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Was Illinois Served by More Class-1 Railroads Than Any Other State?

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Posted by Sunnyland on Sunday, December 19, 2021 4:57 PM

St.  Louis did have a lot of trains, I think we were second busiest in US,  we could go anywhere without having to use Chicago. We might have had to change trains but no problems getting there. Part of that was due to Dad's pass , we could never ride the elite trains, worst trip was to FL, changed trains 3 times and had layovers of 2 hours or more. But we were in no hurry and loved riding trains anyway. Best run was joint train City of St. Louis, never had to change. They would switch our car from Wabash or N&W later at KC, to UP and then at Ogden to SP but we did not have to get off.  Mom stayed on while Dad and I got off and she would wave to us roaming around as she was being switched.  She said I came to ride a train and that is what I am doing.   Dad had to pay extra fare for that train, but at least we got to ride it. Free from St. Louis to KC but l/2 fare for the rest of trip. But not that expensive in those days.

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Posted by ns145 on Sunday, December 19, 2021 9:17 AM

BaltACD

 

 
Electroliner 1935
 
ns145
If you count UP based on the operation of through passenger trains over C&NW and MILW, then you should count GN & NP for through trains over CB&Q.  None of these were trackage rights operations.   

What about the L&N as the C&EI carried the Hummingbird into Chicago. 

 

Don't believe the L&N owned the C&EI.

 

The L&N explored merging with the C&EI in the 1960's.  They ended up buying a large enough amount of C&EI stock to block the Missouri Pacific from exercising control.  Then, MP and L&N cut a deal to split the C&EI in two, with joint ownership of the double track line north of Woodland, IL into Chicago. 

The MP briefly ran the entire railroad from 1967 to 1969.  I grew up on the C&EI Evansville line and the L&N-side guys hated the MP for ransacking the Evansville line before it was conveyed to the L&N.

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Posted by ns145 on Sunday, December 19, 2021 8:34 AM

Electroliner 1935

 

 
ns145
If you count UP based on the operation of through passenger trains over C&NW and MILW, then you should count GN & NP for through trains over CB&Q.  None of these were trackage rights operations.  

 

 

 

What about the L&N as the C&EI carried the Hummingbird into Chicago. 

The L&N was already counted as an Illinois railroad via its line to St. Louis.  The UP, GN, and NP didn't own or directly operate any lines in Illinois.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, December 18, 2021 11:17 PM

Electroliner 1935
 
ns145
If you count UP based on the operation of through passenger trains over C&NW and MILW, then you should count GN & NP for through trains over CB&Q.  None of these were trackage rights operations.   

What about the L&N as the C&EI carried the Hummingbird into Chicago. 

Don't believe the L&N owned the C&EI.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Saturday, December 18, 2021 10:53 PM

ns145
If you count UP based on the operation of through passenger trains over C&NW and MILW, then you should count GN & NP for through trains over CB&Q.  None of these were trackage rights operations.  

 

What about the L&N as the C&EI carried the Hummingbird into Chicago. 

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Posted by ns145 on Saturday, December 18, 2021 1:01 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

If you count UP based on the operation of through passenger trains over C&NW and MILW, then you should count GN & NP for through trains over CB&Q.  None of these were trackage rights operations.

 

GN/NP are listed under #4.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, December 18, 2021 10:09 AM

If you count UP based on the operation of through passenger trains over C&NW and MILW, then you should count GN & NP for through trains over CB&Q.  None of these were trackage rights operations.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Shock Control on Saturday, December 18, 2021 9:22 AM

Thanks all for the replies!  Great details!  

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Posted by ns145 on Thursday, December 16, 2021 7:15 AM

Illinois had it all:

1) All of the eastern trunks

2) All of the grangers

3) Two western transcons directly (AT&SF and MILW)

4) Three other western transcons via subsidiaries (GN/NP-CB&Q, SP-Cotton Belt)

5) Both Canadian transcons via subsidiaries (CN-GTW, CP-WC/Soo Line)

6) Two major southern carriers (L&N, SOU)

7) The southwestern carriers (MP and SSW directly, MKT and Frisco trains could be seen from the Illinois side of the Mississippi River)

6) Large terminal and switching roads (BRC, IHB, EJ&E, A&S, TRRA, and B&OCT if you want to count it seperately from parent B&O)

7) Regional Class I's (C&EI, C&IM, GM&O, IC, IT, M-I, M&StL, PM, TP&W, Monon, NKP, Wabash, etc.)

