after that) most border crossings also have X-ray type scanning machines to inspect trains that cross the border operated by Customs or Homeland Security.
I live (on the Canadian side) in a border town and the scanners are actually on our side here, with US personnel operating them. Trains that are departing for the United States are all scanned and you can hear the radio communication between them call US Customs with their crew names and request the scan. Once they get the confirmation to proceed, they're limited to 10 MPH until the last car passes the scan.
(The last bit may not be quite what you asked, as it's getting an entire train across the border, not from a single rail car perspective. The paperwork is all electronic and computerized, and they have access to that, so that's all invisible from the outside.)
There is a huge amount of trade that travels in both directions across the border, so it's all pretty routine procedurally. Just fill out a few forms.
VACIS appeared after 9/11. CN's Strathroy Sub in Sarnia, ON was the first to get it as far as I know. USCBP is stationed at CN's Sarnia Yd.
CBP also watches for transients at Port Huron, MI. Trains typically get a roll by in PH as well.
Convicted OneHow does that work out with lading including camera film?
cv_acrmost border crossings also have X-ray type scanning machines to inspect trains that cross the border
How does that work out with lading including camera film?
Most military installations had a truck mounted system. Many built a pole barn that allowed them to work out of the weather. The xray truck would drive alongside the scanned vehicle.
I've heard that they located hand guns in trucks , to offer an example of the resolution of these machines. Bringing guns onto military installations is prohibited, with provisions for folks authorized to have them (ie, hunters).
I recall seeing the same type of truck at border crossings, before permanent installations were made.
Murphy SidingHigh energy X-rays or gamma rays reminds me of the X-ray glasses that used to be advertised in comic books. What would be found using these?
Whatever's not supposed to be there.
Murphy SidingI wonder if that's x-ray type scanning, or maybe infared type scanning to detect the heat from an non-paying passenger?
The system is called VACIS
https://www.leidos.com/products/vacis
Erik_Mag Murphy Siding I wonder if that's x-ray type scanning, or maybe infared type scanning to detect the heat from an non-paying passenger? Either high energy X-rays or gamma rays. I would expect that there would be a good sized exclusion zone around the scanners as there would be a lot of backscatter and side scatter.
Murphy Siding I wonder if that's x-ray type scanning, or maybe infared type scanning to detect the heat from an non-paying passenger?
I wonder if that's x-ray type scanning, or maybe infared type scanning to detect the heat from an non-paying passenger?
Either high energy X-rays or gamma rays. I would expect that there would be a good sized exclusion zone around the scanners as there would be a lot of backscatter and side scatter.
[quote user="tree68"]
I suspect that enclosed cars will likely be sealed at their departure point, possibly even by a US customs agent.
Some years ago my daughter and I flew out of Toronto to Denver. We cleared US customs in Toronto before we left.
[/quote]
U.S. Customs has used for some time, Portable truck mounted scanning equipment (X-ray? ); at some of the larger, border crossings (ie: observed at Laredo,Tx.crossings) to find illegals secreted within closed trailers.
For the railroad crsssings, they seem to use elevated platforms with agents to watch the passing trains ,to find illegals hiding on, or in those cars.
BaltACDAny sniffer dogs?
I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
MidlandMike They also scan for radioactive material at the border (at least at the US southern border).
They also scan for radioactive material at the border (at least at the US southern border).
My understanding that the Canadians were doing a lot of passive scannig as well, you might be surprised what can be picked up with a sufficiently sensitive and selective sensor.
MidlandMike Erik_Mag Murphy Siding I wonder if that's x-ray type scanning, or maybe infared type scanning to detect the heat from an non-paying passenger? Either high energy X-rays or gamma rays. I would expect that there would be a good sized exclusion zone around the scanners as there would be a lot of backscatter and side scatter. They also scan for radioactive material at the border (at least at the US southern border).
Any sniffer dogs?
CN sure moves a lot of lumber south through northeast Wisconsin on its mainline. It must be coming from Canada. And the other day a long northbound train with DPU came through; empty centerbeams from start to finish.
One thing I've noticed on the Canadian railcams is a that a lot of the containers and trailers are not seen in the US. IntraCanadian traffic. It's almost like we're on different continents.
Rick
rixflix aka Captain Video. Blessed be Jean Shepherd and all His works!!! Hooray for 1939, the all time movie year!!! I took that ride on the Reading but my Baby caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.
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