8) Oddballs - Pocahontas coal carrier C&O comes to mind.  And, after the 1964 NKP merger-Wabash lease, the N&W also served Illinois.  Plus, UP ran passenger trains to/from Chicago via arrangements with the C&NW and later MILW).

 

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, December 15, 2021 9:18 PM

Here's what I can come up with for class one railroads that have operated in Illinois.  I acknowledge some of the belt switching roads around Chicago may have qualified, but I omitted them.  I also admit that some operation may have only been a handful of miles, or by trackage rights, to access the Chicago area.  And it's also chock full of historical names. 

The list, in no particular order:

Santa Fe

B&O

C&O

GTW

Soo Line

CB&Q

CGW

C&NW

CMStP&P

CRI&P

GM&O

IC

C&EI

PRR 

NYC

L&N

Southern

Monon

Erie

NKP

Wabash

M&StL

Missouri Pacific

If you want to include operation by trackage rights, you could include the Cotton Belt.

Jeff

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, December 15, 2021 8:55 PM

Shadow the Cats owner

This should give you an idea of how many class 1 railroads served Illinois.  Streator Illinois at one point had the Santa Fe NYC CB&Q Rock Island IC Wabash GM&O all in this town at once.  

 

Rock Island pooled power on a run through trains (Gemini trains) with NYC, and later PC, that would've gone through Streator using the old Kankakee Belt (NYC).  Those trains ended in the 1970s.  Other than that, the Rock Island didn't go to Streator.  Possible detour moves excepted.  

Jeff

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, December 15, 2021 2:26 PM

BaltACD
You are overlooking the B&O operating down the Shenandoah Valley with its line from Harpers Ferry to Strasburg.

Fair enough!  I didn't know about that one!  Thanks!

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, December 15, 2021 1:42 PM

Flintlock76
Racking my brain over my current home of Virginia there was also a good representation of railroads in the old days.

The Norfolk & Western

The old Norfolk-Southern

The Southern Railway

The Chesapeake & Ohio

The Atlantic Coast Line

The Seaboard

The Virginian

The Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac

And on the Delmarva Penninsula, the Pennsylvania.

You are overlooking the B&O operating down the Shenandoah Valley with its line from Harpers Ferry to Strasburg.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, December 15, 2021 11:14 AM

Racking my brain over my current home of Virginia there was also a good representation of railroads in the old days.

The Norfolk & Western

The old Norfolk-Southern

The Southern Railway

The Chesapeake & Ohio

The Atlantic Coast Line

The Seaboard

The Virginian

The Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac

And on the Delmarva Penninsula, the Pennsylvania.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, December 15, 2021 10:11 AM

By past definitions of a Class I road, some terminal roads (BRC, IHB, TRRA) may have counted as such in Illinois.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, December 15, 2021 8:41 AM

BaltACD
Don't believe the B&O actually made it into New Jersey.

They did, both freight and passenger, but as I said with trackage rights on the Jersey Central. 

The B&O also had a fleet of NY harbor tugs that operated out of the CNJ freight yards in Jersey City and their own small yard on Staten Island.

B&O passenger service to the CNJ terminal stopped in 1958 however, as did their passenger service north of Philly. 

As I said, my list reflects the good old days.

PS:  Those tugs were beautifully painted in the B&O blue, grey, and gold color scheme!  VERY handsome vessels!

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, December 15, 2021 8:34 AM

Flintlock76
Illinois?  It's possible.

If so, New Jersey may be a close second.  Just off the top of my head I can list several that if not serving NJ directly certainly passed through it.

The New Jersey Central

The Pennsylvania

The Reading (With Jersey Central trackage rights.)

The Baltimore & Ohio (Same as above.)

The Lackawanna

The Lehigh Valley

The Lehigh & New England

The Lehigh & Hudson River

The Susquehanna

The New York Central

The New York, Ontario & Western (With NYC trackage rights.)

The Erie 

The Raritan River (A short line industrial 'road.) 

The Pennsyvania-Reading Seashore Line

Mind you, the list is from what you might call the "Glory Days," long before mergers, Conrail, and abandonments. 

Don't believe the B&O actually made it into New Jersey.  The end of B&O trackage when their trains operated between Washington and New York was B&O Park Jct (Philadelphia) RDG Bound Brook CNJ to Jersey City.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, December 15, 2021 8:28 AM

Illinois?  It's possible.

If so, New Jersey may be a close second, or might possibly beat Illinois in the "was" department.  Just off the top of my head I can list several that if not serving NJ directly certainly passed through it.

The New Jersey Central

The Pennsylvania

The Reading (With Jersey Central trackage rights.)

The Baltimore & Ohio (Same as above.)

The Lackawanna

The Lehigh Valley

The Lehigh & New England

The Lehigh & Hudson River

The Susquehanna

The New York Central  (West Shore Line)

The New York, Ontario & Western (With trackage rights on the West Shore.)

The Erie 

The Raritan River (A short line industrial 'road.) 

The Pennsyvania-Reading Seashore Line

Mind you, the list is from what you might call the "Glory Days," long before mergers, Conrail, and abandonments. 

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Wednesday, December 15, 2021 7:35 AM

Even when my husband was a child up until the Staggers act they still had BN the old CB&Q Santa Fe ICG Rock Island until 1980 using trackage rights for both of them plus the NW still served their customer and Conrail.  They had 2 major glass plants that shipped out hundreds of cars a month recieved cars plus a fertilizer plant and other plants that all shipped by rail.  

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Tuesday, December 14, 2021 11:54 PM

But will it play in Peoria?

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Posted by Shock Control on Tuesday, December 14, 2021 10:21 PM

ns145
 Peoria even rated as major gateway into the early 1960's.

https://idot.illinois.gov/transportation-system/Network-Overview/rail-system/index

 

 
The Peoria Gateway!
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Posted by ns145 on Tuesday, December 14, 2021 10:11 PM

All current 8 Class 1 railroads, including Amtrak, serve Illinois.  Missouri technically can make the same claim, but I dont believe CN currently operates any trains across the Mississippi River into St Louis proper.  Illinois is also second only to Texas in terms of railroad route miles, even though Texas is almost 5 times larger in terms of area.  Any way you look at it, Illinois is a heavy hitter in terms of rail activity.  True, most of that is due to Chicago, but even in St Louis most of the largest rail terminals are on the Illinois side of the Mississippi.  Peoria even rated as major gateway into the early 1960's.

https://idot.illinois.gov/transportation-system/Network-Overview/rail-system/index

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Posted by Shock Control on Tuesday, December 14, 2021 7:17 PM

Shadow the Cats owner
This should give you an idea of how many class 1 railroads served Illinois.  Streator Illinois at one point had the Santa Fe NYC CB&Q Rock Island IC Wabash GM&O all in this town at once.  

That must have been a great time and place to be a railfan!

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Tuesday, December 14, 2021 7:05 PM

This should give you an idea of how many class 1 railroads served Illinois.  Streator Illinois at one point had the Santa Fe NYC CB&Q Rock Island IC Wabash GM&O all in this town at once.  

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Posted by Shock Control on Tuesday, December 14, 2021 7:03 PM

tree68

A hog can travel through Chicago without changing trains, but you can't.

Chicago being the railroad hub that it was, and is, I'd say that's a safe assumption.

Perhaps another question might be if you took Chicago out of the mix, was Illinois served by more railroads than any other state?

One might also wonder what might have been if a point further west, ie, St Louis, had been the eventual railroad hub instead of Chicago.

Thank you.  My question seemed like a logical one, but I didn't know for sure.

I can tell you that I will randomly look up an old railroad on Wikipedia and look at their map.  Whether they are north, south, east or west of Illinois, many of the big ones at least went to Chicago.  

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, December 14, 2021 6:28 PM

A hog can travel through Chicago without changing trains, but you can't.

Chicago being the railroad hub that it was, and is, I'd say that's a safe assumption.

Perhaps another question might be if you took Chicago out of the mix, was Illinois served by more railroads than any other state?

One might also wonder what might have been if a point further west, ie, St Louis, had been the eventual railroad hub instead of Chicago.

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Was Illinois Served by More Class-1 Railroads Than Any Other State?
Posted by Shock Control on Tuesday, December 14, 2021 5:45 PM

Is it safe to say that, at one time, more class-1 railroads ran to or through Illinois than any other US state?  I'm also guessing that Chicago would have been the major place to switch railroads if you were traveling wide swaths of the continent.  

Any info on this?

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